IP version 6

[mattch]

What about version 5?
5 was some protocol flop from the 70's IIRC (was born in 80s!)

Anywho anyone out there using v6 yet?

I know one day its going to be a must, but 10 years ago they said by this year we would be forced now they say we still have a few years.. who knows.
i do know the last block of unallocated addresses have been distributed so no more new IPs to the RIRs.

I dabbled a bit with he.net's tunnelbroker service (as a geek i find it very cool and its free) but have heard of other similar servers, sixxs.net.

I setup a tunnel and have a few subnets allocated to me (a 64bit block and an entire 48 block of my own PUBLIC addresses!!! free!!! sweet!!!! yes!!! no nat!!!)

i find something so cool about pinging my ipv6 network devices from somewhere accross the globe, watching trace routes from another continent enter my router and travel through several other routers (the virtual ones, that is, gns3) to finally get to the destination. oh and seeing my domain for some hops in a trace route (reverse address). I have actually had dreams about packets and routes before. i need a life lol.

ahhh the im-connected feeling we all feel like we need.

just curious if anyone else is curious about it or enthusiastic as i am

The only thing that took me a bit to get to get stuck in my head was the concept of running two protocols over same line. After that became normal then everything else seemed to fall into place, email, web sites, dns, etc.

Also at first i thought subnetting hexadecimal (words? hextets? hexadecitet?) would be a nightware so i kept putting it off. In all reality its super easy.
The idea here is that, due to such an enormous address space, subnetting in v6 be less complex than v4, for example a p2p link may just use an entire 64 block, whereas in v4 you that would be a 30 bitmask to conserve space. If you get 48block you have PLENTY of space left for 64 bit blocks(a 48 block can have 65536 64bit subnets), and you can start your subnetting at :0000:: followed by :0001:: and so on. So in all actuality it is less complex than calculating a 30, 28, 28, 27 etc bitmasks in your head and counting subnets. Lets say you only get a 64 block, you subnet that into /80 blocks and still have 65536 subnets (of /80s) with almost 3 trillion host addresses per /80 subnet

Its all the same concept just a new protocol (or just a new pattern of address).

[mariushm]

I have servers in a datacenter which provides me with ipv6, i think it's a /48.

But the home isp is yet to provide it. They still have docsis 2 cable modems that would probably go crazy if they see ipv6 packets but they're gradually pulling them out and replacing with new modems.

So since i don't have at home, i'm reluctant to use it because I can't test stuff easily.

Other than this, some scrips and software I useprobably still choke on ipv6 as they store the IPs in a 32bit number in a database... stuff like that.

[shovenose]

Isn't it a long ugly address that's even more complex and hard to remember?
I'm perfectly happy with IPv4 thank you very much.
Even though if IPv6 is supported for free by my ISP and all my software TBH I don't really care, as long as I can still use IPv4 in my home LAN

[Uranium-235]

yeah, they really pissed me off when they made it six hex addresses. They should of made it six decimal addressed separated by dots. easier to remember cause you don't have to mess with hex addressing.

[mattch]

Oh yea i definitely think there will be growing pains into ipv6 but shouldn’t be THAT bad..

I have heard some ISPs are experimenting with it now, I wish mine was! I think I will be waiting a while on that one but who knows..


2620:0:1cfe:face:b00c::3 <--can you guess who's ip that is?
C15C:0D06:F00D <-- cisco dog food, www.cisco.com ip on world ipv6 day, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexspeak
face:feedead:beef:babe::

[smason]

I'm avoiding it until absolutely necessary.
We're not REALLY running out of IPV4 addresses.
A big oil company I used to work for had something like 10,000 addresses reserved.
They used them internally instead of using private (rfc 1918?) addresses even though NONE of them were externally reachable.
All of the outward facing routers had totally different addresses.

If companies weren't hoarding like this, there wouldn't be a "shortage"

People poo poo NAT but NAT works.

[mattch]

Originally Posted by smason

I'm avoiding it until absolutely necessary.
We're not REALLY running out of IPV4 addresses.
A big oil company I used to work for had something like 10,000 addresses reserved.
They used them internally instead of using private (rfc 1918?) addresses even though NONE of them were externally reachable.
All of the outward facing routers had totally different addresses.

If companies weren't hoarding like this, there wouldn't be a "shortage"

People poo poo NAT but NAT works.

See i heard the same thing that if someone can reclaim all the unused address that companies HOARDED in the beginning, or all the companies that had large allocations that went out of business, we wouldn’t have to worry about this for a while. IN IPv6 people will begin to do same thign the oil company does, use those public IPs on the LAN but block things at the edge, therefore no need for NAT.

NAT is a way of life in IPv4, its necessary, for example corporation doesnt want to purchase 2000 publics IPs for all its computer users, PAT. Many cases of VPN's where each side happen to use the same private address scheme, here NAT is useful.

With IPv6 NAT is poo poo. With such huge allocations a corp will have plenty of addresses for its users. trillions. Due to such the huge address space, there is no point to use "Private" IPv6 Address, as a matter of fact there is no such things, they do have link-local (kinda like 169.x.x.x you get when dhcp times out on windows) and site local (depreciated?) but here again i dont see point. The only point i see for link-local is for "plug-in-play" networking, a end user can plug hundreds of devices on the network and without even knowing what an IP is they can communicate but i dont see that scaling.

NAT doesnt even add security. all it does it obfuscate the real IP address of a endpoint but a hacker knows the private IP ranges so it narrows it down quite a bit. I think some people even rely on NAT for "partial security" which is poor thoughts.

Gotta have that firewall!!

[mariushm]

We're not REALLY running out of IPV4 addresses.

Unfortunately, we are running out of them. There are about 0.5-1% of IPs still not allocated.

Yes, it's true that about 10-15% of all IPs are still allocated to companies that are long gone or that don't really need so many of them but you can forget about taking them back. They're considered by these companies "property" and nobody will give them away easily.

We had Microsoft recently buying 666k of IPs from Nortel for around 11.25$ per IP : http://slashdot.org/story/11/03/24/2...0-ip-addresses

And we're not even there yet, there are still free IPs you can receive with some difficulty. The prices are going to go up easily.

But... even if these 10-15% of IPs are retrieved some way... you're only going to extend the inevitable... we're running out of IPs. Those 10-15% are only going to run out in about 10-15 years.

My own datacenter receives a set of about 2k IPs from IANA or whoever assigns them.. they project they'll use them in 3 months - and this is a single datacenter.

You see, due to security reasons, virtual lans for each server in datacenter, https for websites, each dedicated server needs a minimum of 3 ips - mine received 5 after I provided justification for them, and I actually use 4 (one is mail server, one is for a ftp server, one is a website with https etc)

Dedicated servers are not even the biggest IP demanding devices - mobile phones are. Just do the math how many iPhones were sold and how many are at some point connected at the internet, and how many smart phones are sold all with internet connections ... you can only go so far with DHCP and sharing of IPs.

And in 10-15 years, who knows what's going to happen - you have 1.5 billion people on earth, about half of them with a 10-30$ phone always connected to the internet, with a computer always running at home, with smart electricity meters reporting the consumption through internet, with god knows what other devices always online.

Yes, IPv6 is way better in the sense that a person is supposed to get a /48 assigned for life or something like that, so the devices he has receive an IP automatically from the router he has in the house, the ipv4 to ipv6 works automatically ... I don't think it's going to work like this in real life though.

[shovenose]

Well, see, I'm on my computer tethered to my phone, in the bus. Using 1 IPv4 address.
My IP is 166.191.245.249
Now, there's no way I could remember that easily because AFAIK it's dynamic, not static. However, it's fairly easy to memorize if I look at it over and over day after day.
(then again Twitter was hosted from an IBM ThinkPad using a Verizon 3G broadband card at the beginning)...
Now, with IPv6, my IP would be something like (for example) 2001:0db8:85a3:0000:0000:8a2e:0370:7334
And how the heck am I supposed to remember that??
Sure, it's obvious a lot more combinations are available, so my IP addresses, but I'm not looking forward to remembering that!

[mariushm]

Why would you remember numbers? That's what domain names and aliases are for.

Buy a 10$ a year domain and create subdomains for each ip you have... home.shovenose.com , phone.shovenose.com , caralarm.shovenose.com , catdoor.shovenose.com , playstation5.shovenose.com etc...

It doesn't make sense to remember numbers, as they can change. I'm sure you don't remember the phone numbers of all your friends, you just go in the address book or contact list or whatever, select them and press call. I'm sure at least one of your friends changed their phone number at some point - how would your brain work if you had to remember another phone number for each of your friends?

As I said, ideally each person receives a /48 ... so you have 2^31 unique ipv6 ips assigned to you... if you really want to remember numbers, it should be relatively as only the last digits will change.

[mattch]

Originally Posted by mariushm

Yes, IPv6 is way better in the sense that a person is supposed to get a /48 assigned for life or something like that, so the devices he has receive an IP automatically from the router he has in the house, the ipv4 to ipv6 works automatically ... I don't think it's going to work like this in real life though.

I do have a good feeling about the auto-config of IPs via RA's but just wondring what security concerns arrise from that

As far as the automatic ipv4 to ipv6 vice versa, that is the one thing that i think people (ISPs) will have constant issues or at least require constant maintenance.

I have heard about the relays which rely on anycast addresses, 192.88.99.1, i know for fact there are relays in the USA and out of curiousity i trace route that and it sends me to denmark!

im still a little hazzy on the all of the transition methods (6to4, 6over4, teredo, yadda yadda.) I hear there is a method using NAT, sounds messy to me.

I find the easiest, less complex and most reliable method is a dual stack approach (w/ tunneling if v6 is not offered native by ISP) K.I.S.S.

Personally i cant wait till my ISP offers IPv6 and i hope its a dual stack when they do it. If not, and they only start providing v6 then im curious how they will handle transition from v6 to v4.

I have a feeling the transition period is going to be a long and brutal one as a whole, just imagine how many legacy devices are out there and the cost of replacement, all the ISP and backbone equipement, large enterprises etc . This sounds contradicting to my previous statment when i said the growing pains shouldnt be that BAD. To clearify i think transition on an individule basis shouldnt be THAT bad, but as a whole, as in the whole internet, there will be some major pains in keeping everyone happy and connected at the same time. There is no way everyone can do this over night, or even with a years period of time

I predict at least 10-20 years v4 and v6 will coexist together until v4 slowly dies off (kinda like modems lol still a few stragglers remaining).

[mattch]

Originally Posted by shovenose

Well, see, I'm on my computer tethered to my phone, in the bus. Using 1 IPv4 address.
My IP is 166.191.245.249
Now, there's no way I could remember that easily because AFAIK it's dynamic, not static. However, it's fairly easy to memorize if I look at it over and over day after day.
(then again Twitter was hosted from an IBM ThinkPad using a Verizon 3G broadband card at the beginning)...
Now, with IPv6, my IP would be something like (for example) 2001:0db8:85a3:0000:0000:8a2e:0370:7334
And how the heck am I supposed to remember that??
Sure, it's obvious a lot more combinations are available, so my IP addresses, but I'm not looking forward to remembering that!

4377:15415E:A5EDead:beef:b100:

mariushm is right, that is the point of DNS, and the only "randomness" you need to remember is your network allocation, or "network" portion of address which is usually only 3 or 4 hexadecitets
Contact list - a (local) DNS for phone numbers LOL


I actually find it easier than IPv4
2001b8:1234:abcd::/64
2001b8:1234:abcd::beef:face
2001b8:1234:abcd::bad:c0de
2001b8:1234:abcd::B1:A2ED:babe
http://www.nsftools.com/tips/HexWords.htm - a list of easy to use words in your ipv6 address

[mockingbird]

IPV6 should be opposed at all costs... It has nothing to do with providing more IP addresses and has everything to do with online intrusion by foreign entities. IPV4 will never exhaust all of its addresses, it's just that there are small countries which receive massive IP blocks they will never use, and the refusal to implement IPV4 NAT (Which would make the amount of IPV4 addresses virtually unlimited) that has fooled the public into thinking that we need IPV6...

[mariushm]

As usual mockingbird with his stupid remarks. You're not at war anymore with any country but yourselves (pointless drug wars and made up wars like the ones in Iraq/Afghanistan).

Each country has every right to request as many IPs as they need - the Internet is not an American property, it's global.

NAT is an afterthought, it was not in the standard and the Internet was not designed to work with NAT - each computer connected to the Internet was supposed to have one global IP...
Nothing will stop you from doing NAT with IPv6, it's implemented in the standard, but simply having a NAT does NOT make computers more secure and prevent "intrusions".

IPv4 will exhaust all addresses. There are basically 2^32 addresses possible, because the IP is 4 bytes long. This means there's a total of 4,294,967,296 IPs possible, from which only about 3.8 billion or maybe even less are usable. Remember, each first and last IP from a x.x.x.# class are not usable and several large IP classes are reserved for various things and the internet as we know it would break if they are reclaimed...

There are over 7 billion people in the world right now, out of which probably fewer than a billion have used the Internet....

US has 250 million people, China has 1.1 billion or about 15% of the population - who are you to say they don't deserve 4 times as many IPs than US?

But anyway, if each had an internet connected device, we'd be out of 25% of all the IPs possible.
A lot of people have more than one device. Some have a computer at home, one at work, one smart phone.

Each dedicated server, in order to be secure needs at least 3 IPs to form a private vlan.
Then each website that has an online store needs a dedicated IP to implement SSL (encryption, security). You wouldn't want to "intruders" to steal your credit card information, right?
There are more websites out there than people using the internet, and if it wasn't for HTTP 1.1 implementing virtual hosts (a sort of equivalent for NAT), we would have been out of IPs a long time ago.
There's about 200 million domain names sold (2010ish) and add to that probably a billion of sub-domains.


It doesn't stop there:
you will have smart gas meters with their own ip,
smart electricity meters,
your home alarm will have its ip,
your car will have an IP to download updates for the internal software automatically

[mockingbird]

Originally Posted by mariushm

As usual mockingbird with his stupid remarks. You're not at war anymore with any country but yourselves (pointless drug wars and made up wars like the ones in Iraq/Afghanistan).

We have seen what is becoming of "wonderful" Europe with the liberal drug policies.

Regarding Iraq/Afghanistan, I always said there was no point in going there, Iraq had nothing and I knew it before the war, and I've always held that Iran was the problem all along, as we are seeing today.

I'm willing to concede that I haven't researched IPV6 enough, and the comment I made was based on some technical satire I watched which I thought was actually seriously attacking IPV6.

[ratdude747]

Both of you: take the personal stuff (drug wars, Afghanistan, etc.) elsewhere; this is a technical thread in a technical forum, and it shall stay that way.

[mattch]

Originally Posted by mockingbird

IPV6 should be opposed at all costs... It has nothing to do with providing more IP addresses and has everything to do with online intrusion by foreign entities. IPV4 will never exhaust all of its addresses, it's just that there are small countries which receive massive IP blocks they will never use, and the refusal to implement IPV4 NAT (Which would make the amount of IPV4 addresses virtually unlimited) that has fooled the public into thinking that we need IPV6...

What ever that is you have i want some ..