Sceptre X22 WG Gamer With Replaced Caps Turns off after 5-10 minutes

[motzilla]

Thanks kc8adu and Bobdee.

I'm a little worried about the size. I can't seem to find an exact match but I may not need to. It seems there will be enough clearance for the 20mm in regards to the height of the 470uf25v to fit in there (see pic), but I'm a little worried about the width as 10mm is the smallest I'm seeing on the sites; the ones in there right now are 8mm. Plus the my searches have been turning up caps with a 5mm pitch and these are 3.5mm.. do you think I'd be able to make that work?

Here's the breakdown - (w) x (h) x (p)
470uF 25v KF 105*c = 8mm x 16mm x 3.5mm (black)
1000uf 16v 105*c (HF)P = 10mm x 20mm x 5mm (green)
33uf 35v GL 105*c= 5mm x 7mm x 3mm (purple)

more pics just in case.

[Logos077]

Sorry That I have been out for a while. Here is my parts list from digikey:
digikey# 493-1575-ND, mft# UE1V330MDD CAP 33uf 35v Elect HE Radial
digikey# P12388-ND, manufactures# CAP 470uf 25v ELECT FM Radial

Hope this helps.

[motzilla]

thx logos, I replaced the caps on the board and my monitor works great again!!! thanks you all for your help.

I'm posting pics of getting into the case in case others need to do the same... since the recommendation from Spectre tech was to "buy a new one" when I called asking for a quote to repair it.

Here are the pics. Keep in mind this was my first time attempting something like this so I'm not sure if this is the best process but it worked for me.

Cheers.


EDIT: when I uploaded the pics it rearranged the order. Just look at the filename to get the correct order. 01-10 then parts list..

[borgware]

Thank you Motzilla I really appreciate your help.
However, part #p12389-nd isn't going to be available until Jan 11, 2010 so do you know if there is any alternative to this capacitor?

Thank you.

P.S.

Great forum guys. Wish I knew about it earlier.

[PlainBill]

Originally Posted by borgware

Thank you Motzilla I really appreciate your help.
However, part #p12389-nd isn't going to be available until Jan 11, 2010 so do you know if there is any alternative to this capacitor?

Thank you.

P.S.

Great forum guys. Wish I knew about it earlier.

If it will fit into the available space, try P12388-ND. If dimensions are critical, try P10274-ND.

PlainBill

[borgware]

Originally Posted by PlainBill

If it will fit into the available space, try P12388-ND. If dimensions are critical, try P10274-ND.

PlainBill

Thank you for quick reply Bill.
P12388 seems to be too fat (10mm) and P10274 has "only" 2000 hours of lifetime. I play games a lot so I would feel much safer with 4000+ hours.

What do you think about Nichicon #493-1552-ND?

[PCBONEZ]

Lifetime doesn't mean what you think it does.

Do you honestly think they make caps that only last 83.3 days?
And caps that last only 166.7 days would be oh so much better!

The proper name is "Endurance Lifetime".
It is how long you can put every parameter at absolute max and NOT do any damage to the cap.
- It does not even relate to how long the cap will last.
Yeah, you can make some assumptions and do some math using some equation and estimate Useful Lifetime using Endurance Lifetime as an input but the equations are only +/- 40% accurate.
If your math says 7 years it means the useful lifetime is "anywhere from 4.2 to 9.8 years". - Pretty much meaningless.
-
From a practical standpoint Endurance Lifetime is a useless number so don't waste you time stressing over it.
[There is equipment where that number matters but not in PC's. If a cap in a PC gets anywhere near the conditions required to 'start the clock' on Endurance Lifetime the system will have already crashed. The rail the cap is on would have to be at the caps rated voltage. The 12v rail would have to be at 16v -or- the other rails [5v or 3.3v] at 6.3v or 10v to 'start the timer'.]
-

The Ripple rating is a much better indicator of how 'heavy duty' the cap is.
The Ripple number is how much Ripple the cap can handle without overheating internally so it's much the same as a wattage rating on a resistor.

~~~~~

The caps filter noise out of DC power.
The caps could give'a shit less if you game.
The load [watts] on the DC power is not a load on the caps, only the noise is.
If you managed to pump 500 amps through your +12v rail the cap wouldn't even care.
- That 500 amps isn't going ~THROUGH~ the cap, only the Ripple is.

- ESR is the only thing that's going to affect system stability.
- Lower ESR = Less noise in the power = more stable.

~~~~~

- It's Ripple and ESR and 'will it fit' you should be worrying about when choosing replacements.

470uF 25v Capxon KF series in 8mm does not exist in the datasheet.
[Probably a custom ordered cap. They do that.]
The best 8mm in the KF datasheet is 8x16mm and has Ripple / ESR of: 620 / 0.190

The FC [P10274-ND] has Ripple / ESR of: 995 / 0.065 and is a good upgrade.
The HE [493-1552-ND] has Ripple / ESR of: 1050 / 0.069 and is a bigger upgrade.

~~
Capxon KF series is weird.
Many need at least Panasonic FM to match Ripple & ESR but others are fine being replaced by an FC.
I think it's due to KF's odd lengths for whatever uF you are looking at.
The series only has one 8x16mm and ALL the rest of the 8mm are 8x11.5mm no matter what uF or volts are.
.

[Logos077]

Glad to help. Mine has been working well for 2weeks and counting!! :P

[borgware]

Do you honestly think they make caps that only last 83.3 days?

Yes. JK, that's why I said "only" 2000 hours.

My concern was exactly endurance 'cause I live in Arizona and I don't have to tell you how good environment is for capacitors.

The HE [493-1552-ND] has Ripple / ESR of: 1050 / 0.069 and is a bigger upgrade.

Does bigger means better?

Anyway, thank you for detailed answer and as a newbie I've found it quite informative.

[motzilla]

really good info there PCBONEZ, thx.

@ borgware: I would go with P12388-ND then. I only got the 89's cause they were in stock at the time and had the same specs (minus the longer lifetime which turns out to be moot thx to PCBONEZ's info) Plus Logos077 used those in his recap.

[PCBONEZ]

Ripple is usually given in amps or mA. - More is better.

ESR is usually given in ohms.
Sometimes data sheets say impedance instead of ESR which boils down to Xc+ESR,,
,, but it is usually "impedance at 100 kHz". [100 kHz is a standardized number.]
At 100 kHz or lower frequencies Xc is so near zero that it can be ignored.
-
Less ESR is better.
It's the resistance to noise [ripple] being 'filtered to' or 'sent to' ground.


100 kHz is used in most data sheets because most SMPS [Switch Mode Power Supply] create Ripple Noise of about 100 kHz as a side effect of how they work.

Some caps are rated at 100 Hz or 120 Hz which is ~the ripple typically found in a Linear PSU. [2x line frequency which is 50 or 60 Hz depending on where you live.]

.

[borgware]

Originally Posted by motzilla

really good info there PCBONEZ, thx.

@ borgware: I would go with P12388-ND then. I only got the 89's cause they were in stock at the time and had the same specs (minus the longer lifetime which turns out to be moot thx to PCBONEZ's info) Plus Logos077 used those in his recap.

OK P12388-ND is on the way I am about to recap something for the first time. I will let you know if I turn Scottsdale into Chernobyl.

[borgware]

IT WORKS!!
Thank you guys (motzilla, pcbonez, logos077, plain Bill) for everything.
I got to improve my soldering skills but I'm running out of broken monitors.

[PCBONEZ]

Originally Posted by borgware

OK P12388-ND is on the way I am about to recap something for the first time. I will let you know if I turn Scottsdale into Chernobyl.

Oh don't do that.
I got tired of Canary Suits in the navy.
.

[PCBONEZ]

And CONGRATS!

- Not that hard is it!


..
I need to correct and earlier statement.
>> At 100 kHz or lower frequencies Xc is so near zero that it can be ignored. <<
That's kind'a backwards.
At 100 kHz or lower frequencies Xc is so *HIGH* that it can be ignored.
- Because of that the current due to it is so near zero that it can be ignored.
.
In regards to total Impedance ESR & Ripple act like Parallel Resistors.
With a small and large resistor in parallel the small one [ESR] has the most affect on current.

[waltdwarnick]

I replaced the four caps (all bunched together) with Part #"P12388-ND CAP 470UF 25V ELECT FM RADIAL", from Digikey. It fixed the problem of my Sceptre X22 gamer, monitor now powers up and works. I have four extra caps if someone needs them.
Walt

[thunder1]

Also done repairing my Sceptre X22 gamer! Thanks to all the readily available expertise!

[mmcalli]

Having read over this thread prompted me to try resurecting my Sceptre X22 monitor that served me faithfully for a several years. Placing my order for less than $10 including shipping. If it works--perhaps I'll head to Vegas Thanks to those that have provided this valluable information.

[PlainBill]

Originally Posted by mmcalli

Having read over this thread prompted me to try resurecting my Sceptre X22 monitor that served me faithfully for a several years. Placing my order for less than $10 including shipping. If it works--perhaps I'll head to Vegas Thanks to those that have provided this valluable information.

The skills don't translate. Anyone with a little knowledge, logical thought and soldering skills can fix a monitor. Las Vegas requires luck and the ability to count cards.

PlainBill

[crockey]

Wanted to give everyone on this thread a big thank you. My Sceptre Naga X20WG started flashing with the power as described by most. Sure enough, several caps are bloated so I've ordered new ones. This thread saved me from having to drop one or two hundred bucks for a new monitor.

Thanks everyone!!!

Chad