Re: The GOOD Capacitors Thread!!

[HexaPro]

OST RLA Fail after 2 years on MSI P31 Neo VRM. It's all bulging and leaked from below, making constant reboot in Windows. My customer still got one more MSI P31 Neo and i think i should prepare a replacement caps for the VRM too.

Replaced it with X-CON ULR Polymer and it run like new again. Is X-CON is a good brand? It only has Polymer though, no Electrolytic.

I think OST are more fragile if it's used for VRM. Had 2 dead 4+ years ASRock board full with OST and now the board seem got something shorted, the PSU won't run and will make a "short buzz like" sound every time i press the power button. Seen an ECS board still running after 5+ years though, i believe it has OST too. But i won't put OST in my white list.

Is Samxon good? What type is the good one? Which one to consider when choosing a durable cap; High Ripple or High Lifetime? Isn't High Ripple will make High Lifetime too?

[kc8adu]

Re: The GOOD Capacitors Thread!!

moved to its own thread.
btw some series of samxon are very reliable.at least in vrm grade stuff.no reported issues with the samxon x-cons.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: The GOOD Capacitors Thread!!

OST RLA Fail after 2 years on MSI P31 Neo VRM. It's all bulging and leaked from below, making constant reboot in Windows. My customer still got one more MSI P31 Neo and i think i should prepare a replacement caps for the VRM too.

OST have always been a problem.
Pretty common on Asus, MSI, Biostar and some smaller brand boards -WAY- after they were known to be a problem.
I think those brands use OST deliberately hoping the board fails just after the warranty is up.

I think OST are more fragile if it's used for VRM.

OST = Cheap crap. - Anywhere, not just in VRM.
They have a habit of failing with no bloating at all so they should be replaced 'on sight' to avoid future problems.

Replaced it with X-CON ULR Polymer and it run like new again. Is X-CON is a good brand? It only has Polymer though, no Electrolytic.

X-CON is Samxon's polymer product line.
Haven't heard of any problems and wouldn't expect any.

Is Samxon good? What type is the good one?

I'd trust GD, GC, RS series. [RS series for PSUs.]
Some of the others [2 or 3 series, I never remember which] have had issues in things like TVs and LCD screens.
Most of the others aren't 'seen' often enough to have any idea how good they are.

Which one to consider when choosing a durable cap; High Ripple or High Lifetime? Isn't High Ripple will make High Lifetime too?

The 'Lifetime' you see in data sheets doesn't have ANYTHING to do with how long they last. The correct full term is "Endurance Lifetime" although some brands call it "Load Life". It is how many hours the cap can be abused with max volts, max temp, max ripple, at rated frequency WITHOUT the cap going out of spec when returned to nominal conditions. [It's an 'at least this long' number and it's the same number for the whole series.]
- It does NOT tell you how long the cap will last [stay in spec] in normal use after the abuse period.
---
There is an equation that can be used to estimate "Useful Lifetime" from "Endurance Lifetime" but there are so many variables that are ranges [vice a solid number] that the result is also a range [+/-40%].
So, if the math says 8 years it really means 8 +/- 3.2 years.
I dunno about you but to me "somewhere between 4.8 and 11.2 years" doesn't tell me anything useful.
-- In other words the "Lifetime" number is essentially useless unless you are an engineer designing for some application with harsh operating conditions.
~~
~~
The Ripple Current rating tells you how much Ripple Current the cap can handle without overheating internally.
- THAT is useful information.
[It is very much like the watts rating for a resistor or the current rating on a piece of wire.]
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: The GOOD Capacitors Thread!!

LOL - I just now looked at your pics.
-
Those little short buggers in Vcore should be replaced with solid polymer.
Due to the available sizes in good bands of lytics [meaning lack of in cans that short with ESR that low] that is the only practical way to avoid height problems -and- keep the ESR low enough.
.

[HexaPro]

Re: The GOOD Capacitors Thread!!

moved to its own thread.
btw some series of samxon are very reliable.at least in vrm grade stuff.no reported issues with the samxon x-cons.

Yup, beside the only 8mm diameter x 8mm height cap that would fit under the CPU fan is 4V 1.000uF X-CON ULR.

I think those brands use OST deliberately hoping the board fails just after the warranty is up.

Haha... You're probably right BONEZ

OST = Cheap crap. - Anywhere, not just in VRM.
They have a habit of failing with no bloating at all so they should be replaced 'on sight' to avoid future problems.

Like i said, i won't put them in my whitelist. And if i found a board with OST on it i would for sure be cautious and prepare to have a replacement caps for that board.

X-CON is Samxon's polymer product line.
Haven't heard of any problems and wouldn't expect any.

I thought it's another brand and not Samxon product line.

I'd trust GD, GC, RS series. [RS series for PSUs.]
Some of the others [2 or 3 series, I never remember which] have had issues in things like TVs and LCD screens.
Most of the others aren't 'seen' often enough to have any idea how good they are.

Thanks for the info, i appreciate it.

The 'Lifetime' you see in data sheets doesn't have ANYTHING to do with how long they last. The correct full term is "Endurance Lifetime" although some brands call it "Load Life". It is how many hours the cap can be abused with max volts, max temp, max ripple, at rated frequency WITHOUT the cap going out of spec when returned to nominal conditions. [It's an 'at least this long' number and it's the same number for the whole series.]
- It does NOT tell you how long the cap will last [stay in spec] in normal use after the abuse period.
---
There is an equation that can be used to estimate "Useful Lifetime" from "Endurance Lifetime" but there are so many variables that are ranges [vice a solid number] that the result is also a range [+/-40%].
So, if the math says 8 years it really means 8 +/- 3.2 years.
I dunno about you but to me "somewhere between 4.8 and 11.2 years" doesn't tell me anything useful.
-- In other words the "Lifetime" number is essentially useless unless you are an engineer designing for some application with harsh operating conditions.
~~
~~
The Ripple Current rating tells you how much Ripple Current the cap can handle without overheating internally.
- THAT is useful information.
[It is very much like the watts rating for a resistor or the current rating on a piece of wire.]
.

So the conclusion is Ripple Current is the most important aspect for durability, since less ripple = less heat, less heat = more lifetime right?

LOL - I just now looked at your pics.
-
Those little short buggers in Vcore should be replaced with solid polymer.
Due to the available sizes in good bands of lytics [meaning lack of in cans that short with ESR that low] that is the only practical way to avoid height problems -and- keep the ESR low enough.
.

Yup, the only 8mm diameter x 8mm height cap that would fit under the CPU fan is 4V 1.000uF X-CON ULR.

[HexaPro]

Re: The GOOD Capacitors Thread!!

Anyway, how come my post got outside the thread?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: The GOOD Capacitors Thread!!

Anyway, how come my post got outside the thread?

Where you posted is intended to be a reference thread for good caps.
That's not what your topic is so I asked the mods to give this it's own thread.

So the conclusion is Ripple Current is the most important aspect for durability, since less ripple = less heat, less heat = more lifetime right?

Kind'a.
The circuit will have -some- about of Ripple in it.
If original cap is rated for [say] 1500 mA of Ripple then you should assume the design engineer was expecting -up to- 1500 mA of Ripple.
What you don't want to do is get a cap rated for less Ripple than the original because your replacement may over heat and that will shorten it's life.
.
If you stick a cap rated for 1000 mA of Ripple in a circuit that actually has 1500 mA of ripple the cap will overheat internally and it isn't going to last long. What it's Endurance rating is simply won't matter because the Endurance rating assumes the caps temp rating is not exceeded.
.

Also note:
- A caps life is reduced by 1/2 for every 10C rise in temp.
[That applies to both Endurance and Expected life as they are proportional.]
---
105C cap with Endurance of 2000 hrs.
At 105C = 2000 hrs
At 95C = 4000 hrs
At 85C = 8000 hrs
At 75C = 16000 hrs
At 65C = 32000 hrs
At 55C = 64000 hrs
--
85C cap with with Endurance of 2000 hrs.
At 85C = 2000 hrs
At 75C = 4000 hrs
At 65C = 8000 hrs
At 55C = 16000 hrs
---
Even though the Endurance is the same the 85C cap's life will be 1/4 as long at any temp.
Never buy 85C caps. They just aren't worth it.
.