Average lifespan of a polymer capacitor?

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Average lifespan of a polymer capacitor?

Since polymers don't have a liquid electrolyte to evaporate, boil or expand with elevated temp, what is the failure mechanism. Does the conductive polymer break down, become more resistive, and cook itself to Hades?

[theOracle]

Re: Average lifespan of a polymer capacitor?

well one thing I would like to add, is that most of the time I see people pointing to so called "polymer" capacitors, they are really looking at surface mount aluminum electrolytics, just modern ones, not the typical radial can of old style, and those are sealed better, but can still fail, you bet!

[brethin]

Re: Average lifespan of a polymer capacitor?

The (reliable and proven specs) for a cap matter more than anything. Just going with a brand can leave you paying more and getting less if you don't know what you are buying. Solid Polymers tend to last longer than electrolytic due to design and being the next generation per say.

Any cap misused or abused will fail, but for a general standard (used correctly in the circuit) Polys will last longer than Electrolytic only because they are designed to do so.

Sorry pardner, but that's as silly as saying what brand of car you buy has no effect on reliability!

but in reality, the brand of car and capacitor you buy has everything to do with reliability and durability!

There are Lexus's, Hondas, Subarus, Acuras, Toyotas and Infinitis at one extreme if you like to never see your mechanic, and Dodge, Ford, Land Rover, Jaguar and Chrysler's for you folks who like to have your car fixed on a regular basis.

In the capacitor world, pretty much the same story, just a different set of Japanese names at the top! - and as far "paying more"? - I don't think that 10 cents for the finest low-ESR 10uF 50V cap made is gonna break me, ya see, I've got that kinda cash!

I never said brand had no effect. If you read what I said again it says "The (reliable and proven specs) for a cap matter more than anything".

[KKvantas]

Re: Average lifespan of a polymer capacitor?

well one thing I would like to add, is that most of the time I see people pointing to so called "polymer" capacitors, they are really looking at surface mount aluminum electrolytics, just modern ones, not the typical radial can of old style, and those are sealed better, but can still fail, you bet!

If they don't have vents are they most likely solid?
Also, does anyone know anything about APAQ?

[Wester547]

Re: Average lifespan of a polymer capacitor?

well one thing I would like to add, is that most of the time I see people pointing to so called "polymer" capacitors, they are really looking at surface mount aluminum electrolytics, just modern ones, not the typical radial can of old style, and those are sealed better, but can still fail, you bet!

There are different types of polymers too. There are the truly solid, conductive polymers that have no liquid electrolyte at all nor any safety vents. There are also the hybrid/functional types which have very, very little liquid. Then there are the "organic" polymers which are more an intermingling of electrolytics and polymers, with enough water content to still be able to bloat, hence the safety vents. The lacquer-coated SMD capacitors you speak of and even the radial types (such as the older Nichicon HD, Nichicon HC, or Rubycon ZL variants, to my knowledge) are just electrolytics without their sleeves, really. True solid polymers, assuming they are not of the very seldom-exploding kind like some early Sanyo OSCONs were, to my knowledge, don't have any liquid to dry up so they are far more resistant to heat and can last much longer than even non-aqueous lytics under torturous conditions. "Average" lifespan depends heavily upon usage and conditions.

Also, avoid APAQ polymers like the plague.

[mariushm]

Re: Average lifespan of a polymer capacitor?

Apaq is heavily used by Asus.

Considering the volume of motherboards and other hardware sold, it's hard to say they're bad and i consider advices like "avoid like the plague" a bit hard to take seriously.

ps. Though, Asustor (the asus storage division) uses Capxon polymers : http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...AS-302T/5.html

[KKvantas]

Re: Average lifespan of a polymer capacitor?

Apaq is heavily used by Asus.

Considering the volume of motherboards and other hardware sold, it's hard to say they're bad and i consider advices like "avoid like the plague" a bit hard to take seriously.

ps. Though, Asustor (the asus storage division) uses Capxon polymers : http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...AS-302T/5.html

There are different types of polymers too. There are the truly solid, conductive polymers that have no liquid electrolyte at all nor any safety vents. There are also the hybrid/functional types which have very, very little liquid. Then there are the "organic" polymers which are more an intermingling of electrolytics and polymers, with enough water content to still be able to bloat, hence the safety vents. The lacquer-coated SMD capacitors you speak of and even the radial types (such as the older Nichicon HD, Nichicon HC, or Rubycon ZL variants, to my knowledge) are just electrolytics without their sleeves, really. True solid polymers, assuming they are not of the very seldom-exploding kind like some early Sanyo OSCONs were, to my knowledge, don't have any liquid to dry up so they are far more resistant to heat and can last much longer than even non-aqueous lytics under torturous conditions. "Average" lifespan depends heavily upon usage and conditions.

Also, avoid APAQ polymers like the plague.

Shit. What should I do with my Asus board if they have Apaqs?

[mariushm]

Re: Average lifespan of a polymer capacitor?

Again... as I think I've already told you one before, nothing. Leave it be.

Stop getting all paranoid just because some guy on a forum is a fanboy of other brands or had some bad experience with a particular motherboard.

You don't even know why he says to avoid them... I could just as well tell you to avoid any other brand. You should always ask and he should provide a justification/explanation for his recommendation.

[brethin]

Re: Average lifespan of a polymer capacitor?

Again... as I think I've already told you one before, nothing. Leave it be.

Stop getting all paranoid just because some guy on a forum is a fanboy of other brands or had some bad experience with a particular motherboard.

You don't even know why he says to avoid them... I could just as well tell you to avoid any other brand. You should always ask and he should provide a justification/explanation for his recommendation.

^ 100% correct.

[Wester547]

Re: Average lifespan of a polymer capacitor?

I didn't say APAQ polymers were the worst out there, just that c_hegge and I have not had great experiences with them on ASUS motherboards. They have been known to explode. If your motherboard hasn't had many power on hours you might get away with keeping them. I didn't mean to scare anyone. Just because they have such a huge volume of them sold, like Lelon, does not make them great, even in polymer form. I think a Japanese polymer or even lytic would last rather longer...

[KKvantas]

Re: Average lifespan of a polymer capacitor?

I didn't say APAQ polymers were the worst out there, just that c_hegge and I have not had great experiences with them on ASUS motherboards. They have been known to explode. If your motherboard hasn't had many power on hours you might get away with keeping them. I didn't mean to scare anyone. Just because they have such a huge volume of them sold, like Lelon, does not make them great, even in polymer form. I think a Japanese polymer or even lytic would last rather longer...

My board is about half a month old and the computer isn't usually on at night except during downloads. How long is a "long" time for a cap to last? Will I probably not care about the board anymore by when they've died?

[KKvantas]

Re: Average lifespan of a polymer capacitor?

Again... as I think I've already told you one before, nothing. Leave it be.

Stop getting all paranoid just because some guy on a forum is a fanboy of other brands or had some bad experience with a particular motherboard.

You don't even know why he says to avoid them... I could just as well tell you to avoid any other brand. You should always ask and he should provide a justification/explanation for his recommendation.

I'm sorry
You did tell me this before but like I said in that thread I always get really paranoid about the quality of caps because I've had lots of bad experiences with awful capacitors in power supplies and graphics cards.

[mariushm]

Re: Average lifespan of a polymer capacitor?

I'm sorry
You did tell me this before but like I said in that thread I always get really paranoid about the quality of caps because I've had lots of bad experiences with awful capacitors in power supplies and graphics cards.

Stop buying the cheapest shit then and you'll be fine.

My board is about half a month old and the computer isn't usually on at night except during downloads. How long is a "long" time for a cap to last? Will I probably not care about the board anymore by when they've died?

We're talking years. By the time something fails, you will probably already buy two new computers.

Capacitors are rated in hours at a particular temperature. That means that the manufacturer estimates that after so many hours with the capacitor at that temperature, the capacitor will still have the performance within some acceptable limits.

Polymer capacitors are usually rated for 1000h or 2000h @ 105c - that means the capacitor may be a bit bad but still functional if it stays at 105c for 2000 hours, the motherboard or whatever you have should still work even then.
In real world, the capacitor is almost never at 105c, but rather 50-60c if they're near a heatsink or if there's lots of energy going through them.

So most manufacturers say that for each 10c decrease in temperature, they estimate that rating to double. So a 2000h@105c is 4000h@95c, 8000h@85c, 16000h@75c, 32000h@65c and so on.

A year has 8760 hours and you're not going to run your computer 24/7 so you have nothing to worry about.

I run my computer 24/7, only restarting it for Windows updates. I'm not worried. In 2-3 years I'm going to upgrade to a newer computer anyway, but even so I can bet you any money that the capacitors on the components I have in the system will be just fine even then.

[Behemot]

Re: Average lifespan of a polymer capacitor?

X-CON polymers are of top quality. Actually, Man Yue's estimate says they are No. 4 in polymer production and No. 1 in wet electrolytics production, worldwide, quantity wise.

Yet there exist very bad polymers, there is already a few threads here about it. What about the Enesol Enecap, do we have some updated information about them? They should be in use for some three years now, that's probably when Seasonic started using them with the X golden PSU model line.