Behringer eurorack UB222FX-PRO power supply

[NTkiller7000]

Hi guys I have a behringer sound board that has a bad Power Supply. I have narrowed it down to bad capacitors. Take a look at these pictures.

This is a broad shot of the whole Power Supply.


This is where the bad capacitors are. They are circled in red. The two larger caps I pushed down with my thumb, they were more swollen than this.


This is a picture of the bottom of the Power Supply. Notice the area boxed in red got a little hot.


The story behind this sound board was it was left on all the time. What it would do is its internal synthesizer would turn on, and the 48V phantom power would come on, but the actual mixer would not get power unless the power supply was hot. After it warmed up, the sound board functioned normally. All of the capacitors are of an unknown brand, " Xunda" . I am going to go ahead and replace all of the capacitors inside this power supply, since I know that some of them are bad. We shall see what happens!

[rugger]

Re: Behringer eurorack UB222FX-PRO power supply

If the supply still works after it is warmed up, then chances are excellent that the it work great after replacing the capacitors. My old 17inch monitor was the same, power supply was still operational once it had warmed up, but the caps were cactus and replacing them immediately got it working properly again. I should start a thread and show pictures.

Just make sure you use low ESR capacitors.

[momaka]

Re: Behringer eurorack UB222FX-PRO power supply

I am going to go ahead and replace all of the capacitors inside this power supply, since I know that some of them are bad.

That would be the best course of action. Let us know how it works out.

Also, Behringer uses crappy capacitors in a lot of their equipment. Therefore, if you have any other Behringer stuff, I strongly suggest you take a look inside them as well before finalizing your capacitor order. Might be a few more "rotten eggs" in there.

As for cap replacements, I think the list below pretty much covers what you can use as a suitable replacement. There may be other choices too, but these are the known good here for power supply use.

Manufacturer...............................Series
Nichicon ................................ PW, PM, PS, PJ, PV, HE, HD, HW
United Chemicon (UCC) ............ KY, KYA, KYB, KZE, LXV, LXY, LXZ, KZH, KZM
Panasonic .............................. FC, FK, HFQ (old stock only), FR, FM
Samxon ................................. RS
Rubycon ................................ YXJ, YXG, ZL, ZLJ, ZLK

Lastly: AVOID EBAY FOR CAPS - especially anyone from China or Hong Kong. There are some legit sellers, but they are very few. Chances of getting counterfeit Japanese capacitors is very high.

[kaboom]

Re: Behringer eurorack UB222FX-PRO power supply

Also, Behringer uses crappy capacitors in a lot of their equipment. Therefore, if you have any other Behringer stuff, I strongly suggest you take a look inside them as well before finalizing your capacitor order. Might be a few more "rotten eggs" in there.

That's right!

Anything behringer will have craps; either crapxon in the inuke PWM amps, or ltec/hermei (or worse) in the hybrids with conventional output sections and SMPSes.

As well as this thing, with no-name shit.

It goes w/o saying that behringer has a reputation...

Eurorack? More like "Chinarack."

[momaka]

Re: Behringer eurorack UB222FX-PRO power supply

Eurorack? More like "Chinarack."

Yeah, I got an "Europower" EPQ 1200 from a former roommate. It's a simple amp and designed quite well. Just manufactured in a cheap way with lots of blobby hand-solder joints inside and C(r)apXon + (what the...) HEC caps inside. Good for testing bigger speakers to the max, though.

[kaboom]

Re: Behringer eurorack UB222FX-PRO power supply

Yeah, I got an "Europower" EPQ 1200 from a former roommate. It's a simple amp and designed quite well. Just manufactured in a cheap way with lots of blobby hand-solder joints inside and C(r)apXon + (what the...) HEC caps inside. Good for testing bigger speakers to the max, though.

That was the series I was thinking of, EPQ.

Don'cha love how they try to imitate Crown and Mackie? Isn't there a certain behringer mixer, among other things, uses the same component designators as the "big brothers?"

I almost sprung for an iNuke NU3000 last year; I've got the schematics and the design seemed decent for what it was. They seem to work well enough despite taking main feedback before the output inductor (equivalent of the main output toroid in computer SMPSes- should be OK with tame speakers and shorter cables), and replacing the craps didn't look too bad. Some SMT electros though...

While it would be fun and a good learning experience, I'm not sure that it would be used enough to justify it. "Oh kaboom, you could sell it, right?" Heh- not around here. See my "smashed" thread for comments on the "natives."


Not gonna go there now- too late.

[stj]

Re: Behringer eurorack UB222FX-PRO power supply

these descriptions also sound like Harmon-Kardon!

[NTkiller7000]

Re: Behringer eurorack UB222FX-PRO power supply

Sorry for taking so long to reply, but I want to get this right... I took the power supply and pulled all of the caps off (couldn't read some of them, too crowded) and now I am looking for replacements. There are only 13, most of them small, but I want to be sure to order the right thing. I Know how to match capacitance and voltage, but what about all of this "series" mess? I know I need to find low ESR caps, but I can't find info on the original caps, so I don't know what to order. Also, in a SMPS, which caps are critical when it comes to low ESR? The output/low side caps, or caps on the high side (filter cap?). Here are the specs of the caps I removed, hopefully you guys can suggest replacements.

XUNDA 150uf 400v x1
XUNDA 330uf 100v x1
XUNDA 1000uf 25v x2 (these were both bulged)
XUNDA 470uf 16v x2 (one was bulged, the other wasn't)
XUNDA 47uf 63v x2
TEC 100uf 25v x2
XUNDA 47uf 25v x1
XUNDA 10uf 25v x1
BH 1uf 50v x1

[momaka]

Re: Behringer eurorack UB222FX-PRO power supply

I Know how to match capacitance and voltage, but what about all of this "series" mess?

See post #3 above. Any of the series listed there should work (though, the first 2 to 3 series on the left that are listed for each manufacturer are the more preferable choices). In fact, XUNDA caps are so crappy that even 105C general purpose series from any of the manufacturers above will do better and last longer than XUNDA.

So just get a reputable Japanese brand (preferably from the series I listed), and all should work well.

Also, in a SMPS, which caps are critical when it comes to low ESR? The output/low side caps, or caps on the high side (filter cap?).

Output side caps are somewhat critical. That said, many PSUs will accept quite a wide range of low ESR. It all depends on the design, of course.

In general though, motherboard-grade low ESR (such as Nichicon HM or better, Panasonic FL or better, and Rubycon MBZ or better) should be avoided. Some PSUs may work even with those, but the ripple and noise on the output will be higher.

For the output caps, also make sure to always match the capacitance. Exceeding it by a notch or two is generally okay too (i.e. 1200 uF in place of 1000 uF cap is fine, and even 1500 uF in a spot with 1000 uF likely won't cause issues).

The rest of the caps are not critical ESR-wire at all. Just need to be 105C caps, that is all.

[stj]

Re: Behringer eurorack UB222FX-PRO power supply

watch the diameter and height, too many beginners order caps that wont fit!

[NTkiller7000]

Re: Behringer eurorack UB222FX-PRO power supply

Eurorack? More like "Chinarack."

Yeah, I know, right? You figure they could spend what, $15 more and used quality components! But that wouldn't be any fun, now would it?

watch the diameter and height, too many beginners order caps that wont fit!

I did notice that. Fortunately, I have a set of calipers that do nicely for measuring these fellas.

So I did some looking around and found the part numbers I want to buy. Please review these and see if they will work.

Nichicon LGU2G151MELA
replaces
XUNDA 150uf 400v x1

Nichicon UVY2A331MHD
replaces
XUNDA 330uf 100v x1

Panasonic EEU-FR1E102
replaces
XUNDA 1000uf 25v x2

Panasonic EEU-FC1C471L
replaces
XUNDA 470uf 16v x2

Panasonic EEU-FR1J470
replaces
XUNDA 47uf 63v x2

Panasonic EEU-FM1E101
replaces
TEC 100uf 25v x2

Panasonic EEU-FM1E470
replaces
XUNDA 47uf 25v x1

Panasonic EEA-FC1E100
replaces
XUNDA 10uf 25v x1

Nichicon UVZ1H010MDD1TD
replaces
BH 1uf 50v x1

Hopefully all the parts I picked will be suitable for the purpose.

[momaka]

Re: Behringer eurorack UB222FX-PRO power supply

^ That list looks good to me.

You figure they could spend what, $15 more and used quality components! But that wouldn't be any fun, now would it?

Actually, for them (Behringer), it would probably have cost no more than $2-3 per unit to put good caps in there (since they could get a big oder of quality caps and get a bulk discount). But if they make 1000 units, that's $2000-3000 "wasted". Most likely, it went in the production manager's pocket (and/or whoever else took the decision to use cheap caps).

[NTkiller7000]

Re: Behringer eurorack UB222FX-PRO power supply

^ That list looks good to me.


Actually, for them (Behringer), it would probably have cost no more than $2-3 per unit to put good caps in there (since they could get a big oder of quality caps and get a bulk discount). But if they make 1000 units, that's $2000-3000 "wasted". Most likely, it went in the production manager's pocket (and/or whoever else took the decision to use cheap caps).

Yeah, either that or planned obsolescence, most likely corporate bean counters like you said. I've seen some similar, but more devastating cost saving measures in some cars. A good example is 2005 Dodge Durango valve springs. The 5.7 HEMI engine that went in those vehicles was designed by Mercedes, but Chrysler thought they could "improve" the design by using cheaper parts, namely valve springs. They used the cheapest, pot-metal valve springs they could get their hands on, and that caused a lot of heartache. The springs develop cracks, and break around the 100,000 mile mark. The springs are vital to keeping the valves in the heads, so when they break there is a good chance of "dropping a valve". The aftermath looks sorta like this.

What you're looking at is where the valve fell into the combustion chamber while the engine was running, where it was smashed through the piston. This engine is more than likely completely trashed, and must be replaced. For thousands of dollars. All in the name of saving Chrysler a few dollars per engine! What's so sad is this engine is quite reliable after replacing less than a hundred dollar's worth of parts

Anyway, rant over, if there is no suggestion otherwise, I guess I'll be placing an order to Mouser. Thanks!

[kaboom]

Re: Behringer eurorack UB222FX-PRO power supply

They used the cheapest, pot-metal valve springs they could get their hands on,

I've got no words...


Like cheep motherboards and power(less) supplies, one should not have to replace, excuse me, install proper valve springs in their "brand new car/truck."

Adds meaning to the phrase "gotta dodge the Dodge."

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: Behringer eurorack UB222FX-PRO power supply

aye, planned obsolescence is getting ridiculous these days. its just plain moronic to skimp a few bucks on a new car that costs tens of thousands of dollars! kinda like the teapo filled, nearly 200 buck silverstone 600w sfx psu recap thread in the psu subforum. if the buyer of these above-mentioned products were in the market for penny pinching or on a tight budget, they wouldnt be buying those products in the first place!

god, will we be telling our grandkids stories about the time when things were built to last. in our kids time, things will be built with neither IQ nor EQ. sad world we will leave behind for them. makes me glad to be kicking the bucket before my kids and not seeing anymore of those brainless "human activities and decisions".

[NTkiller7000]

Re: Behringer eurorack UB222FX-PRO power supply

God, will we be telling our grandkids stories about the time when things were built to last. in our kids time, things will be built with neither IQ nor EQ. sad world we will leave behind for them. makes me glad to be kicking the bucket before my kids and not seeing anymore of those brainless "human activities and decisions".

Yeah, the saying "They don't make 'em like they used to" has never had more meaning. You may laugh, but I've seen this personally in my own lifetime, even if I'm only 19. Remember the "old" era of 8 and 16 bit game machines? Besides the NES's issues with the cartridge connector, those consoles almost NEVER break. Then go look at the phat Xbox 360s. Most of the first hardware version had the red ring of death, caused by cracked solder joints under the GPU. Something cool I have that reminds me of better times is the fan I use every night. It is a Robbins & Myers 12 inch desk fan, built somewhere in the late 30s to early 40s. I got this fan from an antique store a while back. After I got it, I cleaned it up, replaced the cloth wiring in it (FIRE HAZARD!), replaced the oil wicks, and that was it. Runs like a top! What's cool about it is the fact that it's almost 80 years old, with the ORIGINAL run capacitor and if I take care of it, it will probably last another 80 years! Have a pic! Sorry for the cluttered nightstand.


Anyway, if everyone else is cool with my list, I'll go place my order. Thanks!