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-   -   Fake Nichicon PS series? (https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=89710)

s675 10-21-2020 02:53 PM

Fake Nichicon PS series?
 
4 Attachment(s)
3 or 4 years ago I purchased a TDA7293 amplifier board from eBay.

I have never used it, but I looked at at and noticed that the large filter caps are ostensibly Nichicon PS(M) 2200uf 50v. They measure around 16x26mm (15x25mm?).

I was surprised that a cheap board would come with capacitors like these. The small ones on the rest of the board are various cheap brands.

This is more curiosity than anything else, but I wondered whether they are fake. In particular I noticed the difference in heat-shrink at the top, and the slightly different looking vents. Is this disparity in appearance normal?

RJARRRPCGP 10-21-2020 04:17 PM

Re: Fake Nichicon PS series?
 
The stamps, don't even look like they were manufactured by Nichicon.

I'm calling foul!

kaboom 10-21-2020 05:09 PM

Re: Fake Nichicon PS series?
 
You better believe they're fake...


Pull em- they'll have flat or bullseye bungs.

Seen on lots of cheep kits/modules, on banggood, icstation, ebay, etc.
"Perception management"- kitmakers' items stand out this way. "Japanese caps are better," amiright? :spin:

It's an earlier module you got. The stock pix still show fakes, but they're shipping now with fakes in their natural appearance. Got some BG kits here with "BH," "JWCO," "changX/chongX," which is what those "Nichicons" really are. Such low grade trash they don't even bother to get the colors right.
Real PS are brown with white printing, like PWs; not just fakery but half-ass fakery, like they're not even trying. Again, all about perception.
:deadhorse:

2200u 50v PS are 18x35.5mm.
:owned:

PeteS in CA 10-21-2020 05:41 PM

Re: Fake Nichicon PS series?
 
Unless Nichicon changed the color of their sleeving for the PS series in the past 10 years, the black sleeving is the wrong color. Should be brown.

Topcat 10-21-2020 07:23 PM

Re: Fake Nichicon PS series?
 
100% phony.

kaboom 10-21-2020 10:28 PM

Re: Fake Nichicon PS series?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Topcat (Post 997021)
100% phony.

Well... aren't we being modest here?
Those are at least 110% phony!
:group:


To the OP:
They seem small for 2200/50v and may in fact be several voltage ratings below their "sticker value."
They could be as low as 1000u/25v, so beware of applying what appears to be rated voltage.

There were some BG reviews of amplifier kits stating the "25V" caps leaked or oozed below their rating.

By stark comparison, recently purchased late-80s NOS 10,000u/25v Panasonic snap-ins had leakage under half a milliamp after ~3mins at 25v thru a 10k resistor.

s675 10-22-2020 09:35 AM

Re: Fake Nichicon PS series?
 
6 Attachment(s)
Thanks all!

I took them off and yep, bullseye bung.

Tested at 2112uf on my cheap meter, so at least that's normal.

The other caps on the board are:
2x Jwco 47uf 50v 105c (12.5x5mm)
2x CZF 10uf 50v 105c (12x4mm)

I suppose that they are also not actually 50v?

Also of note is that the SEP KBL608 regulator looks like it has been re-used.

The one thing that actually seems OK is the TDA7293 itself. Alcohol doesn't take the markings off.

I've attached some pictures.

s675 10-22-2020 11:27 AM

Re: Fake Nichicon PS series?
 
I should say the SEP KBL608 rectifier.

jayjr1105 10-22-2020 11:58 AM

Re: Fake Nichicon PS series?
 
What was ESR? The fakest of fake caps will still be around the correct capacitance.

momaka 10-23-2020 08:16 PM

Re: Fake Nichicon PS series?
 
LOL.

I bought one of those TDA7293 boards recently as well for GP speaker tests and whatnot (but may end up using it in a small subwoofer that has a control board more complex than a space station.)

At least mine came with truly genuine ChongX caps, though. :lol: :lol: Series? - They don't say. But vent is misspelled as "VEHT". Technically speaking, the "H" is the correct Cyrillic substitute for "N" in the Latin alphabet... but I digress. :D
As for some of the smaller caps on my board - JWCO brand, like yours. I'm not surprised, of course, because I paid absolute bottom-dollar for the board I found. :group: (HINT: when you find a kit that you like on eBay, look for listings of the same kit in the "similar items" area. Eventually, you should see lower and lower prices. Given that all of these use the same questionable parts, I wouldn't pay more money for any reason. Grab one for the cheapest possible... or as I like to do, always grab two in case one is DOA... and hope for the best. :D )

Quote:

Originally Posted by s675 (Post 997152)
I suppose that they are also not actually 50v?

If they are miniaturized 85C GP caps, they might (optimistically) be capable of handling 50V.

Just as a comparison here, I do have genuine Nichicon RS, 50V, 2200 uF caps attached on a Sony CRT TV audio processor (AK) board (I don't recall which model Sony it came from, but board p/n is 1-674-082-31 if anyone wants to know for whatever reason.) These Nichicon caps measure 18x25 mm (datasheet says they should be 20x25, but these could be custom-order for Sony), are rated for only 85C, and have a black sleeve with white text. (On that note, I wonder if that's what your counterfeit Nichicons were trying to impersonate, lol.)

With my ChongX being slightly taller at 30 mm (but only 16 mm dia.), I could give them benefit of the doubt that they may stand up to their 50V rating. But would I? IDK, probably not. :p:

Quote:

Originally Posted by s675 (Post 997152)
Also of note is that the SEP KBL608 regulator looks like it has been re-used.

That's good.
Hopefully it came out of some junk legit power adapter. Otherwise, if new, you never know how legit the part is and whether it will do its ratings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by s675 (Post 997152)
The one thing that actually seems OK is the TDA7293 itself. Alcohol doesn't take the markings off.

It could still be a counterfeit or factory reject. Give it full max abuse according to the datasheet and you'll probably know.

FWIW, though, these boards are still pretty cool to play around with for just a few bucks. Just don't expect miracles out of them, obviously. At the same time, also expect there to be some chance of magic smoke, regardless of how you treat them. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaboom (Post 997037)
Well... aren't we being modest here?
Those are at least 110% phony!
:group:

I think 107% is more accurate.
Ask Garage54 why. :D
It's a Russian YT channel for silly car mods^

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaboom (Post 997037)
They seem small for 2200/50v and may in fact be several voltage ratings below their "sticker value."
They could be as low as 1000u/25v, so beware of applying what appears to be rated voltage.

O.o
Now you're tempting me here to remove mine and give them full voltage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaboom (Post 997037)
By stark comparison, recently purchased late-80s NOS 10,000u/25v Panasonic snap-ins had leakage under half a milliamp after ~3mins at 25v thru a 10k resistor.

No surprise.
Good Japanese caps are good, even at 20-30 years age. Sure there were a few problematic series. But overall, I'd use an old/NOS Japanese cap any day over China garbage that doesn't even have the courage to stand under its own brand name (and tried to counterfeit others.)

s675 10-24-2020 11:52 AM

Re: Fake Nichicon PS series?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jayjr1105 (Post 997189)
What was ESR? The fakest of fake caps will still be around the correct capacitance.

0.14 ohm ESR, 0.3% Vloss. I suppose that ESR is OK considering the accuracy of the meter. At least they are "real".


Quote:

Originally Posted by momaka (Post 997470)
But vent is misspelled as "VEHT".

I read that scam emails purposely misspell words to ward off those who are paying attention. Though I suppose it's more likely that they simply don't know or care :p:


Quote:

Originally Posted by momaka (Post 997470)
As for some of the smaller caps on my board - JWCO brand, like yours.

I have a bag full of various values of small capacitors from AliExpress. Almost every value is a different brand. I have Jwco, HuaHong, JNC, ChangX, JEC, JackCon, Chong, MHC, HongKai, Fujicon and United.
I see that Fujicon is especially well-known on this forum. I wonder how many of the others are marques of the same manufacturer(s).


Quote:

Originally Posted by momaka (Post 997470)
If they are miniaturized 85C GP caps, they might (optimistically) be capable of handling 50V.

I think with any component of questionable provenance/veracity it's a good idea to significantly de-rate it, if using it at all. Though I'd always prefer stuff from reputable sources.


Quote:

Originally Posted by momaka (Post 997470)
Hopefully it came out of some junk legit power adapter. Otherwise, if new, you never know how legit the part is and whether it will do its ratings.

Good point! Would be funny if the original power adapter used fakes/rejects though.


Quote:

Originally Posted by momaka (Post 997470)
expect there to be some chance of magic smoke

Nice to have some excitement!

ChaosLegionnaire 10-24-2020 06:21 PM

Re: Fake Nichicon PS series?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by momaka (Post 997470)
But vent is misspelled as "VEHT". Technically speaking, the "H" is the correct Cyrillic substitute for "N" in the Latin alphabet... but I digress. :D

lol so besides speaking and writing broken english, the chinese have also written broken cyrillic as well! lmao!! :group: well the russians will be pissed at their chinese comrades for that lol!! :jester: :jester: :jester:
Quote:

Originally Posted by s675 (Post 997589)
Nice to have some excitement!

yea its nice to get some excitement in our boring lives to keep us on our toes and to make life worth living lol! dont let fear dominate you. dont let fear stop u from living your life to the fullest! oops... not the vip room... i'll stop now. :whistle:

RJARRRPCGP 10-24-2020 06:42 PM

Re: Fake Nichicon PS series?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by momaka (Post 997470)

At least mine came with truly genuine ChongX caps, though. :lol: :lol: Series? - They don't say. But vent is misspelled as "VEHT". Technically speaking, the "H" is the correct Cyrillic substitute for "N" in the Latin alphabet... but I digress. :D

"H" is just to the northwest of "N" on a "Q W E R T Y" keyboard, so it possibly was a fat-fingering, LOL! :lol:


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