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cyclones 10-30-2021 10:39 PM

Motor control board repair
 
I have a motor control board I am trying to repair. I've been told the motor is fine, but the control board will only make the motor go one direction but not the other. Power comes in through a linear transformer and then a rectifier bridge and then filter caps. No schematics for the board. Relays on the board are 24V so I started by setting my bench PSU to 24V and injecting voltage. There are several LEDs. All but one LED lights up. There are test points labelled +15V, 0V and -15V. When checking voltage potential between +15V and 0V, I get a perfect 15V. For -15V to 0V, my meter shows approximately +1.15V. There are two voltage regulators with large heat sinks on the board. One gets warm, and the other is room temp. I think i will check for input to the cold voltage regulator next, but I'm trying to figure out why I'm getting the +1.15V reading on the -15V.

sam_sam_sam 10-31-2021 02:53 AM

Re: Motor control board
 
Post a picture of this device so we can see how this is made so we might be able to figure out what might be going on

cyclones 10-31-2021 03:06 PM

Re: Motor control board
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here's a picture. There's a second board on the bottom that's almost entirely diodes and transistors. I checked all those with a meter and they seem good. I'll get a picture of the bottom board if needed.

R_J 10-31-2021 03:16 PM

Re: Motor control board
 
What are the numbers on the regulator ic's? especially the negative one. Doe the transformer only have 2 wires supplying the board or is it center taped?
Quote:

There are two voltage regulators with large heat sinks on the board. One gets warm, and the other is room temp
you might want to indicate which one gets warm, is it the positive one or the negative one?
If you don't have a balanced circuit +15 and -15, you could see some positive voltage on the negative supply.

cyclones 10-31-2021 04:16 PM

Re: Motor control board
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by R_J (Post 1081035)
What are the numbers on the regulator ic's? especially the negative one. Doe the transformer only have 2 wires supplying the board or is it center taped?
you might want to indicate which one gets warm, is it the positive one or the negative one?
If you don't have a balanced circuit +15 and -15, you could see some positive voltage on the negative supply.

The two regulators which have heat sinks both have the following on them:
on the board they are labelled AVR1 and AVR2.

on the IC packages themselves, there is
3125p
6n27

on both. they seem to be identical, but only one is getting warm. The main transformer seems to have multiple taps.

R_J 10-31-2021 04:39 PM

Re: Motor control board
 
It's nice top know one is getting warm, it would be nicer to know WHICH ONE? I will guess and say the +15 is getting warm and the -15 is not.
If both components have the same numbers it is unlikely they are both positive and negative voltage regulators

Do both regulator ic's have a common ground? have you checked the IN on the -15 ic to see if it has any voltage?
The transformer secondary is likely center tapped and the center tap goes to ground, and one part of the winding supplies each ~ on the bridge rectifier, then the + of the bridge supplies the positive IN for the +15v regulator and the - of the bridge supplies the negative IN of the -15 volt regulator

eccerr0r 10-31-2021 04:55 PM

Re: Motor control board
 
Odd both regulators are TO-3P and the board silkscreen says out-in(tab)-G which is typical for the negative rail regulator (should be in-G(tab)-out for positive). Make sure the "in" is the right voltage in any case.

These regulators are probably NOT for the motor but rather for the zillion op amps on the board that may control the motor drivers.

redwire 10-31-2021 04:57 PM

Re: Motor control board
 
Either the -15V rail has wimped out and collapsed, or something is overloading the -15V regulator. It's not good for IC's and semi's power if a -ve rail goes +ve. I would put a reverse diode from each of the two rails to GND, to keep working on this.

The two VREG's look like on the main board two big heatsinks, the IC's are TOP-3 packaged, one says G/IN/OUT.
The second board has a bunch of dual diodes and transistors, I don't see a voltage regulator in the line up.

sam_sam_sam 10-31-2021 06:09 PM

Re: Motor control board
 
What type of motor does this have and what components are on the second board other than the ones on the heat sink

cyclones 10-31-2021 10:12 PM

Re: Motor control board
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by R_J (Post 1081053)
Do both regulator ic's have a common ground?

I checked tonight in diode test mode between the AVR1 ground to the AVR2 ground and got a diode voltage drop -- about .595 volts.

cyclones 10-31-2021 10:14 PM

Re: Motor control board
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sam_sam_sam (Post 1081066)
What type of motor does this have and what components are on the second board other than the ones on the heat sink

What redwire says -- a bunch of dual diodes and transistors.

eccerr0r 10-31-2021 10:26 PM

Re: Motor control board
 
photo of the tracks on the back side of the board? does not seem right that two apparently "GND" ports are not grounded/tied together - unless the company was playing tricks with virtual grounds and using the same BOM device for both rails... Or the silkscreen is wrong and the chips on the heatsink are different, still don't know what they are...

cyclones 11-01-2021 01:26 PM

Re: Motor control board
 
I'm going to check the linear input transformer by disconnecting it from the board and applying 120VAC to the primary windings and see what all the outputs are. If everything looks good there, I'll connect up the board to 120VAC through an isolation transformer and see what happens. Got to get the supply voltages worked out first before checking anything else.

I've gotten more information about the problem. The outputs for one motor work, but not for the other motor. The maintenance guy switched the non-working motor to the contacts for the working motor and the motor worked, so it's probably something in the output, although it might be a problem on the input side too.

CapLeaker 11-01-2021 01:55 PM

Re: Motor control board
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by redwire (Post 1081057)
Either the -15V rail has wimped out and collapsed, or something is overloading the -15V regulator. It's not good for IC's and semi's power if a -ve rail goes +ve. I would put a reverse diode from each of the two rails to GND, to keep working on this.

The two VREG's look like on the main board two big heatsinks, the IC's are TOP-3 packaged, one says G/IN/OUT.
The second board has a bunch of dual diodes and transistors, I don't see a voltage regulator in the line up.

Another possibility is the +15v is shorted with the -15v rail somewhere.

cyclones 11-01-2021 03:42 PM

Re: Motor control board
 
I applied 120vac to the primary and here's I measured with green as ground:

grey one is 10V
blue one is 40V
purple is 2.25V
yellow is 5V
orange is .5V

R_J 11-01-2021 06:08 PM

Re: Motor control board repair
 
When you checked for the missing -15 volts, was that using the main transformer with 120vac applied or was it when you used your 24vdc bench power supply?

cyclones 11-10-2021 09:46 AM

Re: Motor control board repair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by R_J (Post 1081392)
When you checked for the missing -15 volts, was that using the main transformer with 120vac applied or was it when you used your 24vdc bench power supply?

That was with the power supply. I finally got a chance to try the board in the machine and the input voltage was 107VAC.. not sure why it's 107V because that is just outside the typical 110-120VAC. Either way, in that case the -15V was also missing, and I was still getting about +1V on that rail, so my first task will be to get that figured out and repaired.

R_J 11-10-2021 12:59 PM

Re: Motor control board repair
 
107vac is likely that they have 3 phase power supplying the building and they use one phase to supply the board, this is normal.
Locate the source for the -15v, trace the -15volt point back, the ac for this circuit is likely supplied from the transformer and then through a diode or bridge to give a negative voltage.

cyclones 11-11-2021 11:08 PM

Re: Motor control board repair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by R_J (Post 1083409)
107vac is likely that they have 3 phase power supplying the building and they use one phase to supply the board, this is normal.
Locate the source for the -15v, trace the -15volt point back, the ac for this circuit is likely supplied from the transformer and then through a diode or bridge to give a negative voltage.

It looks like the -15V goes back to SR3 and the voltage regulator that doesn't get warm, AVR2. From looking at the trace lines and from the meter, it seems like the AVR2 is in parallel. SR3 has a + and - and two middle pins that go to the AC input, so it seems like a rectifier bridge, but I don't know what the SR3 designation could mean. Any ideas?

eccerr0r 11-12-2021 12:33 AM

Re: Motor control board repair
 
Black square thing with four pins on the corners, a hole in the center, and a notch cut from one corner is a bridge rectifier. Can't see the designator, need more pictures from different angles so we can tell what you're talking about.

Have to say it's highly irregular to have AVR1 and AVR2 in parallel, then again they being identical parts? What are the part numbers? Why does AVR1 look like it peeled from the heatsink?

--

oh...so avr1 and avr2 are not parallel as the G pins are not connected, so one of them is being used strangely for bipolar supplies?

Still a mystery what part numbers they are and how they're connected to the rest of the board...

R_J 11-12-2021 02:42 PM

Re: Motor control board repair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclones (Post 1083716)
It looks like the -15V goes back to SR3 and the voltage regulator that doesn't get warm, AVR2. From looking at the trace lines and from the meter, it seems like the AVR2 is in parallel. SR3 has a + and - and two middle pins that go to the AC input, so it seems like a rectifier bridge, but I don't know what the SR3 designation could mean. Any ideas?

Are you getting a/c voltage to SR3? It is likely a bridge rectifier, why it is labeled SR3, who knows.
If you are not getting any a/c to the bridge, check the resistance of the traces and the power supply winding that supplies that circuit.
What is the part number on SR3?

cyclones 11-12-2021 07:45 PM

Re: Motor control board repair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by R_J (Post 1083828)
Are you getting a/c voltage to SR3? It is likely a bridge rectifier, why it is labeled SR3, who knows.
If you are not getting any a/c to the bridge, check the resistance of the traces and the power supply winding that supplies that circuit.
What is the part number on SR3?

Is it going to be safe to power up the board with 120VAC? That's about 10% higher than the 107V at the machine. I assume any voltage regulators should be able to handle that but just wanted to check first since I've not dealt with something that is expecting 107V.

sam_sam_sam 11-12-2021 10:40 PM

Re: Motor control board repair
 
If this machine has a step down transformer that supply’s power to this board look and see if it says 110 volt or not because if does do you know if your facility has a hot leg if it does then you might have the transformer on the wrong set of legs because if the step down transformer says 110 to 120 volts output

Because I has this happen to me one time and when I switch the legs to a certain way I got the correct voltage however do not change the machine main power supply legs unless you do NOT have any other motors on this machine because your rotation might be wrong

R_J 11-13-2021 08:35 PM

Re: Motor control board repair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclones (Post 1083857)
Is it going to be safe to power up the board with 120VAC? That's about 10% higher than the 107V at the machine. I assume any voltage regulators should be able to handle that but just wanted to check first since I've not dealt with something that is expecting 107V.

It should be ok, but you could also just check the resistance like I said. The transformer winding should connect directly to the ~~ connections on the bridge rectifier.

cyclones 11-17-2021 10:24 AM

Re: Motor control board repair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by R_J (Post 1084049)
It should be ok, but you could also just check the resistance like I said. The transformer winding should connect directly to the ~~ connections on the bridge rectifier.

Yes, it does. I measured half an ohm (0.5 ohms) resistance on the traces. The letters and numbers on the apparent BR are LBA 63.

R_J 11-17-2021 11:26 AM

Re: Motor control board repair
 
I suspect you have the -15 volts, It was only missing because the main transformer was not being used.

cyclones 11-17-2021 05:47 PM

Re: Motor control board repair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by R_J (Post 1084977)
I suspect you have the -15 volts, It was only missing because the main transformer was not being used.

I tried it in the machine with everything connected and the -15V was missing.

cyclones 11-17-2021 06:30 PM

Re: Motor control board repair
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclones (Post 1085028)
I tried it in the machine with everything connected and the -15V was missing.

I just connected my DC power supply to the middle pins of SR3 (where the AC is supposed to go) and supplied 20 volts and the -15V rail comes up.

R_J 11-17-2021 06:33 PM

Re: Motor control board repair
 
That proves the bridge rectifier and the rest of the -15v circuit is ok. The fault is then with either the transformer not supplying the a/c to the bridge or there is a break (or small fuse) between the transformer and the bridge rectifier.

I hope the transformer was NOT connected when you applied the 20 volts to the bridge? if it was that may have opened the winding on the transformer as the winding would be a very low resistance to the 20vdc.

cyclones 11-17-2021 07:22 PM

Re: Motor control board repair
 
Well, I found the problem causing no -15V. It's the connector. It's not making good contact, but I'm sure I accidentally bent that pin when I was originally trying to measure transformer output voltages. So I'll have to either fix that or replace the connector. I've seen this type before so I assume I can find one.

So now I guess I power it up on 120V with attention to that connector and see what I get.

sam_sam_sam 11-20-2021 10:53 AM

Re: Motor control board repair
 
Let us know if you were able to fix this board issue or not


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