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-   -   New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates (https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=100324)

clearchris 10-29-2021 11:27 AM

New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
I was browsing on ali, and I'm seeing a bunch of these super cheap soldering hot plates. I was going to make one, but it's really hard to justify DIY when you can buy a plate for under $10.

Most look pretty functional, one looks like it needs to have the plate flipped, and they could all stand to be countersunk and swap the screws for flat head ones. Would be nearly trivial to install an arduino, thermocouple and ssd for fine control.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003127491986.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001445767919.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002383494461.html

sam_sam_sam 10-29-2021 12:37 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
I like the first one and really like the last one for sure thank you for sharing the links

When you do get the micro controller program written can you please post the files because I would really like to get them working to be able to repair led strip and things like that

megaraider 10-29-2021 08:42 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by clearchris (Post 1080522)
Most look pretty functional

Aside from the plate size (75x75mm vs. 120x75mm) and price (1st vs. 2nd & 3th) I'm not sure if the heating element isn't the same... because they state the same constant power consumption at the same temperature setting.
Of course in either 3 options you'll get twice the time to get the settling 260C temperature, and possibly some temperature fluctuations because these were designed to operate on 240V, not 120V.

Overall, it doesn't really justify DIY... go for it.

diif 10-29-2021 10:51 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
They aren't new, they've in the shopjimmy led rework station and are also used on their own for replacing LEDs.

sam_sam_sam 10-30-2021 04:07 AM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Yes they are not new item but the plate size is some what new because all ones that I have seen have been very small in size

But temperature control to me would be very important to be controlled for best results from a device like this although 500*F is not extremely high temperature for a heating plate for heating up solder on a circuit board if they used lead free solder you are going to play hell using this device for that type of solder


I am going to have to find another seller for this item because they do accept PayPal as payment and I will not use a credit card for this website because I have issues in the past with certain seller

But I going to buy the third one that was listed an do some experiments with it you might even need to use a a hot temperature controlled air gun for best results

diif 10-30-2021 04:41 AM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
No, really, nothing new about the size either, mine is over two years old.

redwire 10-30-2021 05:10 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
All of these heat plates are rated 220V. Looks like only one factory in china lol.
I don't know if the PTC works good enough for 110VAC operation? Don't get fooled by the 110V plug.

sam_sam_sam 10-31-2021 10:56 AM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
I had bought some 24 volt ones and tried to run them on 12 and it did heat up but I did not have temperature sensor device to take it temperature

redwire 10-31-2021 04:46 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
I've worked with LED's on aluminum MCORE pc boards, using hot air. It takes a lot of heat and too much will burn the LED melt the silicone lens.
Now I blast hot air on the backside to stop that from happening but still killed LED's from the heat. If they have a big thermal pad, even more heat is needed.

So I wanted to get one of these low cost hot plates, but almost all are 220V. Some offered with "US 110V plug" but say 220V in the ad.
I found part number YG400W-N is 220V, and YG-400W-W is 110V 400W in the 120x70mm size.

clearchris 11-01-2021 10:41 AM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by redwire (Post 1080841)
All of these heat plates are rated 220V. Looks like only one factory in china lol.
I don't know if the PTC works good enough for 110VAC operation? Don't get fooled by the 110V plug.

I think there might be 2 factories, I have seen two basic styles.

Because of how the PTC heaters operate, I'm not sure there's much of a difference in heating via 120 and 220v. It's not a normal resistive heater, the resistance varies as the temperature increases on a logarithmic scale. So, if the 120v power heats it a less quickly, the heater keeps the resistance low. Nearer the target temperature, the resistance rises quickly, to the point where I'm not sure if 100v difference really matters much. It might mean the top temperature is a few degrees less and it takes some seconds more to get to the top temperature.

I have seen documents that basically lump 120-380v in one basket, and others that say you need different heaters for 120 and 220v. It probably depends on the precision of the ending temperature required.

I haven't pencil whipped the numbers myself, for $10 I'll take a gamble and see if it works.

https://dbkusa.com/blogs/whatisptc/h...tc-heater-work

megaraider 11-01-2021 05:59 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by clearchris (Post 1081296)
Because of how the PTC heaters operate, I'm not sure there's much of a difference in heating via 120 and 220v.
https://dbkusa.com/blogs/whatisptc/h...tc-heater-work

That guy almost nailed it aside from a mistakenly confusing Power (or Energy) with Voltage, what a great shame :barf:
U=RI
P=RI2 [Power (or Energy) = resistance x squared current]

Here the concern is the amount of Energy released as heat.
Thus, since they where designed to work on 240V you'll end up with a straight line (logarithmic and power of 2 cancelling each other).
Quote:

Originally Posted by megaraider (Post 1080607)
Of course in either 3 options you'll get twice the time to get the settling 260C temperature, and possibly some temperature fluctuations because these were designed to operate on 240V, not 120V.

Overall, it doesn't really justify DIY... go for it.


clearchris 11-01-2021 07:31 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by megaraider (Post 1081391)
That guy almost nailed it aside from a mistakenly confusing Power (or Energy) with Voltage, what a great shame :barf:
U=RI
P=RI2 [Power (or Energy) = resistance x squared current]

Here the concern is the amount of Energy released as heat.
Thus, since they where designed to work on 240V you'll end up with a straight line (logarithmic and power of 2 cancelling each other).

Isn't logarithmic x^10 and power of 2, well, x^2. Wouldn't we just see some flattening, and not a straight line?

redwire 11-02-2021 04:52 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
For a constant resistance, 1/2 the voltage gives 1/4 the power.
But these things have a PTC non-linear resistance and hard to tell what power and temperature it will settle into steady state. I don't think you can run the 220V plate on 110V and expect 250C because the power is much less. If the PTC is say 500ohms at 250C, for ~100W at 220v, that would only be ~25W at 110V so the plate would go cooler.

Most Ali stores have the option for a 110V or 220V plate. I noticed they are rated 400W 220V and 300W 110V for the larger 120x70mm one. Other stores are silly with a 110V plug option but looks like the 220V plate is what gets shipped.

clearchris 11-02-2021 08:33 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Yeah, I bought one on amazon, the one with the silly plug. ;) There's a review with a pic of an infrared thermometer saying it reaches 230C, which is actually fine for me. Adding a touch of hot air might actually be better, less chance of frying the leds from a plate that is too hot.

Technically, if I want to run a short 15' extension cord, I could have 220v at my bench. I may even have a 110/220v transformer kicking around that I could also use. But I admit, that would be less convenient.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08R7PKLDH/

I should have it thursday, I'll post a review.

megaraider 11-02-2021 09:11 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by clearchris (Post 1081407)
Isn't logarithmic x^10 and power of 2, well, x^2. Wouldn't we just see some flattening, and not a straight line?

Yes... straightened line (my mistype).
Quote:

Originally Posted by redwire (Post 1081618)
For a constant resistance, 1/2 the voltage gives 1/4 the power.

YES, very well seen!! NO room to bend the laws!!
Quote:

Originally Posted by clearchris (Post 1081647)
I may even have a 110/220v transformer kicking around that I could also use. But I admit, that would be less convenient.

It will become handy... imo.

stj 11-03-2021 06:07 AM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
i have one of those plates for changing flashlight leds
they work but you need to be quick or they will cook your board and make it go yellow.
i may add a controller and thermocouple so it can ramp down or just not get so hot.

it's fine for changing one part or using solder paste but not for doing work that takes several minuits.

clearchris 11-03-2021 08:02 AM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stj (Post 1081746)
i have one of those plates for changing flashlight leds
they work but you need to be quick or they will cook your board and make it go yellow.
i may add a controller and thermocouple so it can ramp down or just not get so hot.

it's fine for changing one part or using solder paste but not for doing work that takes several minuits.

I can believe it, 240-260C is the top end of the range. This is my next project after finishing the signal tracer, should be quick to knock out a design. I think the hardest part will be figuring out how to attach a thermocouple to the plate.

stj 11-03-2021 10:05 AM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
thermal adhesive to the underside

clearchris 11-03-2021 10:21 AM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stj (Post 1081807)
thermal adhesive to the underside

Thanks for the idea. Kapton tape should probably work in this instance, there's little risk of the tape falling off and burning up since it's already temperature limited.

redwire 11-03-2021 12:16 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
People are using stoves, electric frying pans, steam irons, waffle irons etc. as hot plates.
These seem to be a PTC element wrapped in Kapton tape and then stuffed into the aluminum base.
One critical part is the cool down rate, once you get reflow and pull power it's probably too long to cool and wrecks semi's? Need around 4-6C/sec ramp down.

I'd add a bead thermocouple and maybe a cheap STC-1000 PID controller or just use a triac light dimmer if it's too much heat.
What I find with thermouples is they don't read accurately, they can read low if the mounting has high thermal resistance. Tape and glue have to be done well. A crimp lug bolted down is best but you don't want another screw sticking up. Maybe the underside at the legs would work.

stj 11-03-2021 12:56 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by clearchris (Post 1081812)
Thanks for the idea. Kapton tape should probably work in this instance, there's little risk of the tape falling off and burning up since it's already temperature limited.


you could put a strip of spring-metal on one corner mounting hole to press the thermocouple to the plate

diif 11-03-2021 02:51 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Just jam the thermocouple in the end between kapton tape and profile.

stj 11-04-2021 06:10 AM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
but thats reading the ptc and not the aluminium

diif 11-04-2021 06:22 AM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stj (Post 1081954)
but thats reading the ptc and not the aluminium

As they are all touching the ptc should be the same as the aluminium.
The flat parts are also colder than the middle, so upside down the flat surface has an uneven heat anyway.

clearchris 11-05-2021 10:24 AM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Ok, did some testing. 3 minutes 30 seconds to 215C. Top temperature around 330C or so in another minute or so. It bounces aronud a bit between 225 and 235. I had one measurement around at 239C. I ran it on top of a marble slab, there were reviews that the feet get hot, and I believe them.

Hard to argue with the price on this one. I'll have to go through my projects and see if I need to reflow anything.

stj 11-05-2021 12:16 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
i put mine on threaded standoff posts so it is a good inch from the table

diif 11-05-2021 04:33 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Mine rests on a silicone soldering mat. I have two large heatsinks that are the same height that sit either side to provide better support for strips. I have also got disc cut from the insulation for a log burner, good for over 1000c

sam_sam_sam 11-06-2021 08:12 AM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by clearchris (Post 1082275)
Ok, did some testing. 3 minutes 30 seconds to 215C. Top temperature around 330C or so in another minute or so. It bounces aronud a bit between 225 and 235. I had one measurement around at 239C. I ran it on top of a marble slab, there were reviews that the feet get hot, and I believe them.

Hard to argue with the price on this one. I'll have to go through my projects and see if I need to reflow anything.

Were these test at 120 volts or 240 volts which version do you have that you did testing on

stj 11-06-2021 08:28 AM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
pretty sure he used 120v, because at 240v they heat a lot faster than that!

clearchris 11-06-2021 10:39 AM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stj (Post 1082469)
pretty sure he used 120v, because at 240v they heat a lot faster than that!

Yes, tested at 120v.

redwire 11-06-2021 12:04 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
How are people getting the hot pc board off the plate? My luck, I would bump it and have parts all over the place. There needs to be a lift or something?

clearchris, can you measure ohms cold and hot of the plate you have. I ordered one 100V for $9 and will compare when the slow boat comes in.

stj 11-06-2021 01:13 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
i have an inline switch on mine that was intended for a table lamp.
i just power it off and let it and the pcb cool together usually

diif 11-06-2021 01:29 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
I do strips, so there is extra support both sides of the plate and then I lift it with these. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003324153934.html

clearchris 11-06-2021 06:01 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by redwire (Post 1082521)
How are people getting the hot pc board off the plate? My luck, I would bump it and have parts all over the place. There needs to be a lift or something?

clearchris, can you measure ohms cold and hot of the plate you have. I ordered one 100V for $9 and will compare when the slow boat comes in.

Link? Which one?

I can't measure right now, my meter is across the country. :( I may pick up a cheap meter in the meantime though.

megaraider 11-06-2021 09:54 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by redwire (Post 1082521)
How are people getting the hot pc board off the plate? My luck, I would bump it and have parts all over the place. There needs to be a lift or something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by diif (Post 1082533)
I do strips, so there is extra support both sides of the plate and then I lift it with these. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003324153934.html

Those gloves don't provide any accuracy
Even an aluminium foil paper sheet would provide much better results.
Place the sheet over the heat plate, leave good margins, place the strip, do the work, lift the strip picking up the aluminium foil paper edges.

If quick cool down isn't needed then follow:
Quote:

Originally Posted by stj (Post 1082531)
i have an inline switch on mine that was intended for a table lamp.
i just power it off and let it and the pcb cool together usually


diif 11-07-2021 12:45 AM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Those gloves work great. I'm moving a hot pcb a few cm. I'm. Puzzled how you can tell me thy don't work when they work great?

sam_sam_sam 11-07-2021 02:46 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by clearchris (Post 1082509)
Yes, tested at 120v.

Thanks

megaraider 11-07-2021 08:13 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by diif (Post 1082577)
Those gloves work great. I'm moving a hot pcb a few cm. I'm. Puzzled how you can tell me thy don't work when they work great?

Working with LED strips... not imo.
But if those gloves work great with pcb boards there's possible answer to your question @redwire

diif 11-08-2021 03:44 AM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
[QUOTE=megaraider;1082744]Working with LED strips... not imo./QUOTE]

Yes, mainly aluminium with the occasional fr4.

Whilst the OP and others might claim they are new, I've had mine since 2018, how long does it take you to find an optimal way of working with a tool ?

megaraider 11-08-2021 02:22 PM

Re: New Cheap Chinese Soldering Plates
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by diif (Post 1082797)
Yes, mainly aluminium with the occasional fr4.
Whilst the OP and others might claim they are new, I've had mine since 2018, how long does it take you to find an optimal way of working with a tool ?

Agree, LED strips and tools to work with aren't new :p:


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