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-   -   Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks (https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3460)

bgavin 03-13-2007 09:51 PM

Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
I spent 4 hours on the Home Basic edition. What a pig. It is incompatible with a wide variety of stuff, plus slow as hell.

AMD 3200/64 processor, Dell E-series box. Not enough memory at 512mb, but still in the black if opening a web browser.

No Outlook Express
Replacement "Windows Mail" will import some OE files, not others.
No NTBackup
Built in Backup/Restore will not read NTBackup BKF files.
Won't install Quicken 2005 Deluxe at all
Will install Quicken 2005 Basic, but you have to click the data file first.
Refuses McAfee Enterprise 8.0i
Installs McAfee Enterprise 8.5i OK
Office Updates not supported. You must opt-in "Window Updater" instead.

And the most irritating thing is, just like the Mac commercial, it asks your permission for EVERY DAMN THING it does. Truly amazing. I equate this piece of shit with New Coke.

I figure when the Mac will run MS Office and Quickbooks Pro, flawlessly, it is gonna beat Windows ass. FTR, I am not a Mac fan (nor disparager).

Fatal0E 03-14-2007 08:14 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
I am running Vista Premium x64, not to bad. Turned off the User account control that bugs ya all the time. Had no problems with quicken 2005 deluxe. Quickbooks 2000 wont install. Speed seems fine. Running it on 3 computers in my home. Athlon x2 2.5ghz, 2gb ram, 2gb readyboost drive, 250gb sataII hdd 16mb buffer... Athlon x2 2ghz, 2gb ram, 500gb sataII 16mb buffer drive... Core duo laptop 1.86ghz, 32bit vista, 1gb ram, 5400rpm drive. All seem to run fine, but laptop could use 2gb ram.

Fizzycapola 03-14-2007 10:09 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
It seems not too long ago having a computer with 64-128Mb was considered super powerful able to be used for creating profesional 32bit color 3D movies of Pixar quality.

Now one must have 2GB or more to open their a text document.

Did everybody die and awake in hell. This is a nightmare you must pinch yourself to believe it's real.

Per Hansson 03-14-2007 10:10 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
1gb is usable, 2gb feels better

The new Windows Update app is a much better idea.
The old with Internet Explorer and ActiveX to install critical security updates to the operating system, the two most insecure things ever developed!!!!

You can turn off UAC, and yea, I also hate Vista :D

Fizzycapola 03-15-2007 07:14 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
Why do you use Vista anyway. Is it not just a slower OS, actually programmed to be slow like XP is.

Per Hansson 03-16-2007 02:26 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
Like all windows NT versions you should wait a service pack or 2 if you really want somewhat decent performance and a chunk of the millions of known bugs removed

Note: Windows 2000 shipped with 50000 known "faults"

stevo1210 03-16-2007 05:40 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
I bought a Dell Inspiron 6400 earlier this year and it came with the Windows Vista express upgrade program. So a few days ago I decided to pay the $35 for it to be shipped here.

I had always thought Windows Vista was something very new and exciting because of those great ads they have on TV.... now I'm going to have to reconsider that point after hearing about how slow it is and the bugs it contains etc.

My Dell Inspiron 6400 has the following in it.... it was quite expensive when I got it also.... probably because of all the fancy extras I ordered....

* Intel (R) Core Duo T2250 CPU, 1.73GHz, 533MHz FSB, 2MB L2 cache.
* 1GB 667MHz DDR2 RAM (Dual channel 2x 512Mb modules)
* 80GB SATA HDD
* ATi Radeon X1400 256MB Hypermemory.... this is the best part of this laptop, also the point why I ordered it.
* 8X DVD-Writer
* Dell 355 Truemobile Bluetooth module.... I wonder if it is Vista compatible....
*Intel PRO 3945 A/B/G WLAN.

Anyway, will these specifications be able to run Windows Vista Home Premium smoothly?? I currently have Windows XP Media Center Edition and it runs very fast. For my desktops, I am still using Windows XP, but some of my desktops also run Fedora Core 5. Fedora Core is a pretty good OS, very fast on a Pentium III, no such bugs etc. and best of all it is a freeware OS.

Thanks.

WNG 03-16-2007 10:38 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
I don't see myself porting to Vista in the future. I think MS pretty much painted themselves into a corner in going down the gamentertainment route. Crazy as it may sound, they flipped with Apple's MacOSX for being a mainstream OS. OSX is beginning to be a more robust OS, with hardware capable of running windows XP.

As far as OS's, I'm sticking with win2k/winXP. I've finally stripped XP sp2 down to the point where I can live with it... lean, fast and reliable. But it's still porkier than win2k.

Migrating to Linux, not Vista... and may have to adopt a MacOS (wow, did I state that?).

I'd love to see a GoogleOS that will topple Microsoft once and for all.
:D

starfury1 03-16-2007 01:22 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
I just read in a mag that home basic is XP in drag....:)

Me...* I think unless you are going for the higher range versions....its just more blotware...
like how to take you nice fast X2 chip and make you want to go and buy a Quad chip....
* But no expert on OS's

Ok yeah all a bit tongue in cheek

No plans unless I get a much faster box and that isn't going to happen any time soon

So I can live without it......dont need its run home to billyware either its a pain enough with XP when it gets screwed or you change too many things..well it thinks you have and it decides it wants to be reactivated.

be nice if you could get OSX for white goods type boxes though
I dont mind OSX

cheers....

willawake 03-16-2007 01:44 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
how is vista without all the fancy gui? there must be way to speed it up also by removing services that are not needed.

Fatal0E already explained how to avoid the constant nagging.

here is something if people are considering whether to get DSP version or not.

Quote:

On the question of replacing components, our licensing terms do allow for replacing or changing components. Windows Vista allows you to change up to 5 non-peripheral components, after which the PC is deemed to be "new". In other words you can upgrade your MB, Processor, RAM, Hard Drive and Graphics Card, without needing a license purchase. Every hardware change will necessitate a reactivation, however.

Once you have replaced more than 5 non-peripheral components, you will need to purchase a new DSP license / pack.

gdement 03-16-2007 02:45 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
Every new windows version has been slower than the last. I remember back in the 90's Microsoft used to advertise the latest versions as "faster", even though they really meant "you need a faster computer".

I'm always on the trailing edge because old stuff works and the constant upgrade mentality just annoys me. I've tried WinXP and didn't like it as much as Win2k, so that's what I still use. But now Microsoft won't even share their hotfix for our daylight savings time issue. That spells out our bad standing with Microsoft pretty clearly.

Does retail Vista come with downgrade rights? If so, how are you supposed to go about getting an XP installer?

MD Willington 03-16-2007 04:49 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bgavin
I spent 4 hours on the Home Basic edition. What a pig. It is incompatible with a wide variety of stuff, plus slow as hell.

AMD 3200/64 processor, Dell E-series box. Not enough memory at 512mb, but still in the black if opening a web browser.

Nvidia chipset, Nvidia drivers aparently suck for Vista... and your board is sharing the 512 meg o ram with the onboard video?

Quote:

I figure when the Mac will run MS Office and Quickbooks Pro, flawlessly, it is gonna beat Windows ass. FTR, I am not a Mac fan (nor disparager).
I've seen where people have almost the same intel chipset hardware in a PC where they could run X86 OS-X...

Apple has a leg up here since they use a finite set of hardware, whereas Microsoft has to cope with an infinite set of hardware...

tazwegion 03-17-2007 01:18 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
The only reason I upgraded from 98SE was because you just couldn't get all the drivers you needed & MS stopped any further support, 2K & XPpro variants are nice enough... but there's times I miss the almost simplistic 98SE :)

BTW the MS slogon "the WoW starts NOW..." relates more to your wallet's reaction to the new OS than you're OS experience LMAO :d

willawake 03-17-2007 07:43 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
i certainly dont miss 98/ME. what a load of crap. It would develop wierd problems which would take hours of troubleshooting and in the end could only be solved with a reinstall. it was like a house of cards, mess around with stuff and vape the whole os.

2000/XP meant i no longer do much support, just dealing with failed hdds, spyware, lost menu bars :goofy: etc.

Per Hansson 03-17-2007 11:03 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
2:nd that^^

I switched to 2000 December '99...

And let me check now, what am I still running? Ahh, Windows 2000 :D

Oh, I have also learnt my install key by memory; literally, I usually go and hum it at work to just annoy people...

And the few times I've had people by when installing my Win2K, let's just say they have dropped their jaws to the floor :D

tazwegion 03-17-2007 06:09 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by willawake
i certainly dont miss 98/ME. what a load of crap. It would develop wierd problems which would take hours of troubleshooting and in the end could only be solved with a reinstall. it was like a house of cards, mess around with stuff and vape the whole os.

2000/XP meant i no longer do much support, just dealing with failed hdds, spyware, lost menu bars :goofy: etc.

I never liked win-ME but 98SE-lite worked just fine, I don't recall ever experiencing many issues in all my applications, though disappearing icons in the taskbar is nothing new as it still happens to me using XPpro SP2... a hard reboot fixes all that ;)

I guess I'm fond of 98SE-lite because my older hardware supports it so well, PII era CPU's can and do struggle with 2K/XP releases :( I suppose a stripped down version of XP would be somewhat easier eh?

AFAIK it was regular win98 that had the bulk of the issues, hence the release of the Second Edition variant :)

japlytic 03-17-2007 07:39 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
Upgrading to Windows 95 in its time was moderately steep (system requirements - I ran 95B on an old 386 in 1997 which did work), and XP was quite steep (compatibility - I held off until 2004, when I got my new computer at this time). I think Vista is a bit too steep for me.
Not to mention some devices not being able to work with Vista (which means some of them being thrown out because they would not work with Vista!)
I guess the manufacturers want to make money selling new devices and not supporting older ones :bash: ...

Fizzycapola 03-17-2007 09:43 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by willawake
i certainly dont miss 98/ME. what a load of crap. It would develop wierd problems which would take hours of troubleshooting and in the end could only be solved with a reinstall.

Out the box this was very true, most of the blue screen errors seemed to be RAM allocation related, it was almost as though the errors were intended to encourage you to buy their new OS. I think many people bought XP for this reason. Although I found simply changing a few lines of text in system files I found made the OS almost rock solid unless I started messing around with new applications/drivers etc. That and a full reinstalltion to perfect tweaked state with all apps working via key reg file backups backed up and reinstallable any time in under 60 seconds made me very very happy with it.

Here is are my custom settings from my archive:
[boot.description]
system.drv=Standard PC
mouse.drv=Microsoft Mouse
keyboard.typ=Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural Keyboard
aspect=100,96,96
display.drv=FIRE GL X1

[386Enh]
ebios=*ebios
woafont=app850.fon
mouse=*vmouse, msmouse.vxd
device=*dynapage
device=*vcd
device=*vpd
device=*int13
keyboard=*vkd
display=*vdd,*vflatd
PagingDrive=D:
MinPagingFileSize=1382400
MaxPagingFileSize=1382400
IRQ3=4096
IRQ5=4096
IRQ10=4096
IRQ11=4096
IRQ14=4096
PageBuffers=32
VGAMonoText=OFF
DMABufferSize=64
HardDiskDMABuffer=64
32BitDiskAccess=on
ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1
MinTimeSlice=80

[vcache]
minfilecache=65536
maxfilecache=65536
ChunkSize=4096
NameCache=4096
DirectoryCache=128

Back then a 65MB cache you could run Office 2005, Graphics Apps, Read Acrobat documents whilst playing modern games, listening to music and browsing the net and it would all run from RAM at 60 nano seconds. To do the same today only *nearly* as fast requires 4GB+ of DDR2 800Mhz-1066Mhz RAM and 6Ghz of processing power and maybe even a RAM hard drive array.

Sometimes I wish Bill Gates would say the reason to buy Vista is to slow you down because you're walking/talking too fast, maybe if everybody still used old apps with modern power they could do a years work in a split second, give MS money and give hardware industry money. Not transparent lies. I think their slogan should be "hey you give us your money, don't ask what it's for". :p:

Per Hansson 03-18-2007 03:39 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
ConservativeSwapfileUsage=1

This one I remember, it lets Win98 address memory above 128mb

It simply can't otherwise, I mean, wtf 128mb ram was not _that_ much in '98....

gdement 03-18-2007 04:35 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
I never liked Win98, but it certainly has a lot of fans for whatever reason. It's just as unstable as all the DOS descendant versions, and the IE integration makes it slower than 95 or NT4. As much as I used it for a few years, I don't think I'll ever install it again.
If a computer can't use Win2k, then for most purposes NT4 is a much better choice than 98. NT4 is very stable and it also runs faster than 98 on old systems. I used it on a P133 laptop and it felt like a new computer. The problems with NT4 are it doesn't support USB and it doesn't work with modern versions of DirectX, so you can't play many games on it. That isn't a big deal on most old machines.

tazwegion 03-18-2007 06:13 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gdement
NT4 is very stable and it also runs faster than 98 on old systems. I used it on a P133 laptop and it felt like a new computer. The problems with NT4 are it doesn't support USB and it doesn't work with modern versions of DirectX, so you can't play many games on it. That isn't a big deal on most old machines.

I can't say I ever used NT4 perhaps I should give it a look in... still, no way no how am I getting Vista yet :bash:

grss1982 03-20-2007 07:33 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fizzycapola
It seems not too long ago having a computer with 64-128Mb was considered super powerful able to be used for creating profesional 32bit color 3D movies of Pixar quality.

Now one must have 2GB or more to open their a text document.

Did everybody die and awake in hell. This is a nightmare you must pinch yourself to believe it's real.

Agreed. :nod:

I started my fascination with computers at a time when Pentium 133's with 32mb RAM were adequete for running games like StarCraft, Diablo ii, and even CStrike 6.0.

Years later in this age of MS Vista I also feel the same way that: "Now one must have 2GB or more to open their a text document." :lol:

bgavin 03-20-2007 08:00 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
I did another Vista Premium setup for a client. New Dell E560, 2gb, 800 FSB on Duo Core, dual channel memory, etc. Nice machine.

Except for Vista.

What a turd. Disabling the "Account Management" (the permission asking thing) causes it to raise all sorts of alarms, "the account management is disabled!!!". One is as bad as the other.

MS will eventually bow to the tide of complaints, and fix the basic things. Like doing a file search actually searches the disk, not a list of web sites. Harumph.

When my clients ask me, "Why does..." I tell them that Why is a philosophical question, and beyond the scope of this class. You are encouraged to call 1-800-Call-Bill and pay MS to ask questions. I don't do questions.

I'm trying to figure out if I'm just cranky as hell from too many allergies, or if Vista really sux has hard as I think it does. What a disaster. I haven't seen the Business versions yet.

tazwegion 03-21-2007 07:22 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grss1982
Agreed. :nod:

I started my fascination with computers at a time when Pentium 133's with 32mb RAM were adequete for running games like StarCraft, Diablo ii, and even CStrike 6.0.

Blizzard Entertainment releases from that period are excellent! I too have played Starcraft, Warcraft series etc. most recent (non-Blizzard) acquisition being 'C&C Tiberian Sun' RTS gaming rocks! :rock:

I managed to get by on K62-350, 64Mb PC100 & 98SE for years, not until I encountered the 'Dark Reign' series did I need to invest in better hardware, a TnT2pro (OC'ed) & K62-500 :twisted:

* gets nostalgic * :nod:

willawake 03-21-2007 09:22 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
my favourite game is arkanoid :D
the games i have played the longest are the need for speed series but the playability never got better after NFS3, NFS HS/RC. in fact it got worse.

Shroomie 03-21-2007 02:48 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
willa, I still play NFS3:HP...It ran fine on my P2-266 with Win95b, 128 megs of RAM, and it runs fine now. Brings back memories.

As for Vista, everything described in this thread is why I still use 2000 and XP. Heck, the PPro-200, OCed to 233, with 64 MB of EDO runs Win2000 tolerably well, and a P3-500 with 256 MB is fine for XP. Probably would've been fine with 128.

But Vista? When the requirements of an operating system are higher than those of the games that I play (ex.: GTA SanAndreas, The Sims 2, to name some of the "newer" ones that run fine with 512 MB of PC3200), I'm not upgrading to that OS anytime soon, especially considering that nForce2 users were basically told to shove it anyway...

Spacedye69 03-21-2007 02:52 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
I feel the urge for a Linux plug... :)

tazwegion 03-22-2007 01:16 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spacedye69
I feel the urge for a Linux plug... :)

Hmmmm... okay will this do?

Robert Schindler, a mechanical engineer (structural design) based in Florida - "It will be a long time before you hear me praise NT or any other MS product. I believe that Gates and his empire have done more to lower the standards of our society than anything else in my lifetime. If my product had the same quality as theirs, airplanes would be falling out of the sky hourly."

Or perhaps this little gem (and a personal favourite)

Douglas Adams author of the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy - "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all his customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who by peddling second-hand, second-rate technology, led them all into it in the first place."

bgavin 03-22-2007 08:46 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
I figure that when the Mac can run flawlessly:
  • Microsoft Office
  • Quickbooks Pro

It will begin to make huge inroads into the business environment. I'm not a Mac guy at all, but not a disparager either. I do admire the total control Apple maintains over the machine and drivers. This has to be less problematic than the Windows world.

My customers all tell me the same thing: they don't want to know how it works, or to tinker with it. Like a wall phone or TV, they just want it to work on demand. My experiences with Vista so far, assume me I will have lots of work.

MD Willington 03-22-2007 11:58 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
A dozen or so of us here at work still play D2 on our machines at home...

toastygoodness 03-22-2007 07:20 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tazwegion
Hmmmm... okay will this do?

Robert Schindler, a mechanical engineer (structural design) based in Florida - "It will be a long time before you hear me praise NT or any other MS product. I believe that Gates and his empire have done more to lower the standards of our society than anything else in my lifetime. If my product had the same quality as theirs, airplanes would be falling out of the sky hourly."

That sucks, cause Microsoft makes autopilot and flight software. Not hourly, but maybe once per month.

davmax 03-22-2007 07:21 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
Just to put in my two dollars worth. I have been happy with XP for a long time supporting many users and if the users just use the computers and not start deleting or changing system functions it has proven very reliable over the years. I am not changing to Vista in the forseeable future in that I use some pretty old programmes. One was developed at Windows 3.1 time and ran on Windows 95. Fortunately Windows XP compatabilty mode offers various tweeks that allow me to run the PCB circuit design suite (expense to replace).
I hate think what the cost would be to upgrade to Vista.

Per Hansson 03-23-2007 08:26 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
As many others have said the biggest threat to Vista is not Linux, it is Windows XP

grss1982 03-23-2007 08:51 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
Hmmm....

I was just wondering with Windows 98 support being discontinued and Vista being out the door now, does anybody get the feeling that Windows XP could be the next Windows 98 in terms of logetivity?

MD Willington 03-23-2007 11:55 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Per Hansson
As many others have said the biggest threat to Vista is not Linux, it is Windows XP

Exactly, seems M$ is fast tracking the obsolescence of XP...

I still have W2K and it works just fine...

willawake 03-23-2007 03:52 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
i remember reading also that they are fast tracking sp1 for vista (perhaps to catch the corporate clients who dont upgrade until sp1)

one of the problems in that respect is that budgets have to be allocated appropriately. there is no sense to upgrade unless there is valid reason. like for instance when we moved from 98 to 2000. it was a great improvement and reduced the desktop support by like 80%.

so if they think admins are going to rush to implement vista..........there are many other more important items in the budget these days. not only upgrades to the whole buttload of software offices need these days (not microsoft). but also the servers and web services.

microsoft gets a lot of criticism but many techs made very nice money supporting their stuff. The thing i really think they should be criticised for is pricing.

linux is great but for the general consumption it is not gonna be on the desktop in most offices unless everything moves to web applications (which is not unlikely) these people cant even remember how to use windows after their vacation (or lunch break). :noob:

tazwegion 03-24-2007 03:00 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Per Hansson
As many others have said the biggest threat to Vista is not Linux, it is Windows XP

Perhaps, but as I figure it Windows 2000 will be the next on the chopping block, as MS doesn't want to alienate too many PC users XP may stay with us for a good while yet :D


AFAIK corporations are increasingly looking at Linux as a real contender (if not adopting it), where once they would've been staunch MS loyalists, and completely disregarded it... I mean just look at how CompaQ, Hewlett Packard & Dell offer pre-loaded Linux computing solutions :)

japlytic 03-25-2007 10:11 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17739772/ - Federal agency bans Microsoft Vista
(Some of my concerns about compatibility with older hardware has been revealed)

starfury1 03-26-2007 04:04 AM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
yes I think XP has got a bit more life yet thats for sure

I think they did from memory extend there support for win98

I think there is a rough guide somewhere on when they tend to phase OS's out

Pricing of vista ( here in oz) and the x different versions of it make it all a bit confusing too for the lay person.
So I dont think MS has done them selfs any favors in this regard

its early days yet really even if it has been a looooong time coming.

Although I don't really do anything with bizz setups

on a bizz level, unless you need it or its of some financial gain to you why would you bother if you have working secure setups.

Are there any real major pluses that would make the headache and expense worth while?

I know there would be some but would the upgrade be worth the time money and teething problems

Another problem I see is that when M$ does discontinues support for XP, there is a possibility for them to not reactivate copies that are out there even if you you do have a legit claim of lic doubt they would be that nasty but it exists (anybody read the lic agreement and know an answer to that one?)

The world really needed a standard OS, not so sure MS is the answer but its what we got so guess we have to live with it...XP hasn't been too bad really
(except the constant security issues)

I remember the days of microcomputers & CP\M OS and floppies for each manufacture had different formatting...... what a nightmare.
In a lot of ways you were locked to whom ever you bought the computer off.

From what I have read on Vista..... no time soon for me

I think for it to really shine you need the right version and the hardware for it to exploit

With anything new software wise...best to wait till the iron out a lot of the bugs.

just my thoughts

cheers all :)

gdement 03-26-2007 02:37 PM

Re: Windows Vista Pretty Much Sucks
 
I'm having a very hard time trying to get an Atheros based wireless card, which came with a *new HP computer that came with Vista* to work properly. From everything I've read online, lots of people have problems with the Vista driver for that card. Early adopting sucks, I wish that computer had come with XP and a free Vista upgrade we could just install later when it works properly.


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