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-   -   Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons? (https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2210)

japlytic 07-21-2006 06:58 AM

Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
Found this recently:
http://www.nichicon.com/english/seihin/index.htm

ALERTS......Customers Beware
Counterfeit Nichicon Products

To all Nichicon customers,

Recently it has been reported that counterfeit Nichicon capacitor products are turning up in the market. These counterfeit products are not produced by nor guaranteed by Nichicon. They are of inferior quality and could cause end product failure as well as possible safety hazards.
In order to protect your company, do not use counterfeit parts. Only use genuine Nichicon products purchased from an AUTHORIZED Nichicon distributor or Nichicon sales office.
If you have any concerns as to the authenticity of any Nichicon product please contact your local Nichicon sales office for support.

Any more information about counterfeit Nichicon capacitors?

yanz 07-21-2006 09:27 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
It doesn't say anything about what product is counterfeited. And, saying "Only use genuine Nichicon products purchased from an AUTHORIZED Nichicon distributor or Nichicon sales office." doesn't help me at all. I never bought caps from authorized anything! :D

I think i've seen a counterfeited nichicon VZ or VX. It really need a sixth sense to avoid those fake product :D j/k

BTW i've seen the information months ago on nichi's page but lack of details just disappointed me that i laughed at it.

Sorry japlytic but thanks, it has a great potential to be discussed here.

linuxguru 07-22-2006 12:56 AM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
It would help if they explained how to tell a counterfeit from a genuine - there's no way to buy only from their authorized distributor(s) in many parts of the world - the distances and the mark-ups are too high.

In any event, the only counterfeit Nichicons I've seen had very poor finish and lettering - very easy to identify. IMHO, some Panasonic, Rubycon and NCC fakes are much harder to identify. It doesn't help that Panasonic has several undocumented series made in Malaysia and by Samxon in China, and that NCC probably has some series made under contract by Samyoung - which are allegedly of poorer quality.

willawake 07-22-2006 06:17 AM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
Quote:

It would help if they explained how to tell a counterfeit from a genuine
problem is that it would assist counterfeiters to make their products to look more real.

what they really need to do is to make the products difficult to fake. For instance on the sleeve they could print nichicon very small and repeating all over the sleeve in the backgound (similar to what banks do on financial certificates or whatever)

they could also do something with the bags of 200 or so caps or the reels. putting holgram stickers etc on the bags or having an online database of the serial numbers of bags sold so companies can register their bags and see if the serial number is correct or it has been duplicated.

of course only the first point would directly help us small buyers.

the thing is that when a product is being made in several licensed factories, there is a possibility to lose control so you have off-spec product leaving the factory at the back door instead of being destroyed. you might also have personnel in the factory doing their own run of cheap caps using the sleeves, bungs etc in stock and even using off spec raw materials which should have been destroyed. maybe even the supplier of the sleeves etc loses some product out the back door.

so there can be several types of "counterfeit" products. not only the idea of some small factory making bad copies

the component brokers have a big problem with trying to obtain non-counterfeit product and when they do obtain fakes or off-spec product what happens to it? if they dont get a refund do they just lose their money or does the product get sold to another broker who does not mind dealing with fakes. or do they pass it on to the buyer as the real thing and later say "we did not know!" There are some brokers who do hold their reputation as most important but for others who knows.......

as small buyers we are not going to be doing business with an authorized Nichicon distributor or Nichicon sales office. least we can do however is to do business with a supplier who probably is.

japlytic 07-25-2006 10:10 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by willawake
the thing is that when a product is being made in several licensed factories, there is a possibility to lose control so you have off-spec product leaving the factory at the back door instead of being destroyed. you might also have personnel in the factory doing their own run of cheap caps using the sleeves, bungs etc in stock and even using off spec raw materials which should have been destroyed. maybe even the supplier of the sleeves etc loses some product out the back door.

There is a case of a manufacturer producing products for another company which had its relationship ended - like in the Hecmma Group manufacturing batteries for Kyocera - http://www.batteriesdigest.com/count..._batteries.htm
Another case is the hijacking of a vehicle carrying off-spec components for destruction, with the hijackers later passing them off as the genuine product.
I have never heard this, the manufacturer who produces components for another company label components having better specifications (such as a regular capacitor being labelled as a low-ESR component) :bash: .

yanz 08-02-2006 07:00 AM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
Another one by NCC: http://www.chemi-con.com/index.php
Quote:

July 05, 2006

Caveate Emptor

“Buyer Beware”



“Buyer Beware”



To all of our Customers:



Recently, we have seen a substantial increase in the number of incidents of counterfeit Chemi-Con capacitor products in the marketplace.



Please protect yourself: only purchase Chemi-Con capacitor products from officially "FRANCHISED" Chemi-Con Distributors and Representative WorldWide!!!
have they read my thread about chemy tmz? :D

yanz 08-02-2006 07:04 AM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
BTW, good analysis, Will :)

But if i being a Nichicon guy, i will still choose to include the detail/visibility of my product in every datasheet/pdf document. so the public/consumer will have a knowledge how to chose nichicon product right.

If only Nichi give example of what the fake product could look like (bad writing, sleeve/jacket colour, bung (that i thing all the jee, fuhjyyu, gsc, and teapo share the same type bung (they're really not creative)), etc..).

While it will also give a guide for the counterfeiter, it will make them think twice before attempting to do their evil things. They should make it close to real or no at all. Why? Because they will be dealing with consumer that - now - have the ability/knowledge to deal with the counterfeited product and can easily avoid them.

So, really, those idiot counterfeiter should made it right at the first time (making it closer to real ones). The only chance for them all this time is maybe because of those uninformed consumer too.

That will make the cost of making one counterfeit product arise, could be even more then what nichicon paid (but only in term of the visibility).

Unfortunately the ordinary people like joe sixpack are immune to whatever information the manufacturer put on their website, simply because they never touch the internet and they are not a heavy electronic hobyist. They will say ok to whatever the shop give them. I was one of them :D.

Yea but another scenerio of counterfeiting you have mentioned are just really...scarry. (Can't find a proper word for it).

And, like what linuxguru have mentioned, hidding something from consumer will only shoot their own foot. What if i make a fake panasonic FN or FR caps that look like a FJ? it already happen with chemicon TMZ (it has exatcly a chemicon logo but i never heard about TMZ series).

Ignorance is a bliss..

at77 04-27-2012 12:41 AM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
:bsflag:

regarding counterfeit detection: a couple things to look for MAY include:

- capacitor dimensions: get the datasheet for whatever nichicon series you're looking at and check if the dimensions match up given the value and voltage. could be a good indicator.
- print quality: of the knock offs that i've seen, their print quality is sub-par. factory nichicons look pretty slick and clean, well printed (not slightly foggy lettering that looks like it's from a mediocre scan).

If either of those are the case, you're likely looking at fakes. That's not the only way they could vary, but those could be good indicators.

A good way to avoid it is purchasing from a reputable source such as newark, digikey, mouser, or avnet (or such other larger distributors) OR a local shop that you trust.

Cheers,
AT

PeteS in CA 04-27-2012 08:56 AM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
Not sure what you think is BS, and this thread is something like 6 years old. But things like vent scoring patterns, bungs, sleeve color, print quality, font, and label information layout can all be tell-tales. I do agree that buying from non-authorized sources is riskier. A large corporation can get a distie to send samples to examine, but an individual or small business might not be so fortunate.

Uranium-235 04-27-2012 08:56 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
for some reason i've seen revival of oooold threads lately. stop people

Shocker 05-06-2012 09:31 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
I have an idea to make them harder to fake - print holographic labels!!!

;)

Topcat 05-06-2012 09:55 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
^
They'd look cool, that's for sure!

ben7 08-05-2012 06:06 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
This looks fishy! The 'HD(M)' is too big! Also, the size is wrong, the 1500uF 16v HD are marked as 12.5x20mm :P:

c_hegge 08-05-2012 06:13 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
^
The date codes are also wrong. Should be H09xx, not C09xx. Also, '09 made Nich HD caps wouldn't have sleeves.

ben7 08-05-2012 06:14 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by c_hegge (Post 256332)
^
The date codes are also wrong. Should be H09xx, not C09xx. Also, '09 made Nich HD caps wouldn't have sleeves.

I just realized, but a quick search on ebay shows loads of dodgy looking caps :lolsign:

kc8adu 08-05-2012 09:39 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
most of the caps in that "allpartspipe" store look counterfiet.
like the panasonic fc that are black and gold with fuzzy print.
or the eb with flat bung.

ben7 08-06-2012 06:06 AM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kc8adu (Post 256354)
most of the caps in that "allpartspipe" store look counterfiet.
like the panasonic fc that are black and gold with fuzzy print.
or the eb with flat bung.

Yeah, and 'Rubycon's with an X shaped vent! xD

gunnish 01-07-2014 12:20 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
3 Attachment(s)
These got to be fake right?

Cheap bung

FW 105 degrees is unheard of

Fw usually is not brown, but gold.

ben7 01-07-2014 01:58 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnish (Post 407982)
These got to be fake right?

Cheap bung

FW 105 degrees is unheard of

Fw usually is not brown, but gold.

Yep they are fake. Wrong bung and wrong color scheme.
105 degrees celsius is a common temperature rating.

LLLlllou 01-07-2014 08:51 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by ben7 (Post 408002)
Yep they are fake. Wrong bung and wrong color scheme.
105 degrees celsius is a common temperature rating.

He meant FW series is an 85 degree series, not 105.

... and yes, they are VERY fake.

SkipP 01-22-2014 06:35 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
Is it safe to assume that caps bought at Radioshack are real? I have been using them for years. I am halfway through a project with 5 nichicons already soldered into place.

LLLlllou 01-28-2014 09:44 AM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SkipP (Post 413552)
Is it safe to assume that caps bought at Radioshack are real? I have been using them for years. I am halfway through a project with 5 nichicons already soldered into place.

99% chance they're real, over 100% chance they are crap brands, or general purpose series from good brands.

Radio Shack sells nothing in the low or super low ESR range that would be acceptable for PSU or MOBO repairs. For general purpose repairs they should be OK, but if you're going to pay Rat Shacks ridiculous prices, you might as well order quality caps from Badcaps.net or Digikey.

mrmazda 08-30-2014 02:05 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
2 Attachment(s)
Has anyone else suspected lately counterfeit Nichicons from a major recommended/reliable/trusted vendor? The stenciling on these HNs doesn't look very good to me. The HZs don't look a lot better. Bungs all look OK. The 1800 HNs were bought last November and no longer stocked. The 820s were just bought, as were the 680s. The normal looking HMs were bought 6 months ago, but currently listed as scheduled EOL.

theOracle 08-31-2014 03:21 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
It's really simple, just buy from the authorized Nichicon distributors (which means pretty much DigiKey & Mouser) - you will NOT get fakes from the authorized distributors, but you have a very HIGH probability of getting counterfeits if you use any sources that are not specifically called out on the Nichicon website!

you need "chain of custody" between Nichicon and you to avoid the Chinese counterfeits that are now at epidemic proportions!

Quote:

Has anyone else suspected lately counterfeit Nichicons from a major recommended/reliable/trusted vendor?
just stay with the vendors listed on Nichicon's corporate website, those ARE the only "major trusted recommeded reliable vendors"

mrmazda 08-31-2014 05:40 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
I was trying to make it clear, without naming names, that all Nichicons in the images I attached came (via USPS) from the same one of Nichicon's authorized US distributors. Before I purchased the HNs in those images, I'd never seen such fuzzy stenciling anywhere except on web site examples of counterfeits.

theOracle 08-31-2014 08:08 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
where are you getting your information that this distributor is authorized? - from the Nichicon website I hope?

Nichicon has not made these three old series you mentioned in a long time, no authorized distributor is gonna be selling old capacitors, the only H-series capacitors that are current production are HD, HE, HV, and HW

I remember buying HN's and HM's on closeout several years ago!

PS Nichicon only has 4 authorized distributors in USA that keep inventory in stock, they are:

Digi-Key
Mouser
Newark
Arrow - Verical division

SIDMX 09-01-2014 12:10 AM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmazda (Post 478932)
...The stenciling on these HNs doesn't look very good to me...The 820s were just bought, as were the 680s

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmazda (Post 479180)
...I'd never seen such fuzzy stenciling anywhere except on web site examples of counterfeits.

Well those stencils doesn't look that bad to me, if datecodes in HZ are from 2 years ago like the HN it may be just the result of handling in the warehouse.
Quote:

Originally Posted by theOracle (Post 479197)
...Nichicon has not made these three old series you mentioned in a long time, no authorized distributor is gonna be selling old capacitors, the only H-series capacitors that are current production are HD, HE, HV, and HW...

I don't know about HN or HZ but HM was still in production at least in Q1 of present year.

theOracle 09-01-2014 06:21 AM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SIDMX (Post 479225)
Well those stencils doesn't look that bad to me, if datecodes in HZ are from 2 years ago like the HN it may be just the result of handling in the warehouse.
I don't know about HN or HZ but HM was still in production at least in Q1 of present year.

I think they continued to make some of the older H-series for some corporate clients after they were discontinued from distribution

chungwy 10-24-2014 07:50 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
Just bought 3x Nichicon 6.3V 820uF off an ebay seller.
Used a tester on them and it returned 2000, 2500 and 3000 uF.
Are these fakes? and are they safe to use in a motherboard?

pc7fan 10-24-2014 08:01 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
What?! Is your tester good? About 3x the nominal value is impossible lol

chungwy 10-24-2014 08:11 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
yea pretty sure the tester is good.
I tested many other caps on it and they all look good.
these are the only batch that are tested out of range.
all three caps are from the same seller. I don't get it...

theOracle 10-24-2014 08:50 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
Nichicon only has 4 authorized distributors in USA that keep inventory in stock, they are:

Digi-Key
Mouser
Newark
Arrow - Verical division

the first two for sure are just as low cost as ebay, and you are absolutely getting genuine caps!

AVOID ebay for capacitors! - I'm serious!

rollme 12-04-2014 06:57 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by theOracle (Post 479197)
where are you getting your information that this distributor is authorized? - from the Nichicon website I hope?

Nichicon has not made these three old series you mentioned in a long time, no authorized distributor is gonna be selling old capacitors, the only H-series capacitors that are current production are HD, HE, HV, and HW

I remember buying HN's and HM's on closeout several years ago!

PS Nichicon only has 4 authorized distributors in USA that keep inventory in stock, they are:

Digi-Key
Mouser
Newark
Arrow - Verical division

I got these from Newark about a year ago. Since they are samples, maybe they had some NOS to give away.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2...204_164744.jpg

mariushm 12-04-2014 08:06 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
The series were discontinued a while ago, but Digikey and Newark/Farnell still show some capacitors from those series (just some combinations of capacitance/voltage, not whole ranges).
Guess they're whatever they still have in stock.

Last HM and HN series capacitors I bought were from Farnell, around April or May this year. Not sure exactly when.

mockingbird 12-04-2014 08:10 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
According to a certain Nichicon distributor I spoke with this week, Nichicon is still accepting orders for HZ series.

Jooo 05-20-2015 01:52 PM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
4 Attachment(s)
Just something that caught my eye...

The end of the sleeving is not perfectly round on any of these caps. They were in sealed factory bag, and were from authorised distributor so I have no reason to believe that they are fakes... They are all exactly like that, so I guess they had some problems with their machines that week.

theOracle 05-22-2015 02:20 AM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
I see nothing in your photos that looks incorrect about these caps - and I have been using these for a long time!

ben7 05-22-2015 05:23 AM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by theOracle (Post 561593)
I see nothing in your photos that looks incorrect about these caps - and I have been using these for a long time!

Yeah they look good to me. :smile:

I think you might be worrying a little too much xD
But don't hesitate to post pics here if you find some that you are not sure about, or that look like counterfeits.

-Ben

AleXis6 08-26-2021 03:07 AM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
I am from Belarus and it is not easy to buy really genuine Nichicon caps for appropriate price.
could you help me to understand the following:
1. if size is fully corresponded with the datasheet and the capacity and ESR also (I have Uni-t 622c for measurement) what should I check further?
2. the color of insulating sleeve must be the same inside of 1 series?
for example each capacitor inside of HE series must have same color sleeve. yes?
3. please look at the attached pictures
all are non genuine?
https://i.ibb.co/9TD2xZ1/photo-2021-08-26-11-43-08.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/0hwMxkq/photo-2021-08-26-11-42-52.jpg
size, esr are corresponded to the datasheet,
but sleeve sits not accurate

4. thermal shrinkage has stripes
https://i.ibb.co/rMYfgRS/photo-2021-08-26-12-04-21.jpg
thank you

theOracle 08-26-2021 04:20 AM

Re: Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?
 
Hello from USA - sadly, although these capacitors are poorly made counterfeit, you can no longer go by looks - because I have seen some fake counterfeit Nichicon and other counterfeit Japanese capacitors which look perfect and genuine. The only way to ensure you are getting real genuine Nichicon is to order from authorized distributor - but here is the good news, the largest authorized Nichicon dealer in USA has an office for Belarusian customers also!! - DigiKey is the largest and most respected capacitor distributor in America and in the world, any capacitor they sell will be genuine. And their prices are very low. I have been ordering from them since the 1970's :jawdrop:

Digi-Key
701 Brooks Avenue South,
Thief River Falls, MN 56701 USA
Language: Russian, Belarusian, English
Phone: 000.800.100.1274 or +1.218.681.7979
Fax: +1.218.681.3380
Web Site: www.digikey.by
E-mail: [email protected]
Territory: Belarus


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