Replacing low value electrolytics with ceramic?

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  • Pentium4
    CapXon Be Gone
    • Sep 2011
    • 3741
    • USA

    #1

    Replacing low value electrolytics with ceramic?

    So I disappeared from working on electronics for quite some time. I'm unboxing my ancient projects and want to resume some of them. Unfortunately, my knowledge is a little rusty.

    I've always liked to do full recaps on power supplies. My cap supply isn't perfect and I do not have any more 0.47uF 50V caps. I do have some ceramic caps with that value. Can they replace the lytic without issues? If I remember correctly, their max voltage drops rapidly after getting hot. Is that correct? If this isn't a good idea, I doubt the cap will cause any problems. It's by the main controller/exhaust so I doubt it will get hot or fail but I like to be thorough.
  • stj
    Great Sage 齊天大聖
    • Dec 2009
    • 30945
    • Albion

    #2
    Re: Replacing low value electrolytics with ceramic?

    most ceramics are 60% tolerance.
    i use polyester or polypropylene for 1uf and under.

    Comment

    • Per Hansson
      Super Moderator
      • Jul 2005
      • 5895
      • Sweden

      #3
      Re: Replacing low value electrolytics with ceramic?

      Ceramic capacitors capacitance are also voltage dependent.
      So the general answer to this question would be no, you can't.
      "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

      Comment

      • PeteS in CA
        Badcaps Legend
        • Aug 2005
        • 3578
        • USA, Unsure of Planet

        #4
        Re: Replacing low value electrolytics with ceramic?

        If you can get same value/voltage CGO ceramics, you won't have to worry about the temperature or voltage coefficients. If X7R, then the combined tolerance will be, IIRC, +/-20%. Z5U and Y5V are crap, IMO.

        That said, the impedance characteristic will be very different from lytics.
        PeteS in CA

        Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
        ****************************
        To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
        ****************************

        Comment

        • Pentium4
          CapXon Be Gone
          • Sep 2011
          • 3741
          • USA

          #5
          Re: Replacing low value electrolytics with ceramic?

          Thanks for the replies. I couldn't find anything suitable in my parts bin. I think I will just leave the cap where it is. All the other higher value caps will be replaced which should be good enough.

          Comment

          • PeteS in CA
            Badcaps Legend
            • Aug 2005
            • 3578
            • USA, Unsure of Planet

            #6
            Re: Replacing low value electrolytics with ceramic?

            Ack! COG, not "CGO".
            PeteS in CA

            Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
            ****************************
            To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
            ****************************

            Comment

            • eccerr0r
              Solder Sloth
              • Nov 2012
              • 8678
              • USA

              #7
              Re: Replacing low value electrolytics with ceramic?

              but it is NP0?

              Comment

              • PeteS in CA
                Badcaps Legend
                • Aug 2005
                • 3578
                • USA, Unsure of Planet

                #8
                Re: Replacing low value electrolytics with ceramic?

                "COG" and "NPO" are the same thing, probably nomenclature going back more decades than I do (I think I saw the terms used in late 1950s vintage TV technician magazines).
                PeteS in CA

                Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
                ****************************
                To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
                ****************************

                Comment

                • eccerr0r
                  Solder Sloth
                  • Nov 2012
                  • 8678
                  • USA

                  #9
                  Re: Replacing low value electrolytics with ceramic?

                  oh I was jusr being silly with O's and 0's, you know my username...

                  Comment

                  • Pentium4
                    CapXon Be Gone
                    • Sep 2011
                    • 3741
                    • USA

                    #10
                    Re: Replacing low value electrolytics with ceramic?

                    I needed to order parts for something else so I just ordered some 0.47uF 50V nichicon UPW

                    Comment

                    • PeteS in CA
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Aug 2005
                      • 3578
                      • USA, Unsure of Planet

                      #11
                      Re: Replacing low value electrolytics with ceramic?

                      Originally posted by eccerr0r
                      oh I was jusr being silly with O's and 0's, you know my username...
                      OOOOOOooooooooK
                      PeteS in CA

                      Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
                      ****************************
                      To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
                      ****************************

                      Comment

                      • eccerr0r
                        Solder Sloth
                        • Nov 2012
                        • 8678
                        • USA

                        #12
                        Re: Replacing low value electrolytics with ceramic?

                        000000k it is

                        Comment

                        • TheLaw
                          Badcaps Veteran
                          • Jan 2011
                          • 477

                          #13
                          Re: Replacing low value electrolytics with ceramic?

                          If you want to visualize how capacitance drops with applied DC bias voltage, you can check out Kemet's KSIM web app:

                          https://ksim3.kemet.com/capacitor-simulation

                          The limitation is fundamentally package size, and more directly, the physical amount of dielectric material contained. Since Class II ceramics are ferroelectric, they "saturate" similar to how an inductor's core might. More material means it saturates less under the same DC bias conditions.

                          Beware of "too good to be true" capacitance values in tiny packages. Sure you can get a 1.0uF/25V 0603 capacitor, but you better not use it above 5V, if you really need a 1.0uF capacitor.

                          Comment

                          • Pentium4
                            CapXon Be Gone
                            • Sep 2011
                            • 3741
                            • USA

                            #14
                            Re: Replacing low value electrolytics with ceramic?

                            Thanks for the link, that's a pretty useful tool

                            Comment

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