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    3300uf 6.3v for xbox

    Anyone have a recommendation for a 3300uf 6.3v cap for an original XBOX?

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    Last edited by Per Hansson; 10-11-2020, 04:32 AM. Reason: Offsite image uploaded
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    #2
    Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

    just use panasonic FR 3300uF 6.3v 10x25mm caps. the vrm design doesnt look like it uses a high switching frequency so esr is not that important. better to keep capacitance the same.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

      The inductor core looks like Micrometals Type 52. I'd guess the switch frequency is around 200KHz. Also, the original Xbox, IIRC, is a late 90s design, so ultra low impedance types probably would not have been used. Panasonic FR or FM look like good choices; from Nichicon, maybe HE or PA; from Chemicon, maybe KY or KZE; from Rubycon, maybe ZL.
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        #4
        Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

        Here are some I've been looking at.

        https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...1475-ND/589216
        https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...1493-ND/756009
        https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...085-ND/3563770

        Needs to be 5mm lead spacing and no taller than 20mm, width can vary.
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          #5
          Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

          if you search the forum i'v done a number of posts about this subject and how to upgrade to polymer caps
          Attached Files

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            #6
            Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

            Originally posted by stj View Post
            if you search the forum i'v done a number of posts about this subject and how to upgrade to polymer caps
            Thanks! I'll check it out when I'm back home later tonight.
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              #7
              Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

              Originally posted by stj View Post
              if you search the forum i'v done a number of posts about this subject and how to upgrade to polymer caps
              I saw your previous posts. Obviously polymers are really good but I feel modern day electrolytic's are more than capable of replacing capacitor-plague-era caps and lasting decades.
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                #8
                Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

                well,
                you cant get ultra-low esr electrolytics anymore - because the cap makers realised that polymers are superior in most ways.

                the original caps in that position are usually nichicon HN series btw.
                and before they fitted 3x 3300uf ones, they fitted 5x 1800uf caps.
                hence the 2 empty spaces

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

                  Originally posted by stj View Post
                  well,
                  you cant get ultra-low esr electrolytics anymore - because the cap makers realised that polymers are superior in most ways.

                  the original caps in that position are usually nichicon HN series btw.
                  and before they fitted 3x 3300uf ones, they fitted 5x 1800uf caps.
                  hence the 2 empty spaces
                  I actually found Nichicon polymers in 2200uf flavor. Would three of those suffice or would you still populate the extra 2 spots?

                  https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...198-ND/3998084

                  Also, could I just load up on 1800uf and replace all the 3300's and 1500's with just those to keep things simple?
                  Last edited by jayjr1105; 08-25-2020, 07:05 AM.
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                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

                    i would use all 5 spaces and use 1500 or 1800uf caps
                    1500's are fine because polymers have lower esr anyway

                    but i have to say that digikey are very expensive.

                    go to your other post in the xbox thread - i'll dig out some links

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

                      Originally posted by jayjr1105 View Post
                      Here are some I've been looking at.

                      https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...1475-ND/589216
                      https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...1493-ND/756009
                      https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...085-ND/3563770

                      Needs to be 5mm lead spacing and no taller than 20mm, width can vary.
                      the first two u picked are too fat and may not fit as there are a couple of spots on the pcb where the caps are side by side and there may not be enough clearance to fit 12.5mm diameter caps in there.

                      the last one has too low ripple current handling and too high esr and is more meant for general purpose rather than low-esr applications.

                      so since it cant be taller than 20mm so it may interfere with the cpu heatsink clips, u can try panasonic fs 3300uF 6.3v 10x20mm caps instead.
                      Originally posted by jayjr1105 View Post
                      I actually found Nichicon polymers in 2200uf flavor. Would three of those suffice or would you still populate the extra 2 spots?

                      https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...198-ND/3998084

                      Also, could I just load up on 1800uf and replace all the 3300's and 1500's with just those to keep things simple?
                      u must keep the total bulk capacitance as close to the original as possible. since the original has 3x3300uF it means the original total bulk capacitance is around 10,000uF or so. if u use 2200uF caps then use 5 caps to get as close to 10,000uF as possible.
                      Originally posted by jayjr1105 View Post
                      I saw your previous posts. Obviously polymers are really good but I feel modern day electrolytic's are more than capable of replacing capacitor-plague-era caps and lasting decades.
                      it depends on how hot the hardware runs. polymers last better on hot running hardware but since this is a pentium 3 based system, it doesnt run hot at all unless u intend to put the console in a hot closed cabinet during summer. cost is also a factor as polymers are more expensive than electrolytics.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

                        Originally posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post
                        since this is a pentium 3 based system, it doesnt run hot at all unless u intend to put the console in a hot closed cabinet during summer. cost is also a factor as polymers are more expensive than electrolytics.
                        no, this is an xbox, the cpu and gpu are poorly cooled in a very confined space - it does get hot.
                        what you arent seeing is the dvd and harddrive trays about 5mm above the board!!!
                        and of coarse you have the switching psu on the right - also under the drive trays with no direct fan!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

                          Originally posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post
                          u must keep the total bulk capacitance as close to the original as possible. since the original has 3x3300uF it means the original total bulk capacitance is around 10,000uF or so. if u use 2200uF caps then use 5 caps to get as close to 10,000uF as possible.
                          I read STJ say somewhere that with polymers, you can cheat a good bit on capacitance since they are so robust.
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                            #14
                            Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

                            a bit,

                            example
                            the cpu had 5x 1800uf = 9000uf
                            or 3x 3300uf = 9900uf

                            you can use 5x 1500uf = 7500uf and it works fine

                            dont try halving it though - i'v seen people do that with pc's and macs on this forum - but your pushing your luck going that much lower,

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

                              Originally posted by stj View Post
                              a bit,

                              example
                              the cpu had 5x 1800uf = 9000uf
                              or 3x 3300uf = 9900uf

                              you can use 5x 1500uf = 7500uf and it works fine

                              dont try halving it though - i'v seen people do that with pc's and macs on this forum - but your pushing your luck going that much lower,
                              Nothing bulging on this V1.3 board and clock cap already removed. Would you proactively replace anything on this board?

                              Attached Files
                              Last edited by Per Hansson; 10-11-2020, 04:33 AM. Reason: Offsite image uploaded
                              --------------------------------------------------------------
                              Ryzen 3600x
                              16GB Patriot 3600MHz
                              MSI B450 Gaming Plus
                              MSI Air Boost Vega 56
                              Acer 32" 1440P Freesync
                              Rosewill Capstone 750W
                              --------------------------------------------------------------
                              Hakko FX-888D Station
                              FX-8802 Iron
                              MG Chem .8mm 63/37 RA 2.2%

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

                                the cpu caps will fail at some point.
                                other than that, i'd leave it till it fails - then change all the smaller ones

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

                                  Originally posted by jayjr1105 View Post
                                  Nothing bulging on this V1.3 board and clock cap already removed. Would you proactively replace anything on this board?
                                  Yes.
                                  Replace all Nichicon HM and HN series caps with H01xx, H02xx, H03xx, and H04xx date codes. These WILL go bad, if not already (sometimes they don't bulge/leak, as I found out on an Intel 845 board that kept crashing with normal-looking HM caps, but they tested quite out-of-spec once removed.) No point to wait for them to fail. If you have the caps in stock, and since you already have the board out, just replace them.
                                  Last edited by momaka; 08-29-2020, 01:21 PM.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

                                    Originally posted by stj View Post
                                    the cpu caps will fail at some point.
                                    other than that, i'd leave it till it fails - then change all the smaller ones
                                    Just replaced them. What is going on with the old caps. All three old 3300uf Nichicon HM caps are reading almost triple their stated value???

                                    One was 7500uf, one was 8900uf, and one was 9000uf. I tested with 2 different meters.

                                    Attached Files
                                    Last edited by Per Hansson; 10-11-2020, 04:33 AM. Reason: Offsite image uploaded
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                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

                                      ^ That's completely normal... for BAD/FAILED/FAILING Nichicon HM and HN caps, anyways.

                                      What you are seeing is high leakage current - a.k.a. the capacitor is loosing charge between [+] and [-] plates as if there is a small-value resistor placed in parallel with the cap. This leakage current is essentially fooling your meters into thinking the caps have larger capacity - which they don't!

                                      This is why there is also a tolerance specified on the capacitance... and for electrolytics, this is typically 20%. So a 3300 uF cap can read as low as 2650 uF or as high as 3960 uF and still be considered in-spec.

                                      My advice, however - at least for ultra-low grade electrolytic capacitors - is to be wary of them if they jump more than 15% high in capacitance. If they are at or close to 20% higher capacitance than printed on sleeve, they are probably EOL or nearly there and should be replaced.

                                      This is why I suggested you change these caps, even if they didn't look bad. Nichicon HM and HN with H01xx, H02xx, H03xx, and H04xx date codes are known to go bad like this. In addition, some HM, HN, and HZ series with H05xx date codes (particularly 6.3V -rated caps) have had problems too. United Chemicon KZG and KZJ series, along with Sanyo WF usually fail in the same way. All of these are ultra-low ESR motherboard-grade capacitors.

                                      It's not that all ultra-low ESR motherboard-grade capacitors have these problems, but the ones listed above often do. So if you see these anytime, always check them.
                                      Last edited by momaka; 08-31-2020, 05:33 PM.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: 3300uf 6.3v for xbox

                                        Originally posted by momaka View Post
                                        ^ That's completely normal... for BAD/FAILED/FAILING Nichicon HM and HN caps, anyways.

                                        What you are seeing is high leakage current - a.k.a. the capacitor is loosing charge between [+] and [-] plates as if there is a small-value resistor placed in parallel with the cap. This leakage current is essentially fooling your meters into thinking the caps have larger capacity - which they don't!

                                        This is why there is also a tolerance specified on the capacitance... and for electrolytics, this is typically 20%. So a 3300 uF cap can read as low as 2650 uF or as high as 3960 uF and still be considered in-spec.

                                        My advice, however - at least for ultra-low grade electrolytic capacitors - is to be wary of them if they jump more than 15% high in capacitance. If they are at or close to 20% higher capacitance than printed on sleeve, they are probably EOL or nearly there and should be replaced.

                                        This is why I suggested you change these caps, even if they didn't look bad. Nichicon HM and HN with H01xx, H02xx, H03xx, and H04xx date codes are known to go bad like this. In addition, some HM, HN, and HZ series with H05xx date codes (particularly 6.3V -rated caps) have had problems too. United Chemicon KZG and KZJ series, along with Sanyo WF usually fail in the same way. All of these are ultra-low ESR motherboard-grade capacitors.

                                        It's not that all ultra-low ESR motherboard-grade capacitors have these problems, but the ones listed above often do. So if you see these anytime, always check them.
                                        Thanks for clearing that up. I was baffled. When I saw the low ESR rating, I thought I replaced them for nothing. I feel better now. I actually replaced 4 caps in total tonight. I plan on doing more or less all of the electrolytic's when I have more time. Here is what I replaced tonight...

                                        The three 3300uf HM's got replaced with 3900uf Rubycon ZLQ's and the larger 3300uf 10v cap got replaced with two Panasonic 2200uf 10v FM or FC I forget.
                                        Attached Files
                                        Last edited by Per Hansson; 10-11-2020, 04:34 AM. Reason: Offsite image uploaded
                                        --------------------------------------------------------------
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                                        16GB Patriot 3600MHz
                                        MSI B450 Gaming Plus
                                        MSI Air Boost Vega 56
                                        Acer 32" 1440P Freesync
                                        Rosewill Capstone 750W
                                        --------------------------------------------------------------
                                        Hakko FX-888D Station
                                        FX-8802 Iron
                                        MG Chem .8mm 63/37 RA 2.2%

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