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    #41
    Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

    Originally posted by inkragonor View Post
    The last time we got it started, we left it on for at least three or four weeks. Then, it got turned off by a power outage and we cannot get it to turn on at all. I searched around the internet, and thank God I found this forum.

    It seems that the Hanns G had it's problems, but apparently they can be fixed.
    What you are describing above sounds like bad capacitors. The caps probably have high ESR (ohms). When the monitor heats up the ESR drops allowing the monitor to turn on and stay on.

    These caps do not have to be bloated in order to be bad.

    Open it up and post pictures (no inline please) using the manage attachments feature.
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      #42
      Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

      Post your pictures. Can you clarify, do you have any indication of power on the monitor when mains is switched on/plugged in and or on button is pressed? Is there any sign of life?

      Do you have a meter to check voltage and resistance available? If the monitor is completely dead, you will need something to do some basic checks. Have you used a meter before?

      Goes without saying, as a novice, you need to take care around potentially lethal voltages, mains etc.

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        #43
        Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

        I forgot to mention that a "simple" test would be to take a hair dryer and warm up (for about 30 to 60 seconds) the capacitors on the power board and see if the lcd powers on.
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          #44
          Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

          Originally posted by Mikeley View Post
          Post your pictures. Can you clarify, do you have any indication of power on the monitor when mains is switched on/plugged in and or on button is pressed? Is there any sign of life?

          Do you have a meter to check voltage and resistance available? If the monitor is completely dead, you will need something to do some basic checks. Have you used a meter before?

          Goes without saying, as a novice, you need to take care around potentially lethal voltages, mains etc.
          Didn't know what ESR was, but Wikipedia solved that. From what I gathered, the ESR is the resistance in the capacitors in question. When they are cold, the resistance is SO high, that the monitor won't start?
          I like the idea with the hair dryer. I'm going to give it a shot tomorrow when I can take it down to the storage unit and work on it. The kids can't get their hands on it down there.
          Mikeley, I have NO indication of power. My wife and I took turns trying to get it to come on by pressing the power button slowly every second or so... but our fingers grew tired. It used to power up eventually doing that last month, but now it's done. The blue ON light flashed for one second and went out... and that was one out of at least 1000 attempts.
          Yes, yes. I have a cheap little meter I can use. I'll send pics tomorrow. And I took a semester of basic electronics during my college when I was studying physics. But that's was almost 20 years ago. But I've never dealt with something as complex as this monitor. I hope it goes well.

          Another bit of info... when I got the monitor used in Atlanta, it turned on okay. After using it for a few months, would turn on, but took about 10 to 30 minutes for the picture to come on. Then we moved to Iceland which uses 220V. We just got fiber optic internet and TV, and we hooked up this monitor with the HDMI. Well, almost right away it was hard to turn on, and just got worse with time until we left it on forever... and now it won't turn on again. I brought a step down transformer, so I can test with 110V if needed. Not sure the voltage makes any difference, but want to get all the facts out on the table before I start. I'd hate to waste time on it if it's a lost cause.
          Thanks guys!

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            #45
            Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

            Oh, the monitor accepts 110 or 220V, so I found a computer power cord with a european plug on it and have been using that. Much better than using those cheap-o american to euro adapters. I'll post pics tomorrow... we are 5 hours ahead of eastern time, so it's time to sleep here.

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              #46
              Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

              Originally posted by inkragonor View Post
              From what I gathered, the ESR is the resistance in the capacitors in question. When they are cold, the resistance is SO high, that the monitor won't start?
              Yes, that is the idea. Heat kills caps or dries them out. When caps die, their ESR rises and/or the uF is out of spec (a 1000uF cap might measure 25uF).

              I like the idea with the hair dryer.
              Just heat up the caps. Try not to damage the other areas of the board (maybe use cardboard to protect everything).

              After using it for a few months, would turn on, but took about 10 to 30 minutes for the picture to come on.
              Again, the above sounds consistent with caps that have high ESR. It takes 10 to 30 minutes for the caps to warm up and their ESR to drop before the TV starts.

              Here is the same monitor and root cause was dry caps.

              https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...Hanns-G+HG281D
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                #47
                Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

                Took monitor apart. Checked to see if voltage was reaching the power board, it measured 230V. Checked on the other side of what I believe is a fuse (marked F1 on board, see picture), and it measured 230V also.

                I'm not sure I'm doing this right, but I also checked the outputs that are marked 24V, 12V and 5V, but they all measured 0V. Am I right to measure the output voltage in volts DC? Also, I connected the meter to the main negative coming in from the wall.

                I hope the pics are okay. I can take more. Also, I see one big capacitor under the heat sink marked 420V, 150uF. Am I going to have to remove that heat sink? It's soldered down.

                Also put a picture of the meter I have. Hope it'll do.
                Attached Files
                Last edited by inkragonor; 01-11-2011, 08:14 AM.

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                  #48
                  Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

                  I just picked up two of the Hannspree monitors (HF289H) that has the same power board and I replaced the capacitors shown below with slighty higher voltages for the bigger ones, and the small ones I did the same values. I got one to work just fine, but ran out of capacitors for the 2nd one, so hopefully it's the same fix.


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                    #49
                    Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

                    Originally posted by Ritalin View Post
                    I just picked up two of the Hannspree monitors (HF289H)
                    Good job on the repair and thanks for sharing.

                    PS. Please, we prefer that you do not post inline and use the manage attachment feature so that the picture is posted here and not offsite. Offsite has the potential for unwanted popups and other nasty URL redirection.
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                      #50
                      Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

                      Originally posted by inkragonor View Post
                      Checked on the other side of what I believe is a fuse (marked F1 on board, see picture), and it measured 230V also.
                      Yes, that is a fuse in your picture.

                      Am I right to measure the output voltage in volts DC? Also, I connected the meter to the main negative coming in from the wall.
                      Yes, you want to measure DC voltage on the secondary side. Your ground, though, should be a ground screw closest to your measurement point. That is, put your black probe on a ground screw.

                      Am I going to have to remove that heat sink? It's soldered down.
                      Yes, you will eventually have to remove it because there are at least 2 smaller caps underneath that heat sink.

                      For the hair dryer test, try heating up the 8 caps on the right hand side of the power board.
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                        #51
                        Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

                        Hey guys... I'm back!

                        I just got my Logic board caps in yesterday and replaced them, albeit with one hell of a struggle; Those things did NOT want to come off! They used some really crappy looking solder on this board. It was all dark gray and oxidized looking, and kept a very coagulated consistency when liquified. Very difficult to remove with a solder sucker. The best way I found to deal with it was to heat both legs of a cap up at once and just slather a bog ol' ball of 60/40 rosin core solder over both pins, then suck it all up.

                        This is a tricky board to work with though, because it's double sided - etched on both sides. With each cap, one pin was connected to a trace on the back of the board and the other to a trace on the front side of the board. This means that when using a solder sucker on the pin connected to the back, the solder comes right up. But when you attempt the same with other pin, only the surface solder comes up... because the rest is all stuck down inside the lining of the hole in the PCB. The trace from the front side goes through the hole to the back side, then terminates in a very small surface "ring" to which the component is to be soldered. So the main contact point is INSIDE the hole.

                        I had to destroy quite a few of the old caps by pulling them off their pins and then just pulling the pins out individually while melting the solder from the back side. This left many instances where the hole was left clogged with solder. In those cases, I stuck the iron tip (very pointy) into the hole on the front side of the board and used the solder sucker on the opposide side to suck it through. (This worked well, but a couple of PCB traces came up in the process... SO BE CAREFUL!) After a while, I realized another method worked even better: Slip one pin of the new cap all the way through the hole that's open and just lodge the other pin into the clogged hole. Then, pushing down on the cap from the front, heat the clogged hole from the back side and it will slide right through.

                        Also, something to be careful with is the installation of the 4 largest caps along the IC... the 2 470uf and the 2 "taller" 100uf caps next to them (taller then the OTHER 100uf caps found elsewhere on the board). The replacement caps will likely be a bit shorter and fatter, so you'll want to stage 2 or 3 of them at a time BEFORE YOU SOLDER THEM to make sure they're positioned properly for a fit. I had to kind of tweak a couple off to the side, etc., to provide a little more clearance.

                        Conclusion:

                        The logic board caps were definitely my problem. The power board caps were causing the thing to run extremely hot, but replacing all of them had absolutely no effect on the video problems I was having. This was absolutely necessary, however, as, if nothing else, they were causing my electricity bill to go thru the ceiling with this thing, and causing some kind of scary-high temperatures inside the case to boot. It runs so cool now there's hardly any heat coming off of it at all after hours of use.

                        The only issue I have now is that there seems to be a bit of discoloration along the sides and two parallel areas of discoloration along the center, side by side. What it actually APPEARS to be is possibly some darkness on the flourescents - like they're getting old and burned a little bit. But that's just a guess. It's definitely that "yellowish" color that is often times related to bad fl. lighting. But there are a couple of issues that preclude me from being able to get to the bottom of it without more work:

                        #1. I accidentally counted the caps wrong and was one 10uf 16v cap short... so I looked at all of them with a magnifying lense and chose to keep the one cap that appeared to have no corosion visible around the top crown of it.

                        #2. Upon installing one of the 470uf 16v caps (the largest ones), I may have pulled on it a little too hard trying to adjust the legs after installation (they were too wide, so I had to bend them to get them to go in with proper clearance). I *may* have damaged the cap in the process, but I'm not sure at all.

                        So either of these 2 points could be the problem... OR, it could just be that the entire logic circuit has changed enough with the new caps to bring to light some another issue - namely, old fl bulbs that need replacing.

                        I'm not worrying about it too much though, because the only time it's visible is when I have a giant, maximized empty IE window with a bright white background emblazened across the entirety of the screen. And I try to avoid that annoying sight as much as possible anyway.

                        It is also worth mentioning that I always used to have barely visible vertical lines of shimmering pixels that would rapidly "sparkle". They were only visible when inspecting the screen very closely, and seemed to be background dependent. They appeared to me to be related to the other screen issues that would appear whenever the monitor was not wanting to cooperate and would keep shutting down, coming back on, etc.

                        Also, when it would shut down, sometimes it would come back on with a distorted screen. It would be like there were 2 screens superimposed upon one another, with one slightly shifted off the right side of the screen and wrapped around back over on the left side. It would have to shut down again to get corrected.

                        All of these issues are now Solved. Other than the very minor backlight issue, the screen is absolutely PERFECT and I couldn't be happier!

                        Thanks again to all you wonderful people who helped on this thread. You gave be the confidence to tackle something I never dreamed I could handle... which saved me about $200!

                        All the best,
                        Steve
                        Last edited by stevekasian; 01-11-2011, 04:26 PM.

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                          #52
                          Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

                          Originally posted by stevekasian View Post
                          The logic board caps were definitely my problem. The power board caps were causing the thing to run extremely hot, but replacing all of them had absolutely no effect on the video problems I was having.

                          It runs so cool now there's hardly any heat coming off of it at all after hours of use.
                          Normally, caps on the logic board are not subject to the same abuse/heat as the power board.

                          But if your monitor ran that hot, it could have dried out all the caps on the logic board.

                          Glad to see you got it resolved. Good patience.
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                            #53
                            Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

                            Originally posted by retiredcaps View Post
                            Yes, that is a fuse in your picture.
                            Thanks. It seems to be working fine.

                            Originally posted by retiredcaps View Post
                            Yes, you want to measure DC voltage on the secondary side. Your ground, though, should be a ground screw closest to your measurement point. That is, put your black probe on a ground screw.
                            I tried again with the ground at the hole next to the outputs, but still get zero at the 24, 12, 5 and 5SB(?). What could cause that? Can capacitors do it?


                            Originally posted by retiredcaps View Post
                            Yes, you will eventually have to remove it because there are at least 2 smaller caps underneath that heat sink.
                            Done. New pics attached.

                            Originally posted by retiredcaps View Post
                            For the hair dryer test, try heating up the 8 caps on the right hand side of the power board.
                            Can I still do the hair dryer test? I've got the monitor all taken apart. I guess I only need the ON light to ignite to know if it works or not... I'll try tomorrow.

                            New question: I hope it's just the capacitors, so now I need to know what to do with them. Is it best to buy the new ones first, then switch them one by one? What do I need to know to buy the same capacitors?

                            I've only been living here since April, and I don't know any stores that have electronic components. Where does one get capacitors? Mail order? Of course then I have to pay tarriffs (~15%) and taxes(~25%). Yeah, importing to Iceland sucks! How much do capacitors cost? Sorry to be such a newbie!
                            Attached Files

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                              #54
                              Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

                              Originally posted by inkragonor View Post
                              I tried again with the ground at the hole next to the outputs, but still get zero at the 24, 12, 5 and 5SB(?). What could cause that? Can capacitors do it?
                              Normally, I put all the screws back in so I know I have a good ground point.

                              If you are still getting 0V DC, then you have another problem.

                              You should be getting 230V AC x 1.414 (rectified) roughly 325V DC across the main filter capacitor (the big one). Set your multimeter to 1000V DC.

                              Be careful, this is very high voltage. Report what you found.


                              Can I still do the hair dryer test?
                              Not until you get power.

                              Is it best to buy the new ones first, then switch them one by one? What do I need to know to buy the same capacitors?
                              You need to know the uF, voltage, height, and diameter.

                              Where does one get capacitors? Mail order?
                              Once it gets to that stage, most here like digikey.com. You can get good quality caps like Panasonic FM there. Caps cost less than $1 USD each.
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                                #55
                                Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

                                Originally posted by inkragonor View Post
                                New pics attached.
                                BTW, we would prefer one overall topdown picture of the power board versus 5 chopped up sections.
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                                  #56
                                  Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

                                  @retiredcaps: I believe he is saying he is reading no voltage on the DC outputs. If that is the case, would that not be expected if the "standby" circuit was not coming out of standby and allowing power flow in the rest of the circuit?

                                  That's my logical deduction, but I don't know so I'm deferring to you :-).

                                  @inkragonor: As for those caps at Digi-Key, I can tell you that any of the FM & FC caps will fit perfectly. I am attaching a copy of my order so you can enter the part numbers into the "Part #" field at their website if you like. Mouser Electronics was actually cheaper by a dollar or so for the whole order, but I saved on 1st Class Mail shipping with Digi-Key so I went with them.

                                  Under "Customer Reference", I added voltages in parentheses which refers to items where I was able to increase the voltage rating from the original without increasing the size of the cap.

                                  Also added Logic Board caps as well :-)
                                  Attached Files
                                  Last edited by stevekasian; 01-11-2011, 08:52 PM.

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                                    #57
                                    Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

                                    Originally posted by inkragonor View Post
                                    [...]Where does one get capacitors? Mail order?[...]
                                    Getting them online would definitely be cheaper, especially if you order more than a few, but I'm pretty sure you could get them from Íhlutir (Skipholt 7) and/or Miðbæjarradíó (Skúlagata 63). I'm going to go over this thread again, see which capacitors have been mentioned (and, frankly, see if this all makes more sense to me the 3rd time around) and I'll check with Íhlutir tomorrow. They know me so I might be able to squeeze out a little discount, regardless of the decimated economy.

                                    That's all I have to contribute at the moment, due to my utter ignorance on the matter, but I'm so glad I found this thread! I have two of those big boys, see, and they're both failing (one for the second time). I'll try not to bother y'all much; I'll mostly be lurking and learning.

                                    Stevekasian: Kudos and a hearty Mazel Tov! Well done and a prime example of sticktoitiveness.

                                    Inkragonor: Are there any tools you need at this point? If you're interested, I'd be more than happy to offer whatever help I can. Again, though, this is all Greek to me at the moment, so I don't honestly know how helpful I'd be.

                                    Badcaps veterans: Fantastic work! I don't think I've ever seen such a helpful bunch on a messageboard... *tips hat*

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                                      #58
                                      Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

                                      Originally posted by stevekasian View Post
                                      That's my logical deduction, but I don't know so I'm deferring to you :-).
                                      Hmm, let me re-read this the thread again. I could be getting confused with another problem(s) that I'm helping on.

                                      Multiple power supplies in one device is a head-ache.
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                                        #59
                                        Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

                                        @nkragonor:

                                        New question: I hope it's just the capacitors, so now I need to know what to do with them. Is it best to buy the new ones first, then switch them one by one? What do I need to know to buy the same capacitors?
                                        I went through and wrote down the item numbers of each of the caps printed on the PCB along with their respective ratings. Then I double checked them.

                                        Next I ordered the caps and removed each of the old caps from the board in the interim. When I did so, I checked each rating against what I'd written down AGAIN, just to be sure.

                                        When installing the new caps, I checked the labels on the baggies that the caps came in against my list and pulled them out one by one as I installed and soldered each of them in. Sometimes in 2s if they were close together and had the same rating. And upon inserting each of the caps into the board to solder them, I checked the markings on the cap with my notes to be absolutely sure I didn't mix anything up.

                                        I've made some dumbass mistakes in the past with mixing up part numbers, polarities, etc. (Oh yea, always double check your polarities to!), and I didn't want this to be another case of same.

                                        Also: Definitely make note of any PCB traces that become damaged, unstuck, etc., and pay attention to those notes when installing the new caps! I forgot that I'd lifted one of the traces around a hole for one of the caps when desoldering it, and when I put the new one in I just jammed the lead through the hole and it almost got caught on the loop in the trace and peeled it completely off. BAD DEAL. I got lucky and it didn't completely detach - Don't make the same mistake!
                                        Last edited by stevekasian; 01-11-2011, 09:16 PM.

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                                          #60
                                          Re: Hanns-G HG281D 28" TFT - Multiple Problems

                                          Originally posted by retiredcaps View Post
                                          You should be getting 230V AC x 1.414 (rectified) roughly 325V DC across the main filter capacitor (the big one). Set your multimeter to 1000V DC. Be careful, this is very high voltage. Report what you found.
                                          @retiredcaps: I tested the voltage on all the caps and put my notes into one image file. See attachments. Many of the caps have 0V, and only ONE has 3.5millivolts. What could that mean?
                                          Sorry about the chopped-up pics I posted before, I thought those might be useful. This time I've got full top-down pics.

                                          Originally posted by stevekasian View Post
                                          I've made some dumbass mistakes in the past with mixing up part numbers, polarities, etc. (Oh yea, always double check your polarities to!), and I didn't want this to be another case of same.
                                          @stevekasian: Capacitors have a polarity, meaning a positive and negative terminals? How can you tell which is which? Does that line down the side indicate it? Also, thanks for the list of capacitors! I went through and found and indexed each one, accounting for the ones with upgraded voltages, which I marked with a "u" for upgrade.


                                          Originally posted by VladTI View Post
                                          ...but I'm pretty sure you could get them from Íhlutir (Skipholt 7) and/or Miðbæjarradíó (Skúlagata 63).
                                          ...I'll check with Íhlutir tomorrow. They know me so I might be able to squeeze out a little discount, regardless of the decimated economy.
                                          Are there any tools you need at this point?
                                          @VladTI: Holy cow, are you in RVK? I guess so if you are offering to lend some tools! I wouldn't mind borrowing some tools if you have the right stuff. I only have a 100W soldering gun, which isn't precise at all; big rounded tip. I think it's more for automotive work. I've lost the soldering iron with the pointy tip in the move from Atlanta.
                                          Thank you for checking on the capacitors here locally. I would rather get them here and pay a little more than to wait two or three weeks to get them by mail. There is a list of them on the attached image called Index.
                                          I agree with you 100% on the helpfulness of the veterans and everyone! There is no way I would have tried to fix this without the help on this forum.
                                          Attached Files
                                          Last edited by inkragonor; 01-12-2011, 07:12 PM. Reason: added close up picture of burned area

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