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    USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

    Another one of these silly patented methods to lock out manufacturers... It goes both ways I suppose, prevents crappy chargers but...

    LOCKS OUT THE TINKERER!

    Anyone know if these 9V 2A (18W) USB charger protocol has been hacked? I suppose this shouldn't be too hard to reverse engineer (at least I would think it is) - supposedly these high speed charge capable devices can poll the charger whether it supports 18W and then manually switches to this mode, and then the charger can automatically and immediately shut off 9V when the device gets unplugged.

    What I'm wondering is if these chargers have a USB host implementation in it... would think that it needs to.

    #2
    Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

    Are you talking about USB Type-C chargers here? The USB Type-C specification can be programmed to deliver up to 20V and a maximum of 5A through negotiation on the configuration channel.
    My first choice in quality Japanese electrolytics is Nippon Chemi-Con, which has been in business since 1931... the quality of electronics is dependent on the quality of the electrolytics.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

      No, this is an older quick charger standard, uses a regular USB-A 4-pin connector.
      I believe Qualcomm is holding this patent.

      https://www.qualcomm.com/news/snapdr...logy-explained
      Last edited by eccerr0r; 10-28-2016, 07:21 AM.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

        Hmm... knew I posted something about this before.

        Just wondering if anyone did some experiments with this. As far as I can tell, at 18W with 4+ volt lithium ion cells, at 100% conversion efficiency (HAH) these charger can pump 4 amperes into a cell phone battery. This is insane, though most smartphones are like 4Ah or so so this would be near 1C charge rate.

        However I've noticed that though it does occasionally hit 1C charge rate, frequently it drops down to 8W charging. I've never been able to see on charging apps whenever it hits 1C charge rate, is this typical for most phones to simply try to reduce heat generation, and never use 1C charge rate when someone's using the phone?

        (and when the phone is not being used, it will then use 1C charge rate? But not always? Have you caught your phone charging at 1C?)

        Comment


          #5
          Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

          I am going to be watching this post for educational purposes
          9 PC LCD Monitor
          6 LCD Flat Screen TV
          30 Desk Top Switching Power Supply
          10 Battery Charger Switching Power Supply for Power Tool
          6 18v Lithium Battery Power Boards for Tool Battery Packs
          1 XBox 360 Switching Power Supply and M Board
          25 Servo Drives 220/460 3 Phase
          6 De-soldering Station Switching Power Supply 1 Power Supply
          1 Dell Mother Board
          15 Computer Power Supply
          1 HP Printer Supply & Control Board * lighting finished it *


          These two repairs where found with a ESR meter...> Temp at 50*F then at 90*F the ESR reading more than 10%

          1 Over Head Crane Current Sensing Board ( VFD Failure Five Years Later )
          2 Hem Saw Computer Stack Board

          All of these had CAPs POOF
          All of the mosfet that are taken out by bad caps

          Comment


            #6
            Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

            USB-C is a connector,

            your refering to "QC2.0 or 3.0" or similar which is a communication protocol to command the charger to increase output.
            most QC compatable chargers have a regular TYPE-A socket on them.

            if you go to sites like MAXIM you can download datasheets for charger chips that support these things

            Comment


              #7
              Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

              With Quick Charge, they are using higher charging voltages than 5V in order to be able to not increase cable and connector size.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

                USB-C charging spec (versus USB-C connector) is better than QC2/QC3, alas yes I'm only talking about QC2/QC3 which many phones appear to still use over the USB-C charging spec, even if it has a USB-C connector... my crap cheap phone is such, it has a USB-C connector but uses the QC protocol over the USB-C connector.

                It appears the USB-C charge protocol has been either documented or hacked, was curious about QC protocol initially... now that I have three QC chargers it's not much of an issue for me anymore, though still curious...

                Still surprised my 8-year old phone will still occasionally draw 17W from the wall through its adapter to charge its battery.... at 17W it must be charging quite close to 1C charge rate with its 3Ah battery pack.

                My "new" crapphone also with QC will likewise occasionally draw 17W+ from the wall, again with efficiency loss this is expected. A 5Ah battery pack, dumping 4A into the pack is not quite 1C but that's what's necessary to fill the pack closer to an hour instead of several hours...

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

                  all the fucking phone makers have their own protocols btw,
                  samsung, htc, apple etc.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

                    QC and USB-C charging are "standards" ... but as usual, there are so many standards to choose from.
                    Seems Asus and OnePlus seem to use the same QC protocol and the chargers can be swapped without an issue...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

                      iPhone and iPad use there own system that does seem to work like it has been described the most that you can charge with is 2.5 amps but your voltage has to be no higher than 5.25 volts or it turns off and refuses to charge correctly anymore until you power cycle it

                      So I do not have the voltage higher than 5.21 volts and I use a medical grade switching power supply that has a voltage controller circuit that is very easily adjusted to what ever voltage from 4.75 to 5.75 volts
                      Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 05-30-2022, 04:06 AM.
                      9 PC LCD Monitor
                      6 LCD Flat Screen TV
                      30 Desk Top Switching Power Supply
                      10 Battery Charger Switching Power Supply for Power Tool
                      6 18v Lithium Battery Power Boards for Tool Battery Packs
                      1 XBox 360 Switching Power Supply and M Board
                      25 Servo Drives 220/460 3 Phase
                      6 De-soldering Station Switching Power Supply 1 Power Supply
                      1 Dell Mother Board
                      15 Computer Power Supply
                      1 HP Printer Supply & Control Board * lighting finished it *


                      These two repairs where found with a ESR meter...> Temp at 50*F then at 90*F the ESR reading more than 10%

                      1 Over Head Crane Current Sensing Board ( VFD Failure Five Years Later )
                      2 Hem Saw Computer Stack Board

                      All of these had CAPs POOF
                      All of the mosfet that are taken out by bad caps

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

                        apple stuff is easy, you indicate the charger current with 4 resistors
                        2 voltage dividers - one for each data pin.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

                          Originally posted by stj View Post
                          apple stuff is easy, you indicate the charger current with 4 resistors
                          2 voltage dividers - one for each data pin.
                          I've done so on one of my solar chargers. Works perfect.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

                            I was referring to the charging protocol for charging with USB C type chargers I have a couple of them they do not charge any different than a usb a type cable I have a IPhone SE 2020 that came with a USB C cable

                            I have one of those usb tester that shows you what charging profile and it not show it as the iPhone profile the newer iPad does not show up this way either so I do not what is up with this

                            I know that the device works correctly because I have the charging devices that are 9 12 15 and 20 volt and they show up correctly
                            Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 05-30-2022, 05:07 AM.
                            9 PC LCD Monitor
                            6 LCD Flat Screen TV
                            30 Desk Top Switching Power Supply
                            10 Battery Charger Switching Power Supply for Power Tool
                            6 18v Lithium Battery Power Boards for Tool Battery Packs
                            1 XBox 360 Switching Power Supply and M Board
                            25 Servo Drives 220/460 3 Phase
                            6 De-soldering Station Switching Power Supply 1 Power Supply
                            1 Dell Mother Board
                            15 Computer Power Supply
                            1 HP Printer Supply & Control Board * lighting finished it *


                            These two repairs where found with a ESR meter...> Temp at 50*F then at 90*F the ESR reading more than 10%

                            1 Over Head Crane Current Sensing Board ( VFD Failure Five Years Later )
                            2 Hem Saw Computer Stack Board

                            All of these had CAPs POOF
                            All of the mosfet that are taken out by bad caps

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

                              I think my Asus and Oneplus, despite being QC, will also happily draw 10W from a 5V USB brick. Alas, I was more interested in how QC works as a standard USB power brick better not be outputting 9V if not asked for -- for those non QC devices that would release magic smoke at 9V.

                              I really need to get a bona fide USB volt/current meter, but I'm pretty sure pumping 18W via 5V will make a lot of USB cords cry foul when trying to pass more than 3A. At 9V it's a lot more manageable.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

                                Originally posted by eccerr0r View Post
                                ….—>I really need to get a bona fide USB volt/current meter, but I'm pretty sure pumping 18W via 5V will make a lot of USB cords cry foul when trying to pass more than 3A. At 9V it's a lot more manageable.
                                When you find one that is good please post a link to one because

                                I have tried a couple of them and not very impressed with them because they are very picky about showing the charging type if it has a usb type a this is the only ones that I can find but they also have usb type c also
                                which to me is not going the way to go you have to find a usb type c input and a usb type c output and no other type of usb connectors on it for best results ( but I have not yet found one to buy )

                                I have tried to hack a couple of them and each time I have fry something on the board or destroy the boards because most of the ones that I have tried to do there a minimum of two boards and one of them had three of them and the components are so tightly packed together I have given up trying to hack them just going to make a wall one into a table model and add a cooling fan and be done with it

                                Because I on having a couple devices that are meant for this type of charger
                                Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 05-30-2022, 12:39 PM.
                                9 PC LCD Monitor
                                6 LCD Flat Screen TV
                                30 Desk Top Switching Power Supply
                                10 Battery Charger Switching Power Supply for Power Tool
                                6 18v Lithium Battery Power Boards for Tool Battery Packs
                                1 XBox 360 Switching Power Supply and M Board
                                25 Servo Drives 220/460 3 Phase
                                6 De-soldering Station Switching Power Supply 1 Power Supply
                                1 Dell Mother Board
                                15 Computer Power Supply
                                1 HP Printer Supply & Control Board * lighting finished it *


                                These two repairs where found with a ESR meter...> Temp at 50*F then at 90*F the ESR reading more than 10%

                                1 Over Head Crane Current Sensing Board ( VFD Failure Five Years Later )
                                2 Hem Saw Computer Stack Board

                                All of these had CAPs POOF
                                All of the mosfet that are taken out by bad caps

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

                                  I also wonder... what happens if you put 9V into a QC2/QC3 compliant device with no other intelligence? I.e. take a 5V dumb charger and set it to 9V, and plug in the QC2/QC3 device... will the device fry?

                                  Definitely if you connect a non QC compliant device into this 9V dumb charger it will fry, but will QC compliant devices also fry...

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

                                    Originally posted by sam_sam_sam View Post
                                    iPhone and iPad use there own system that does seem to work like it has been described the most that you can charge with is 2.5 amps but your voltage has to be no higher than 5.25 volts or it turns off and refuses to charge correctly anymore until you power cycle it

                                    So I do not have the voltage higher than 5.21 volts and I use a medical grade switching power supply that has a voltage controller circuit that is very easily adjusted to what ever voltage from 4.75 to 5.75 volts
                                    The newer iPhones that support USB-PD seems to quick charge on standard chargers that support that protocol. It's a bit more more common than QC

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

                                      Problem with QC2/QC3 is that you need electronics to tell the device that the charger is indeed capable and to trigger the QC. But I thought the number of QC capable phones out there is fairly significant (a lot of android phones), just that the number of third party QC chargers is small, if that's what you mean.

                                      You know, now I'm tempted to see what happens if I try to charge with a standard 5V2A (10W) charger and if I increase the voltage to 5.5V...and see what the QC capable phone does...

                                      Comment

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