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aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

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    aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

    This 1 in 4 out YWR RCA jack only device has no brand marking and originally came from MCM Electronics. I remember not when. I might have bought less than 10 years ago, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was made closer to 20 years ago. An equivalent match to it is no longer available new AFAICT. I depend on it daily, and as it didn't seem to be up to snuff any more, I opened it up to find its 7 largest caps to be Scatronice brand 10X17 cans 470uF with no markings to indicate date or series. 3 were oozing. 6 were marked 16v, the other 25v. ESR was high on all, but how high varied a few hundred percent. All but 2 tested in the 530-550 uF range, the others above 470 but less than 530. Not wanting to put it back together with its original leakers, I replaced all with the only thing I had that was close, Jackcons (purchased from Jameco probably over a decade ago, before knowing anything more about caps than leaking and swelling were bad, and not to replace 105C with 85C), 470uf 25v in 8X15. Each tested under 470uF, but at least 427uF, ESR .06-.07 ohms. I replaced all 14 non-major brand and unbranded smaller caps as well, 1uF X5, 22uF X2, 47uF X2 & 100uF X5. For some I had recent Panasonics, but for the rest, more old new stock from Jameco.

    It works vastly better now, but I'm not sure whether good as new, or good as it could be. I might be imagining it, but it seems output from it could be a tad darker than input to it, and there's still very slight horizontal echo from white letters on black backgrounds, and from venetian blinds and other strong horizontals adjacent to solids. I'm hoping there's a non-zero chance it could be improved over the smaller Jackcons in it now, in performance and/or in potential longevity, by:

    1-replacing those 8X15 cans with something close as I can get or maybe bigger than the original 10X17s maybe Nichicon PW, 10X16.

    2-going to 560uF instead of 470uF, since the originals mostly tested closer to the higher than to their labeling, again, maybe Nichicon PW, 10X20.

    3-replacing the newly installed small Jackcons as well, even though they all tested OK, and very close to each other.

    Any comments or suggestions?

    #2
    Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

    Do you have a picture of the inside of this unit? This would be helpful.
    My first choice in quality Japanese electrolytics is Nippon Chemi-Con, which has been in business since 1931... the quality of electronics is dependent on the quality of the electrolytics.

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      #3
      Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

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        #4
        Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

        when in doubt, just fill it with panasonic FR series.
        specially as they are all leaking some strange pink electrolyte!

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          #5
          Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

          General purpose units would suit this unit, since it does not have a switching power supply.
          My first choice in quality Japanese electrolytics is Nippon Chemi-Con, which has been in business since 1931... the quality of electronics is dependent on the quality of the electrolytics.

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            #6
            Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

            low esr gives better audio response though.

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              #7
              Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

              Originally posted by stj View Post
              when in doubt, just fill it with panasonic FR series.
              Makes sense, absent more information, but EEU-FR1E471, the only FR 470uF/25v/5mm I see available from Mouser & Digikey is only a 10x12.5 can, which seems like it would be minimally different in volume from the 8X17s I already installed. Does coming from a top tier brand in a smaller can make up enough difference from a bigger can from elsewhere to justify a redo? Seems considering the originals averaged closer to 560uF than to 470uF at whatever their ripe old age is, like EEU-FM1E471 10x16 would make better sense if I'm to take the trouble to redo, and FR for the small uF values.
              specially as they are all leaking some strange pink electrolyte!
              That's #406A Cherry Chrome in Wet & Wild brand, which I have no idea where I bought. If you know who sells it, let me know, as this bottle is running low, and getting hard to open and close.

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                #8
                Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

                if you need a panasonic in a smaller can then fk series is the option.

                i'v never seen a 470uf cap in 5mm - i would suspect anything like that to be a missprint(lie) and be junk!

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                  #9
                  Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

                  Potential perils of a smaller than original can size is one of the primary sub-topics of the thread. 5mm meant lead spacing of the relatively diminutive 10mmX12.5mm FR 470uF/25v, the 10mmX17mm originals, and apparently, most 10mm wide cans.

                  As yet, no one has had anything to say about the high measured uF of the originals removed. What about using GP EEU-FC1E561B instead of low impedance EEU-FM1E471 or the still smaller low ESR EEU-FR1E471? I remeasured the originals and wrote it down this time:
                  16v
                  465 .16
                  477 .45
                  502 .40
                  516 .30
                  525 .23
                  528 .14
                  25v
                  519 .09

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                    #10
                    Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

                    i just recomend FR for just about anything now because they are latest generation caps from pana and are very cheap - cheaper than the inferior FC/FM for example.

                    FR = Long-life and Low-price.
                    a perfect combination.

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                      #11
                      Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

                      With >4400 posts here in 5 years I'm sure stj you have the experience to know whether FR is better.

                      That said, no one stands much chance to sell me on anything by simply claiming "latest generation". My experience with "latest generation" is that often as not, even with whatever new features new brings, it's equivalent to feature loss and/or shorter life expectancy. I really don't like trying to maintain status quo equating to needing to depend on eBay or self repair as a substitute for replacing broken with new because of NLA features, things like:
                      1-L & R input level controls with audio level meters
                      2-unconditional PIP/POP (if any PIP and/or POP at all)
                      3-dedicated (locate via touch) remote buttons (instead of touch panel)
                      4-overused (quick to wear out) cursor/exit buttons on remotes
                      5-instant response CH Up/Down and input select buttons
                      6-MTS on RF CH3/4 to remote TVs (if any RF out at all)
                      7-cable operated throttles instead of potential quit-via-RFI
                      8-aerators and outdoor faucets what don't make it take an eternity to fill a pot with water or impossible to successfully douse a fire
                      9-power up meaning turn on now instead of wait...booting
                      10-OSDs that can be turned off
                      11-internal power supplies (power plug fits anywhere/everywhere)
                      12-keyboards with function and shift keys where one average adult hand can hit all at once (by touch even)
                      Yada.

                      Back to topic, if I'm going to use FR, why not 8mmX20mmX5mm EEU-FR1E561LB?

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                        #12
                        Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

                        if it fits - fine.

                        btw, latest gen with caps simply means longer lifespan.
                        it's all about the chemicals, and they are constantly trying to improve them.

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                          #13
                          Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

                          Originally posted by mrmazda View Post
                          That's #406A Cherry Chrome in Wet & Wild brand, which I have no idea where I bought. If you know who sells it, let me know, as this bottle is running low, and getting hard to open and close.
                          What's the point of painting the tops of the caps?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

                            Originally posted by cheapie View Post
                            What's the point of painting the tops of the caps?
                            I can tell at a glance I put it there, which is less taxing on my aging memory.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

                              You’re A/V amplified output box looks like a MCM 32-4430 from around 1998.

                              Frequency range: 20Hz-10KHz
                              Isolation: 30dB minimum
                              Video input: 75ohm
                              Audio input: 20Kohm
                              Operates from 15V/300mA adaptor

                              The MCM catalog does not say if the wall wart power supply has a AC output or DC.
                              Wonder if the power supply could be causing any problems?

                              All 4 outputs are just amplified pictures of the single input so if the picture looks worse look at what is common to every output.

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                                #16
                                Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

                                If you check the internet, there is a 6 output version 32-4435, I found 3 different versions, one uses +5vdc, one +12vdc and one uses +15vdc, It should be labeld on the rear as to what dc adaptor it uses.

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                                  #17
                                  Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

                                  Mine uses +15V 300mA. I think it is indeed a 32-4430, purchased from MCM in August 2000. Wall wart output unloaded is 23.1V. Loaded will have to wait until I get a round tuit for uninstalling it again to put FRs in it.

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                                    #18
                                    Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

                                    Originally posted by stj View Post
                                    if it fits - fine. btw, latest gen with caps simply means longer lifespan. it's all about the chemicals, and they are constantly trying to improve them.
                                    Just to be clear, if it isn't going into a power supply or something else sophisticated, where the original junk had no evident series marking, if there's an FR with matching uF and V, it's safe to choose it? Ripple can be assumed adequate even in a substantially smaller can?

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                                      #19
                                      Re: aged composite A/V distribution amplifier

                                      ripple capability with FR is going to be several times better atleast than an 85' cap

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