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Old 08-28-2021, 06:47 AM   #1
AJ847.63e
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Default 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

Hi all,

Trying to fix up a 820-01598 I bought and it looks like the isl has a few small chips in the surface of it. They look just superficial but wanted to confirm whether it would need replacing or not. The bigger one is on the right hand edge and the other two are on the sides. I was told to reflow the chip as we suspected it was the fault of pPbus missing there are no shorts to be found and may of created these chips when tapping it with the tweezers during the reflow.

Image:

Sorry image does not seem to be imbedding so here’s the link: https://ibb.co/87x5YzS

If I do have to replace it does anyone have any luck with Ali express for these? Only place I could find em. Otherwise I’ll have to buy a iPhone charge case, does the 11 one have the isl9240? What are my chances of pulling it and installing? Never reballed anything before so I wouldn’t want to risk this.

Thanks for your assistance.

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Old 08-28-2021, 11:04 AM   #2
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

The small top side chips look superficial only. Do not believe that you will have issues from these dings.

Is the voltage rail generated by this device missing?

You no longer need to hunt for the isl9240. They are flowing on the market through AliExpress. Ask each vendor if they are 100% new and not reballed.

This device is very small and you will need special tools and proper experience to reball the part.

Replacement will be easier but still requires hot air tools, small top soldering iron like JBC style with a nice needle tip. Tweezers to remove the part with low air pressure.

Then flux the solder pads. Then tin with leaded solder. Next remove / flatten the pads with desolder braid using a knife tip (JBC). Clean with alcohol the entire region.

Apply flux and fresh isl9240 and solder down with high heat (500-550c works for me due to multilayer pcb) but low air pressure at 20-30 on our tool. The isl9240 will melt into place. Finally, a bit more flux and higher air pressure (70) to heat till the chip dances into position. Hot air from top side only else it will go flying. Just my procedure for such repairs.

Do watch some YouTube videos on isl9239 replacement which is the same procedure.
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Old 08-28-2021, 08:22 PM   #3
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mon2 View Post
The small top side chips look superficial only. Do not believe that you will have issues from these dings.

Is the voltage rail generated by this device missing?

You no longer need to hunt for the isl9240. They are flowing on the market through AliExpress. Ask each vendor if they are 100% new and not reballed.

This device is very small and you will need special tools and proper experience to reball the part.

Replacement will be easier but still requires hot air tools, small top soldering iron like JBC style with a nice needle tip. Tweezers to remove the part with low air pressure.

Then flux the solder pads. Then tin with leaded solder. Next remove / flatten the pads with desolder braid using a knife tip (JBC). Clean with alcohol the entire region.

Apply flux and fresh isl9240 and solder down with high heat (500-550c works for me due to multilayer pcb) but low air pressure at 20-30 on our tool. The isl9240 will melt into place. Finally, a bit more flux and higher air pressure (70) to heat till the chip dances into position. Hot air from top side only else it will go flying. Just my procedure for such repairs.

Do watch some YouTube videos on isl9239 replacement which is the same procedure.
Thanks for the info.
Yea ppbus is missing.

Ppdcin_g3H @ pin 1 of R7020 I is 5.16 so yes it is getting it.

Diode mode for L6900: 0.400.

pin @ r7020: 5.15v
Aux_DET @ r7016 1.278v
VDDA @ C7075 1.2V
VDDP @ c7077 1.203v
CHGR_AMON @ tp5919 0v ( also checked at r5439 again 0V. The test point layout on the board view is different to my board).
CHGR_BMON @ TP5922 0V. Was not able to find an alternative location to test.

VDDA & P measurements is what made me believe the isl is faulty.

Iíll try get one from Ali express see how I go. Really donít want to reball one Iíve never reballed anything so Iím convinced Iíll crack it.

Iím going to try another reflow see if that helps. I tried getting it to dance yesterday but it did not look like it budged hence why I brought in the tweezers. Iím using the quick 851dw what temps should I use? I was at 360 full air and it did not want to budge so I think I was too low.

If that doesnít solve it Iíll get a replacement pre balled from Ali and fingers crossed.
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Old 08-28-2021, 09:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

Not at work now but believe we have the same tool from Best? Ours has the touch panel for the settings.

Personally like to use:

1) amtech 559 (?) flux (AliExpress)

2) apply the flux on top of this chip if you believe it is required to reflow. The flux will evaporate as it works. You can clean up the excess with a q-tip and 99% IPA (alcohol).

3) air at 30%. Higher air pressure like 60-70 does melt the solder faster but you must handle with great care else this and/or surrounding parts will go flying off the board. Where there is the risk of this event, apply kapton tape to protect the small nearby parts.

4) temp at 500-550(max on our hot air tool) C. Start with 500C. Higher may be required for dense boards with heavy ground plane.

5) the heat will quickly turn the flux to be very fluid

6) move the hot air around the top of the chip but keep about 3-6 inches away. You do not want to blow the chip off the logic board. You can experiment with other donor boards to get the feel. After 30-60 seconds, the solder should melt to allow for your tweezers to move the target part. Never force the move but gently tap with the tweezers. For bga parts, great to use this process to reflow liquid damaged parts. Also good for qfn, soic, etc.

When all melted, the part will do the dance if gently nudged. Do not move it too much else the underside will short to other nearby balls. Also listen for a slight crack sound which is just before the ic balls melt.

The above is from our experience. Others may have other ideas to share.
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Old 08-28-2021, 09:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mon2 View Post
Not at work now but believe we have the same tool from Best? Ours has the touch panel for the settings.

Personally like to use:

1) amtech 559 (?) flux (AliExpress)

2) apply the flux on top of this chip if you believe it is required to reflow. The flux will evaporate as it works. You can clean up the excess with a q-tip and 99% IPA (alcohol).

3) air at 30%. Higher air pressure like 60-70 does melt the solder faster but you must handle with great care else this and/or surrounding parts will go flying off the board. Where there is the risk of this event, apply kapton tape to protect the small nearby parts.

4) temp at 500-550(max on our hot air tool) C. Start with 500C. Higher may be required for dense boards with heavy ground plane.

5) the heat will quickly turn the flux to be very fluid

6) move the hot air around the top of the chip but keep about 3-6 inches away. You do not want to blow the chip off the logic board. You can experiment with other donor boards to get the feel. After 30-60 seconds, the solder should melt to allow for your tweezers to move the target part. Never force the move but gently tap with the tweezers. For bga parts, great to use this process to reflow liquid damaged parts. Also good for qfn, soic, etc.

When all melted, the part will do the dance if gently nudged. Do not move it too much else the underside will short to other nearby balls. Also listen for a slight crack sound which is just before the ic balls melt.

The above is from our experience. Others may have other ideas to share.

I donít believe so, if your referring to the quick 861dw that does not have a touch screen. Itís the same hot air station MR Rossmann and most techs use. Best value for money without spending > 1K.

Thanks for advise Iíll give it a try this arvo and report back.

Could it be anything else causing the vda and vdp rails to be so low? There are no shorts that can be found so thatís not pulling the rail down so their is either a open line somewhere or a chips not generating its line.
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Old 08-29-2021, 05:12 AM   #6
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

You may be facing a bad ISL9240.

See here,

https://boards.rossmanngroup.com/thr...t-5v-0a.60834/

These are very fragile parts. Be sure to order some spares. Found some on AliExpress for about $4 usd each.
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Old 08-29-2021, 05:34 AM   #7
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mon2 View Post
Not at work now but believe we have the same tool from Best? Ours has the touch panel for the settings.

Personally like to use:

1) amtech 559 (?) flux (AliExpress)

2) apply the flux on top of this chip if you believe it is required to reflow. The flux will evaporate as it works. You can clean up the excess with a q-tip and 99% IPA (alcohol).

3) air at 30%. Higher air pressure like 60-70 does melt the solder faster but you must handle with great care else this and/or surrounding parts will go flying off the board. Where there is the risk of this event, apply kapton tape to protect the small nearby parts.

4) temp at 500-550(max on our hot air tool) C. Start with 500C. Higher may be required for dense boards with heavy ground plane.

5) the heat will quickly turn the flux to be very fluid

6) move the hot air around the top of the chip but keep about 3-6 inches away. You do not want to blow the chip off the logic board. You can experiment with other donor boards to get the feel. After 30-60 seconds, the solder should melt to allow for your tweezers to move the target part. Never force the move but gently tap with the tweezers. For bga parts, great to use this process to reflow liquid damaged parts. Also good for qfn, soic, etc.

When all melted, the part will do the dance if gently nudged. Do not move it too much else the underside will short to other nearby balls. Also listen for a slight crack sound which is just before the ic balls melt.

The above is from our experience. Others may have other ideas to share.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mon2 View Post
You may be facing a bad ISL9240.

See here,

https://boards.rossmanngroup.com/thr...t-5v-0a.60834/

These are very fragile parts. Be sure to order some spares. Found some on AliExpress for about $4 usd each.
Yes thatís why i did not want to risk reballing it as itís a glass chip. Iíve ordered 6 off Ali, hopefully their genuine and working. Problem is Iím not going to know if there legit or not unless this solves the issue. Fingers crossed. They should be here by the 19th so bit of a wait. I did not get a chance to do the reflow again today so Iíll try that tomorrow and report back. Thereís nothing really in this area thatís heat sensitive is there? Last time I was on there for quite a long time and was worried I was overheating things. That was at 360 though max air, if I do it at max heat which is 500 for my 861dw and 30 air hopefully it will be a better reflow this time.
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Old 08-29-2021, 05:58 AM   #8
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

Yes, suggest higher heat but less air to start. You can increase the air if it does not melt the underneath balls.

30% is good for our tool at 500C. Sometimes we use 550C for heavy ground plane logic boards. We chose Best Tools as I have met them many times in HK at past trade fairs. They are a solid company and said they can sell us spare repair parts if needed to repair their tools.

Your isl9240 parts should be fine. They are quite common from overseas now. Just feel comfortable with the process and using with your tweezers. Move the hot air tip around in circles over the chip. When the solder melts the chip will move and/or sink down.

Good flux should be used as well. During the reflow, continue to gentle tap the part to see if can move. Be patient and it will work out ok.
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Old 08-29-2021, 06:01 AM   #9
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

Thanks, fingers crossed. Yes I’m using amtech 559V2TF bought from jessa @ iPad rehab. Only one I’ve tried so far, once it runs out I’m planning on trying the one Tim @ TCRS uses. I find the 559 burns too quickly, gets annoying constantly having to clean it off and re apply. Or maybe I’m not using it right. It’s the only flux I’ve used so far so not sure how it compares to others.

Watching a few videos online it looks like there’s multiple versions of the 9240. Are they all cross compatible? Not sure which one I’ve bought but the one on my A2159 is 9240HIB934PV and it looks like the ones found in the XR cases is 9240HIB906J7.

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Old 08-29-2021, 06:20 AM   #10
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

As far as we know, they are all the same. We were attempting to reverse engineer the ISL9240 but halted the project. We built a tiny FPC to breakout the source pads to probe points and then stopped as the ISL9240 are now readily available. I think that the ISL9239 and ISL9240 are very similar but made slightly different to cause us techs pain by Intersil / Renesas. We did contact Renesas for any help but they are contractually bound to secrecy by the fruit company. The version you sourced should work out fine. On the flux, we purchased some low cost versions off Aliexpress and are very pleased with the results. Ironically we wanted to buy from Amtech directly in bulk volumes but the company is a joke to deal with. Went on for months in chats and amounted to nothing. I think they are seriously in bed with Louis which is fine but do not yank our chains and waste our time. We are in the business for 36++ years to date and could have moved the product. They are very old school as Louis mentioned in his posts. I think there are many good suppliers of flux on the market and you can clean up the residue with IPA (we use the medical grade stuff from Costco with success).
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Old 08-29-2021, 06:27 AM   #11
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mon2 View Post
Not at work now but believe we have the same tool from Best? Ours has the touch panel for the settings.

Personally like to use:

1) amtech 559 (?) flux (AliExpress)

2) apply the flux on top of this chip if you believe it is required to reflow. The flux will evaporate as it works. You can clean up the excess with a q-tip and 99% IPA (alcohol).

3) air at 30%. Higher air pressure like 60-70 does melt the solder faster but you must handle with great care else this and/or surrounding parts will go flying off the board. Where there is the risk of this event, apply kapton tape to protect the small nearby parts.

4) temp at 500-550(max on our hot air tool) C. Start with 500C. Higher may be required for dense boards with heavy ground plane.

5) the heat will quickly turn the flux to be very fluid

6) move the hot air around the top of the chip but keep about 3-6 inches away. You do not want to blow the chip off the logic board. You can experiment with other donor boards to get the feel. After 30-60 seconds, the solder should melt to allow for your tweezers to move the target part. Never force the move but gently tap with the tweezers. For bga parts, great to use this process to reflow liquid damaged parts. Also good for qfn, soic, etc.

When all melted, the part will do the dance if gently nudged. Do not move it too much else the underside will short to other nearby balls. Also listen for a slight crack sound which is just before the ic balls melt.

The above is from our experience. Others may have other ideas to share.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mon2 View Post
As far as we know, they are all the same. We were attempting to reverse engineer the ISL9240 but halted the project. We built a tiny FPC to breakout the source pads to probe points and then stopped as the ISL9240 are now readily available. I think that the ISL9239 and ISL9240 are very similar but made slightly different to cause us techs pain by Intersil / Renesas. We did contact Renesas for any help but they are contractually bound to secrecy by the fruit company. The version you sourced should work out fine. On the flux, we purchased some low cost versions off Aliexpress and are very pleased with the results. Ironically we wanted to buy from Amtech directly in bulk volumes but the company is a joke to deal with. Went on for months in chats and amounted to nothing. I think they are seriously in bed with Louis which is fine but do not yank our chains and waste our time. We are in the business for 36++ years to date and could have moved the product. They are very old school as Louis mentioned in his posts. I think there are many good suppliers of flux on the market and you can clean up the residue with IPA (we use the medical grade stuff from Costco with success).
Yes amtech do sound very set in their ways which is a shame. Surprised they didnít want to work with you, pretty slack. There definitely loosing a lot of sales as their website looks so old and archaic I thought it was another fake website hence why I bought it off Jessa. Might try some MG chemicals next as well, itís available locally so it should be a lot cheaper for me. Heard good things about it a lot of people like it.

Thanks for the clarification and explanation on the pin outs. Yes it would not surprise me if apple told them to swap two pin outs and thatís the only difference. Iíll post back again tomorrow once Iíve done the reflow. Thanks again for your assistance.
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Old 08-29-2021, 07:18 AM   #12
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

Personally bought and did not use the MG flux which is a very dark flux and came in a jar link pond's cream. Looks to be more suitable for plumbing than electronics. It was from Amazon. Regret that purchase as the residue so so sticky.

Here is what we purchased and am very pleased with the product:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3282...27424c4dpc7Aml

This came with the needles, etc. Excellent results to date. Slight smoke but you can use an exhaust fan to draw that away from your face.

Will order more as there are shipping restrictions for such items using AIR couriers. They know how to ship it the best to you but often is the very slow shipping methods. Good luck and update this thread with your progress.

PS: As a suggestion, you can always talk with a local cell phone repair shop that does logic board repairs and ask them for some good flux at a fair cost. We do this often with our store and walk-ins.

Last edited by mon2; 08-29-2021 at 07:20 AM..
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Old 08-29-2021, 10:23 AM   #13
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

This is of course fake, not genuine Amtech product. Some are good, some are bad.
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Old 08-29-2021, 10:56 AM   #14
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

Quote:
This is of course fake, not genuine Amtech product. Some are good, some are bad.
Agreed, but we gave their US office far too many chances to carry their product. From the vibe we received, they are only wanting to sell through Louis in the US. We have a strong presence on Amazon and could have pitched it at least across Canada, possibly USA with our discounted shipping rates.

The above flux from Aliexpress appears to do the trick just fine. Honestly do not even know what the real Amtech flux is like as it is not available here in Canada. The last time we looked, it was being sold at crazy pricing from a reseller in the UK. That is one way for the factory to grow their business

PS: Now see "Amtech Distribution" on amazon.ca but know that they are not the factory but someone from Florida shipping the goods. The factory is not tech savvy enough to be on Amazon. We recall the wholesale cost being around $12-$15 USD per tube. For that cost, we are willing to try the alternatives.
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Old 08-29-2021, 12:01 PM   #15
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Default Re: rz09-0329 Charges only in windows and disabling controller

Issue with buying this stuff from Aliexpress is that you can get good stuff one day and garbage the next day.
Chip Quik SMD291 is also a good flux and it should be easy to order in most places.
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Old 08-29-2021, 11:19 PM   #16
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mon2 View Post
Personally bought and did not use the MG flux which is a very dark flux and came in a jar link pond's cream. Looks to be more suitable for plumbing than electronics. It was from Amazon. Regret that purchase as the residue so so sticky.

Here is what we purchased and am very pleased with the product:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3282...27424c4dpc7Aml

This came with the needles, etc. Excellent results to date. Slight smoke but you can use an exhaust fan to draw that away from your face.

Will order more as there are shipping restrictions for such items using AIR couriers. They know how to ship it the best to you but often is the very slow shipping methods. Good luck and update this thread with your progress.

PS: As a suggestion, you can always talk with a local cell phone repair shop that does logic board repairs and ask them for some good flux at a fair cost. We do this often with our store and walk-ins.
Ok tried the reflow and need a good slap across the face. I was really struggling to get the heat in, man these boards take 10 times longer than the 3437 or 165. Finally got it molten and knocked it too hard with the tweezers so it was out of line. Tried to knock it back but it wouldnít budge so I turned the air up and it went flying. I thought ok no biggie I guess Iíll try my first reball. Went to wick the pads and ripped F2 NC_CHGR_EN_VR 1. Iím not lucky enough for NC to stand for not connected am I? GulpÖ

Does anyone know of any good online MacBook courses to take? Watching Paul and Tim and that is all well and good but itís not going to teach you the technique. I was thinking in enrolling with rewaw there doing a iPhone one sept 9 that may be worth it.
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Old 08-30-2021, 01:28 AM   #17
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

Ok managed to reball the chip and not too shabby if I donít say so myself.

https://ibb.co/3fJ6BVh

https://ibb.co/RHWZXdP

Well the bottom row are bigger than the rest but considering this is the first time Iíve ever touched a stencil and solder paste Iíd say not too shabby! I really need to get one of those chip holders though, itís hard keeping the stencil flat with enough pressure without walking or cracking the chip. Iím not going to put it on the board though, donít want to risk causing further damage to the board. Iíll just wait for my replacements to arrive and pray that pad I ripped is indeed NC. Please, Murphy, just this once throw me a bone!

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Old 08-30-2021, 06:16 AM   #18
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

The only way to figure out how to do microsoldering properly and especially advanced rework like ĶBGA is to practice. Of course on donor boards, not potentially repairable board worth $800 that may contain data.
Obviously you need the proper equipment for the job.
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Old 08-30-2021, 08:34 AM   #19
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

Quote:
Originally Posted by piernov View Post
The only way to figure out how to do microsoldering properly and especially advanced rework like ĶBGA is to practice. Of course on donor boards, not potentially repairable board worth $800 that may contain data.
Obviously you need the proper equipment for the job.
Thatís the problem though finding dead boards isnít exactly easy here, especially with eBay and everyone lying with the ďitís untestedĒ BS. I agree itís a waste but when the market forces it you just have to shrug and say stuff it.

Three macs Iíve bought off eBay, 165 and 3437. All three did not come with anything but the board, despite the listing being for the full system. And all of them had previous work despite being ďuntestedĒ. Two ended up being cracked pch and the other had a bit of liquid damage which I sorted it fan spun so I removed power, hooked up only the board and a USB keyboard and no matter what I do now I canít get it to boot again. Guy I bought this A2159 said he hadnít taken it to anyone. i get home and half the screws were missing as was the fan and the rubbers that go over the USB c ports so someoneís had the board out before me.

That torn pad though I mentioned earlier is that not connected? Is it worth me trying the isl I reballed or should I just wait for the new ones to arrive? Iím curious to see if my first reball actually worked, but I donít want it enough to risk damaging this thing further.

I decided to enrol myself in the rewa iPhone course, will be nice to learn some troubleshooting and solder techniques. Shame no one offers them locally, would be so much better in person!
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Old 08-30-2021, 08:57 AM   #20
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Default Re: 820-01598 Intersil 9240 chipped?

1) According to the schematics, F2 = No connect so I think you are safe here.

2) Rewa is a good company. They have many industry first videos for techs.
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