Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

[mon2]

Hi. Facing a quirky HP that does not want to work off battery. The 2 different battery packs we have are both heavily discharged. The laptop does turn orange to indicate that it recognizes the battery but not confident the charging is working.

Came across this tool:

https://www.laptopu.ro/product/profe...nalyzer-nlba1/

Anyone have any experience with this device ? Looks quite useful to us so placed the order for one a few minutes ago. Will update this forum after testing against our battery packs.

The public reviews are all positive. Just not liking the annual license for the RESET mode but rebuilding packs is not in our line of work. For now, we have skipped this purchase of the license.

[Spider1211]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

I've been wanting to get one of these for a while now but can't justify buying it yet. Video reviews seem pretty good. I think you get like 10 free resets on purchase after which you need to get the license.

[RethoricalCheese]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

For heavily discharged batteries I would say last time I checked, this thing doesn't support many chips. It's more for testing purposes.

So depending on your chip, you might want to buy be2works or ubrt instead.

On most HP batteries I have used be2works. They tend to have bq30z55 chips. Newer models have bq40z451 if I remember correctly.

[azzidoqsc]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

I've been wanting to get one of these for a while now but can't justify buying it yet. Video reviews seem pretty good. I think you get like 10 free resets on purchase after which you need to get the license.

I think you mean 10 free days. So, it could be 100 or 1000 batteries.

[azzidoqsc]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

For heavily discharged batteries I would say last time I checked, this thing doesn't support many chips. It's more for testing purposes.

NLBA1 device is an advanced analyzer. Reset Option can be used for Chip Reset and Programming.

So depending on your chip, you might want to buy be2works or ubrt instead.

The mentioned above names are only software, how do you charge a laptop battery ? or to calibrate ? or to discharge it ? or to measure the real capacity ?
P.S. UBRT costs up to 1000$ per year with almost 0 support.
be2works support is very poor (check their forum).

On most HP batteries I have used be2works. They tend to have bq30z55 chips. Newer models have bq40z451 if I remember correctly.

bq40z451 does not exist.
Newer chip family bq40zxxx is not supported by be2works at all, same for bq40xxx family. BQ9000 is a dream for be2works. NLBA1 supports them.

NLBA1 offers 10 FREE days while UBRT and be2works offer 0 seconds.
NLBA1 support community offers step-by-step guidance for each question, usually in 1-2 days (check their forum)

[RethoricalCheese]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

Yes, as I said, last time I checked, it was more for testing purposes until it gets a bit more supported chips. Otherwise I really liked the thing but it was totally useless for me in that state. Now it seems to support more chips but still lacks BQ30Z55 which I need most. BE2WORKS has it.

UBRT needs EV2300 (under 100€) and BE2WORKS needs CP2112 (under 3€ I guess). Both have some kind of charge/discharge/calibrate options but that's all I know because I don't need that.
I use a lab supply for charging anyway.

BQ40Z451 was actually BQ40Z551 what I meant.

And I am not promoting those 2 programs. It's just that it is pointless to pay for something like that without checking what chips are supported. You should first check what chips you have on your batteries and then buy the software accordingly.
Hardware isn't actually the important part here because it is quite simple. Mostly just a USB - SMBUS adapter, a power supply and an electronic load. Software does all the magic.

[azzidoqsc]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

Yes, as I said, last time I checked, it was more for testing purposes until it gets a bit more supported chips. Otherwise I really liked the thing but it was totally useless for me in that state. Now it seems to support more chips but still lacks BQ30Z55 which I need most. BE2WORKS has it.

NLBA1 team could offer remote unlock even for BQ30z55.
You are mentioning about BQ30z55 but why don't you mention about BQ304xx family used in tons of Dell Laptop Batteries ? This family is not supported by be2works too.

The new family BQ40xxxx is much more important. Not supported by be2works but supported by NLBA1.
Do not forget that NLBA1 unseals all theirs chip in 3-4 seconds why for be2works you need to discharge the battery (waiting for 2-3 hours). They don't have the full algo for unsealing, just a workaround.

UBRT needs EV2300 (under 100€) and BE2WORKS needs CP2112 (under 3€ I guess). Both have some kind of charge/discharge/calibrate options but that's all I know because I don't need that.
I use a lab supply for charging anyway.

As I said, NLBA1 is an ALL-in-one product. It has a built-in Smart Battery Charger. A laptop battery cannot be safely charged using a lab power supply, you can easily trigger the safety alarms. Take for example a Dell battery and try to charge it to 100% using only a power supply A laptop battery must be charged according to a standard, monitoring several parameters, adjusting the voltage and current, suspend the charging when needed and so on. This is for charging a laptop battery correctly.

Related to the discharging, there are some workarounds, using electronic load, bulbs, etc but not PRO. NLBA1 is able to compute the IR for each group of cells within few seconds. Much more comfortable to have everything in one device and one software.

BQ40Z451 was actually BQ40Z551 what I meant.

And I am not promoting those 2 programs. It's just that it is pointless to pay for something like that without checking what chips are supported. You should first check what chips you have on your batteries and then buy the software accordingly.

NLBA1 Reset option was added in February 2021, the focus was on the Analyzer. The team is really customer-oriented, they really want to train people on this top-secret domain of repairing laptop batteries. I know many people that paid for be2works which is not chip or ubrt and they just gave up because of NO support, they just spent their money for nothing. With 10 FREE days for the Reset Option and good support, the chances to repair laptop batteries are really high.

Hardware isn't actually the important part here because it is quite simple. Mostly just a USB - SMBUS adapter, a power supply and an electronic load. Software does all the magic.

Maybe for few batteries and for hobbies, as I said, you can't charge many batteries safely to 100% without triggering alarms. Dell batteries require special SMBus commands to activate charging and discharging. Charging a laptop battery is not just a CC-CV charging, parameters must be monitored and voltage/current regulated accordingly. Also, safety alarms must be monitored. Many laptop batteries require pulse charging near full charge, using a lab power supply the battery charging will just be stuck around SoC 80-90%.

Calibration i

[mon2]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

Wow. Some great feedback in this thread !!

So far, very pleased with the received support from the development team of this product. For us, we need a proper validation that we are not wasting our time with assorted battery packs. Originally were only after a stand alone charger for these packs but the discharge feature is welcomed so we can cycle and test the unit before releasing to our customers.

Do not care to fix old / confirmed dead packs as it is too time consuming and dangerous.

The other features are an added bonus like I2C bus dumps, etc. - shows that a great amount of research went into this tool.

BTW - the developer of this tool @nicusor is on this forum. Very nice to see I recall seeing his post in forum a few weeks ago.

Will update this thread as we receive and use this tool.

[RethoricalCheese]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

Well, you don't just give up

I don't mention BQ304xx because I don't need it. I have revived Dell batteries without using any kind of expensive tool. But for sure it is different for everybody. Btw, BE2WORKS has some BQ304xx support aswell.

Just give up on teaching me what to do because I know all of that (and looks like I know workarounds that you don't but that's not the point here). My only point was that you would need to take a look at what you try to revive and get a tool that can do it because none of these tools can do them all.

And as I said, I also wanted to buy NLBA1 but since it still lacks a few things I need, I will not do it YET. But if it supports the chips that original poster wants to work with then for sure this is the best thing to buy. Or if he just wants the charging/discharging/analyzer part, then again, it's the best tool to get.

Kinda seems like you are one of the developers of this product (since you defend it so hard and you also live in Romania). If it is so, then I wish you good luck. I will buy it when it is ready enough. Until then, can't get around that superexpensive ubrt and be2works. Hopefully it will change soon.

[azzidoqsc]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

Well, you don't just give up

I don't mention BQ304xx because I don't need it. I have revived Dell batteries without using any kind of expensive tool. But for sure it is different for everybody. Btw, BE2WORKS has some BQ304xx support aswell.

Did you try to repair Dell batteries bq304xx chips using be2works ? There are many chips on be2works website that I guarantee they are not supported.
Another example, try to clear PF errors from a Lenovo BQ8055A or BQ8030A using be2works. Even UBRT does not work for BQ8055A.
Also, try UBRT on BQ40z695, they claim it is supported but not.

Just give up on teaching me what to do because I know all of that (and looks like I know workarounds that you don't but that's not the point here). My only point was that you would need to take a look at what you try to revive and get a tool that can do it because none of these tools can do them all.

I am not teaching you at all. Which workaround I don't know ?
If you want to say that you are safely charge a Dell battery using a lab power supply then you are completely wrong. Dell suspends the charging after a timeout if the Enable Charging commands are not sent.

And as I said, I also wanted to buy NLBA1 but since it still lacks a few things I need, I will not do it YET. But if it supports the chips that original poster wants to work with then for sure this is the best thing to buy. Or if he just wants the charging/discharging/analyzer part, then again, it's the best tool to get.

Great. Can you give me details about your batteries you want to repair and their chips are missing on NLBA1 website ? how many batteries and the sbs report of them.

Kinda seems like you are one of the developers of this product (since you defend it so hard and you also live in Romania). If it is so, then I wish you good luck. I will buy it when it is ready enough. Until then, can't get around that superexpensive ubrt and be2works. Hopefully it will change soon.

You are lucky because you are working with a specific kind of chip. As I said before, send me information about your batteries.

[RethoricalCheese]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

Yes, I know that ubrt and be2works are terrible and lack support etc. That was not even my point. I am not trying to compare one to another. If I would have to, I would say overall NLBA1 is the best of them. It just wasn't what I needed when I needed such a tool.

For now, I have be2works and ubrt. Reviving macbook batteries is still an issue but I guess NLBA1 has the same problem (up to year 2012). If NLBA1 would have had Renesas chips supported, I would have opted for that. It doesn't so I needed to go with be2works. Luckily it supported BQ30Z55 aswell, which NLBA1 doesn't (according to webpage). Next I needed BQ40xx and some other. Ubrt was picked cause it had more chips supported at that point. It's really not a great tool but has done more what it was bought for.

Btw, every battery can be safely charged with a lab power supply by connecting it straight to the cells. In many cases it is not possible without extensive disassembly but I don't need to revive such batteries anyway. No need to charge it to 100%. Laptops can do it after reviving anyway.

And I will say again... Whoever is trying to choose, should look at what is supported. Otherwise it's just an awesome tool with no purpose to the user.

NLBA1 has great value, that I can say for sure. But I had no point in getting that without it having what I personally needed. I guess by the time ubrt needs a subscription update, NLBA1 is ready enough to get that instead.

[piernov]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

Please note that this is not an advertising place. As long as you stick to proven fact it's fine, there are a lot of misconceptions around laptop batteries so sharing information is good. Trying to convince people to buy a product/service is not. Make sure not to overstep that boundary.


About battery repair I'd personally not recommend attempting it. I haven't seen anyone with enough knowledge so that it can be done properly and safely yet. I myself don't have enough knowledge either, but I know that there is a lot involved in a BMS. Just look at the number of parameters of any of these chips and you'll understand it's far from being easy, configuration will be different depending on the cells and the application.

About testing batteries, having a tool can be nice, but nothing can confirm that the battery is good better than a working laptop. You can have a battery that seems to be charging and discharging fine but not handling ripple current well, or reporting weird stuff over SMBUS. Also the tool most likely cannot tell if a knockoff battery is missing a proper triggerable fuse and thermal cutoff devices for example… (thermocouple maybe)

[RethoricalCheese]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

Knockoffs mostly tend to use some totally random chips anyway so there's a high chance that it's not possible to modify them anyway.

I just throw them away. Same with chargers. If it's made of chinesium, it's straight to carbage.

[azzidoqsc]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

Btw, every battery can be safely charged with a lab power supply by connecting it straight to the cells. In many cases it is not possible without extensive disassembly but I don't need to revive such batteries anyway. No need to charge it to 100%. Laptops can do it after reviving anyway.

Please don't deviate, we are discussing about charging a laptop battery, not charging cells. Cells are cells, laptop batteries are laptop batteries. I have already explained that a laptop battery cannot be safely charged by a lab power supply. More, there are batteries that even stop the charging or discharging if a Charging or Discharging SMBus commands are not sent, see Dell for example. A laptop battery is a smart battery and must be always charged by a Smart Charge. Another example, take an Apple Macbook battery and try to charge it to 100% using a lab power supply. Most Apple Macbook batteries require a long pulse charging when the cells are almost full.

Related on "reviving", can you detail what do you mean by reviving ?

[RethoricalCheese]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

Laptops can be used to charge normally and test if it even works.

Usually reviving for me means to charge cells back to minimal acceptable voltage, wake up the chip, clear errors and let the laptop do the rest of the charging.

Let's say when battery cell voltages have dropped to 2.5V while staying in storage for too long and let's say the controller does not allow charging normally when it is below 2.8V for example, I would need to charge it a bit, wake up the controller and clear errors.

Inbefore "dangerous, don't do it etc etc"

[azzidoqsc]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

About battery repair I'd personally not recommend attempting it. I haven't seen anyone with enough knowledge so that it can be done properly and safely yet. I myself don't have enough knowledge either, but I know that there is a lot involved in a BMS. Just look at the number of parameters of any of these chips and you'll understand it's far from being easy, configuration will be different depending on the cells and the application.

Exactly, there are tens to hundreds of parameters that could be updated when you are working with laptop battery repair. Repairing laptop batteries is a top secret domain with very poor information on the public. NLBA1 team is capable to reprogram the chip parameters, we can even program the chips to support higher capacity, including the latest high voltage cells. That's why I am saying the support is the key in this field.

About testing batteries, having a tool can be nice, but nothing can confirm that the battery is good better than a working laptop. You can have a battery that seems to be charging and discharging fine but not handling ripple current well, or reporting weird stuff over SMBUS. Also the tool most likely cannot tell if a knockoff battery is missing a proper triggerable fuse and thermal cutoff devices for example… (thermocouple maybe)

NLBA1 charges the batteries like the motherboard does and not like a Lab Power supply, it includes a Smart Charger. A laptop battery has to be charged based on several parameters, one of them is called ChargingCurrent (also ChargingVoltage) if the ripple leads CC/CV to exceeds the threshold limits then Charging is suspended until the fault is removed. Some faults require a timeout.

I didn't get your last point. All laptop batteries have a thermal fuse as a redundant shut off path in case the failure is high.

[azzidoqsc]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

Laptops can be used to charge normally and test if it even works.

Exactly, you need a laptop for each battery type, if you have 10 different batteries you need 10 laptops to test them

Usually reviving for me means to charge cells back to minimal acceptable voltage, wake up the chip, clear errors and let the laptop do the rest of the charging.

Let's say when battery cell voltages have dropped to 2.5V while staying in storage for too long and let's say the controller does not allow charging normally when it is below 2.8V for example, I would need to charge it a bit, wake up the controller and clear errors.

Inbefore "dangerous, don't do it etc etc"

Laptop battery chips have Failure Flags. If at least one failure flag is set then the chip will never ever output voltage, the battery cannot be charged or discharged anymore since the fault is present. So, from my point of view the chips are in two states: Locked (with at least one PF set) and Unlocked (no PF set). If the chip is not Locked then you still can charge the battery, it does not matter the cells voltage, this is handled by the chip (BMS). If the cells are over discharged like you said, then even you apply a high voltage then the chip limits the current (called pre charge current) until the cells voltage are precharged.

If a chip is in Locked state, nothing can put it back in Unlock state, the transition is irreversible. No "reviving" possible anymore. The chip can be switched back to Unlocked state by clearing the PF flag. Clearing PF flag is only possible after a secure access. Most of the chips are well secured.

[piernov]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

Knockoffs mostly tend to use some totally random chips anyway so there's a high chance that it's not possible to modify them anyway.

I just throw them away. Same with chargers. If it's made of chinesium, it's straight to carbage.

Sometimes you don't have the chance of buying genuine original batteries unfortunately. Either because they are counterfeit or because they're just not available. It's a matter of finding the best quality, and it's not easy, and sometimes it doesn't exist.

NLBA1 charges the batteries like the motherboard does and not like a Lab Power supply, it includes a Smart Charger. A laptop battery has to be charged based on several parameters, one of them is called ChargingCurrent (also ChargingVoltage) if the ripple leads CC/CV to exceeds the threshold limits then Charging is suspended until the fault is removed. Some faults require a timeout.

Yes but I meant for discharging, laptops can create large ripple current when transitioning between power states.

I didn't get your last point. All laptop batteries have a thermal fuse as a redundant shut off path in case the failure is high.

Maybe you haven't seen the worst Aliexpress knockoffs then…
And even if they have a fuse, the low quality ones use a standard fuse, not one that can be triggered by the BMS when it enters permanent failure.

[azzidoqsc]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

Sometimes you don't have the chance of buying genuine original batteries unfortunately. Either because they are counterfeit or because they're just not available. It's a matter of finding the best quality, and it's not easy, and sometimes it doesn't exist.

Non genuine batteries have completely different chips, they are using their own Chinese chips which run poor firmwares. NLBA1 does not support Chinese chips for Reseting. In principle I won't recommend repairing laptop batteries which are non genuine.

Yes but I meant for discharging, laptops can create large ripple current when transitioning between power states.

This is a good point. This feature can be added in NLBA1 PC Software. Something like genereting a pulse pattern like -3A for 100ms, 0A for 500ms then -1A for 1s and so on.

Maybe you haven't seen the worst Aliexpress knockoffs then…
And even if they have a fuse, the low quality ones use a standard fuse, not one that can be triggered by the BMS when it enters permanent failure.

Oooo yes, non genuone batteries have poor hardware, even missing thermal fuse. I was talking only about genuine batteries. I don't waste my time with any non genuine battery.

[piernov]

Re: Universal Battery Analyzer tool NLBA1

If you are a third-party repair shop servicing Apple laptops for example, most of the times you just cannot get genuine original batteries. There are some aftermarket ones of decent quality, but a lot of garbage unfortunately.
I know some people have been designing adapters for NLBA1 to be able to connect batteries for MacBooks.