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    #1

    hawaiian breeze fan

    It died sometime after I turned it off last night. This morning when I turned it on, it would not come on. I unplugged and replugged and felt the motor turn on but watch the led's briefly come on then turn off then barely blink, before going completely dead.

    It looks like this.


    Taking it apart was a pain but I finally got to the panel, there's two lytic caps made by BOR or TBOR, they are 16v 100 uF and 1000 uF.

    Any one got any information on them? Should I replace them and with what?

    I also got a question about the polymer caps, I have two polymers with brown marks at the top of the caps. They don't look like others so I assume this is either by manufacturing or the discoloration means the cap is or has gone bad.
    Attached Files
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    #2
    Re: hawaiian breeze fan

    I replaced both lytic caps with nichicon HN 16v 1000uF and Panny FM 25v 100uf but the results are the same.

    It looks like the unit tries to power up watching the motor attempt to spin as in go/stop motion in split seconds on and off type thing.

    The only thing that could be the problem is the ZNR/MC1 or the big poly cap CBB22 or the blue poly next to the big black chip.

    Any ideas?

    Comment

      #3
      Re: hawaiian breeze fan

      I'm disappointed, no one knows anything?? not a clue?

      Is it my threads? Am I not giving enough information? Or do I just suck?

      Comment

        #4
        Re: hawaiian breeze fan

        This circuit really isn't that complicated.

        Input power is routed past the fuse and through the rectifier it's then filtered by the poly cap it's then passed through the zener diode the rippled voltage regulated DC is then passed through the larger lytic cap. Which filters it and provides the microcontroller IC with a somewhat voltage stable ripple free power supply. Very primitive but since this is made in China bargain basement stuff as much is nowadays I'm not surprised.

        The micro sends current to the base of one of the four transistors on the outskirts of the board this causes one of them to conduct from collector to emitter like a digital switch. Each of those wires go to a different tap on the motor winding to control the motor speed.

        Check the power supply at the microcontroller first if it checks out check the ceramic resonator the tiny blue thing directly on top of the micro. Again a cost cutting measure since an actual quartz crystal would cost more. You'll need an oscilloscope to check for a stable repetitive waveform or a DMM with a frequency counter function will be required to check this part for proper operation.

        If all of the above checks out the microcontroller probably is at fault I don't see any protection in that circuit for power spikes.

        Micros don't take kindly to poorly designed power supplies.
        Last edited by Krankshaft; 05-04-2011, 05:03 PM.
        Elements of the past and the future combining to make something not quite as good as either.

        Comment

          #5
          Re: hawaiian breeze fan

          Thank you I appreciate your response, I'm still learning. Sadly I don't have an O-scope or have knowledge on how to use one. Perhaps I should invest in USB one and learn. I also don't have DMM with frequency counter function.


          When you mean check the powersupply, do you mean check for voltages? or do I still need a O-Scope.

          But just incase I checked the volts at CBB22 poly cap it 3.5VDC but 117VAC and at the big lytic it's 5vdc.

          So in the event of no O-Scope what would be the first thing to replace to determine problem?
          Last edited by Mad_Professor; 05-04-2011, 06:24 PM.

          Comment

            #6
            Re: hawaiian breeze fan

            Sounds like a broken wire somewhere. I had one that did that in the middle of where it twists. Unplug it and do a continuity check (the one on the meter that chimes when you touch the tips together) and see if you are getting a connection from end to end on that wiring. Start at the plug and confirm those are good to the board. Wiggle the wires that go thru the twisty section.
            veritas odium parit

            Comment

              #7
              Re: hawaiian breeze fan

              Does the motor itself have a cap?
              Mann-Made Global Warming.
              - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
              -
              Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
              - Dr Seuss
              -
              You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
              -

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                #8
                Re: hawaiian breeze fan

                Well I tested all the wires for continuity, they check out fine.

                I plugged it in and messed with each one to see if their was a loose solder joint with the wires, but to no avail. Everything is controlled from the main board including power.

                One thing to note is that it randomly does come to life for few seconds and the motor spins up just as if I just plugged the thing in then goes dead and does the pulsing thing again this includes the control board too as in the LED1 pulses with the motor.

                Yes pcbonez there's a cap down there it's CBB61 seems common in fans, it's wired to two motors actually, the other one is for the oscillation motor.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: hawaiian breeze fan

                  If the motors are AC set up a temp cable and power them bypassing the PCB.
                  See if they run without the controller.
                  If they don't that cap is probably bad.
                  [IOW: Find out if it's the motor or the controller by 1/2-splitting.]
                  .
                  Could do the same for DC motors but you might have to sh*t a power source with the right voltage.
                  .
                  Mann-Made Global Warming.
                  - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                  -
                  Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                  - Dr Seuss
                  -
                  You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                  -

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: hawaiian breeze fan

                    That IC controller probably alternately switches that row of transistors off-on to achieve the different fan speeds.
                    -
                    There are several ways they could be used to do that.
                    [Power vs un-power multiple windings. Change current to the same windings.]
                    Without knowing what is at the other end of those wires it's hard to say.
                    .
                    Mann-Made Global Warming.
                    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                    -
                    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                    - Dr Seuss
                    -
                    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                    -

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: hawaiian breeze fan

                      The way they've been doing it for years before micro controllers and remotes came in the picture was either separate windings for each speed or one multi tapped winding. Based on the price point of this fan I'm betting it's one of the latter and nothing exotic.

                      Did you try rotating the motor shaft? I've had plenty of these cheap fans have their bushings go dry and they will no longer spin.
                      Last edited by Krankshaft; 05-05-2011, 07:55 AM.
                      Elements of the past and the future combining to make something not quite as good as either.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: hawaiian breeze fan

                        still sounds like the micro went sick.had one from a neighbor where the zener had drifted from running too hot.
                        the remote would stop responding and it would go full speed with all the led's lit.the 1/2w zener had blackened the board it ran so hot.used a 1w.was like a $300 unit from sharper image or brookstone.overpriced cheap junk.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: hawaiian breeze fan

                          Honestly right? A zener diode for voltage regulation what is this 1970? A discrete or all on one chip switcher would have been more appropriate especially due to the low current demand. With the dirt cheap cost of semiconductors crappy design like this is just inexcusable.

                          I thought Sharper Image went bankrupt are they still in business? Always overpriced junk in any case.
                          Last edited by Krankshaft; 05-05-2011, 01:08 PM.
                          Elements of the past and the future combining to make something not quite as good as either.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: hawaiian breeze fan

                            Hawiian Breeze fan symptoms youtube video

                            Ok... I took a video and upload it to youtube so you can see what I'm seeing.

                            I think the motor is ok, but I could be wrong it could be that CBB61 cap.

                            @PCBONEZ I'm not sure if this is an AC or DC motor and the wiring looks like I have a line and neutral and then three wires for speed control. The only labeling on the motor is DS10D T.P. I've been googling for it about 30 minutes with poor results.

                            I hope this makes it more clear.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: hawaiian breeze fan

                              Is there a big rectangular cap for the motor? Then that's an AC motor for sure.
                              Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                              Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                              A working TV? How boring!

                              Comment

                                #16
                                Re: hawaiian breeze fan

                                Looks like a random strand of wire is bonded to the IC with conformal coating and it may be grounding two pins.
                                Attached Files
                                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                                -
                                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                                - Dr Seuss
                                -
                                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                -

                                Comment

                                  #17
                                  Re: hawaiian breeze fan

                                  Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
                                  Looks like a random strand of wire is bonded to the IC with conformal coating and it may be grounding two pins.
                                  I look at it, it's glue or something I went ahead and scratch it off, then plugged it in and hope that was the problem, then sadly no.
                                  Last edited by Mad_Professor; 05-05-2011, 01:46 PM.

                                  Comment

                                    #18
                                    Re: hawaiian breeze fan

                                    What are the numbers on the IC [and logo].
                                    Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                                    -
                                    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                                    - Dr Seuss
                                    -
                                    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                    -

                                    Comment

                                      #19
                                      Re: hawaiian breeze fan

                                      Sonic
                                      SN8P2602BPB
                                      0783NKB07

                                      Comment

                                        #20
                                        Re: hawaiian breeze fan

                                        Sonix, actually. SN8P2602B

                                        A 95 page manual: https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...90923eb075.pdf

                                        Doubt that it's knackered, though. If it is, it's trashed as it's a factory programmed chip.

                                        Motor(s) or controller transistors make more sense.
                                        Last edited by Toasty; 05-05-2011, 05:26 PM.
                                        veritas odium parit

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