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Old 05-29-2011, 01:33 AM   #1
DChronos
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Default SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 Platinum, 1 cap leaked, need replacement help

Hi, this is my first post here, and I have a few questions I'd like to have answered, which I marked with a **... it's going to be a long post, so I can get all the details out of the way, so please bear with me.

I attached pics to show my board and pointed to the capacitor in pic 1 and 2.


I just found out 2 days ago that 1 of the capacitors on my Soyo SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 Platinum board had a small amount of leakage of fluid from the top and the top bulged slightly... the board is running perfectly fine right now, and it's the only capacitor that shows signs of being bad, but I've had this board since 2003, and have had it as my PC mainboard since 2004 or early 2005... but in that time, I have hardly worked this board at all. Seriously, minecraft is the hardest I ever worked this board.

The capacitor that leaked is one of the large capacitors up above the processor that are in parallel with 5 others, and the voltages in my board's BIOS appear just fine and within tolerance, with the +5 being within .02V, which is what this 6.3V capacitor is obviously filtering.

See pic 1, 2, and 3... and click here for large close up view of pic 1:
http://www.motherboards.org/images/r.../1268_p2_1.jpg

The info I got off the capacitor shows it's a SACON SZ (305 date code), rated at 150 Celcius, and is 2200uF 6.3V. I'm not sure on measuring the height, if it's measured from top to bottom, or if you measure from top to the pressed in spot where the bottom plug is held in... but it's 10mm diameter and 24mm from top to bottom, and 20mm from top to the pressed in spot on the side of the canister. (see pic 4)

** To replace this one capacitor, what would be the best choice that would stand up to use and last a long time? I'm probably going to replace all 6 in that row, as well as others, but I gotta get more info for the others before asking about those... unless someone here already seen and knows what to use.


OK, some problems I have seen...

I have seen a BSOD a few times (After my vid card was done and got taken out), maybe 3, but this is over the course of 2 months... and I am sure 2 of those were from sata connectors coming loose from vibration, since they used to be kept in by the vid card's heat sink fan. Since this is my only PC right now, and need to use it, I am hoping that it will be OK if I keep using it for the week until I replace the capacitors.

** Will I be able to last a week with this cap being bad if everything's checking out OK right now, and I don't do much but use the net and chat? Voltages look fine and are within tolerances in BIOS, especially +5V at 4.98, and no signs of instability... runs just like it did since I built this, and the capacitor that leaked is in parallel with 5 others. None are even warm to the touch... they feel just as warm as my fingertips, if only slightly more... half a degree.

** There is more, though... about 7 weeks ago, my AGP video card just quit for no apparent reason... it was acting up and having crashing going on every once in awhile, then suddenly wouldn't get to windows without crashing for the same reason, with ati2dvag.dll infinity loop error, but only with drivers installed... and my card was being detected 8 times by the hardware manager and the new hardware wizard. Could this have been a result of these capacitors aging and causing a problem in my card?


Anyway... some extra stuff.

I read through this thread here, and I think I have almost the same stuff as this board, but I'm going to make sure tonight or tomorrow morning before I turn the PC on, and try to get all the main large capacitors that may be going bad due to age so I can get what I should replace and with what:
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4564


The capacitors on my board are all SACON SZ series capacitors, but I don't see any oddity described where the vent is stamped after the sleeve is put on... I looked it over closely with the flashlight and clearly see a transparent sleeve and the vents go underneath it, showing no sign of being stamped on when I rub over any spot that appears to be so with a toothpick, and see it clearly where the vent runs under the black stripe... no marks.

** Also, I read something in another thread talking about capacitors stamped with a K style vent, and the guy said they are badly faked... I wanted to know what this K style vent signified (see pic 1 and 2 to see them). A certain smaller capacitor on my board all have this K style vent, while the largest have a sort of (>-<) shaped X style vent, and the smaller ones smaller than the K vent ones all have + style vents... the smallest have no visible vents.


Ok... sorry if I repeated myself a few times above. Now to list the capacitor that leaked.


So... what capacitor would be best for replacing this one, just so I can stay up and running long enough to get them all replaced?

I will look at my board and get the other capacitor values and list them all and ask which ones I should replace tomorrow sometime.

Thanks in advance for the help... at least let me know the best choice for this one capacitor, and if it would be ok to replace only that one and the 5 others in parallel with it temporarily.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pic 1.jpg (350.6 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg pic 2.jpg (136.3 KB, 75 views)
File Type: jpg pic 3.jpg (30.3 KB, 56 views)
File Type: gif pic 4.GIF (5.8 KB, 37 views)

Last edited by DChronos; 05-29-2011 at 01:44 AM.. Reason: attaching pics
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Old 05-29-2011, 02:19 AM   #2
DChronos
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Default Re: SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 Platinum, 1 cap leaked, need replacement help

Sorry to double post, but I'm very tired and forgot a few things to add, and it says I can't edit after 30 minutes (why?).

I am sure this capacitor leaked within the last 2 weeks or so, because I know I looked over those capacitors on my board after my vid card died, checking those just in case, and all were fine.

Voltages look fine and are within tolerances in BIOS, especially +5V at 4.98, and no signs of instability... runs just like it did since I built this, and the capacitor that leaked is in parallel with 5 others. Nothing else on the board looks damaged in any way, or singed, or anything, all looks about brand new, aside from some dust.



** A few last things I'd like to ask... what do you think caused this capacitor to go out like this? It didn't blow violently... it just bulged and leaked a little, and all the other 5 on the same parallel circuit are fine. Could my PSU have overloaded it? Is it just age?

My PSU is an Antec Earthwatts 430W power supply which is only about 3 years old, maybe 4... it doesn't seem to show any signs of problems, as my voltages are within tolerance, and my hard drives, inclduing my old oooollld 8 year old Ultra ATA drive are all running perfectly fine. Listing just so you have that info.

Oh, and... what exactly do those 6 capacitors do for the board? What are they filtering for, if you know or had to guess?


(also, couldn't delete the line "Now to list the capacitor that leaked.")

Again, thanks in advance for your reply, and I'll try to list all the major capacitors tomorrow.
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Old 05-29-2011, 04:56 AM   #3
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Default Re: SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 Platinum, 1 cap leaked, need replacement help

The reason it failed is simple. it is a sacon. those should NEVER have been used on ANY board, since they have 100% premature failure rates.

As for replacments for the row of 2200uF ones next to the CPU, use either these, these or these. Any of them should work. The caps in the first link I gave you are Solid Polymers. Generally, when replacing with solid polymer caps, you use caps with lower capacitance, which is why I suggested the 1500uF ones.
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Old 05-29-2011, 04:06 PM   #4
DChronos
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Default Re: SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 Platinum, 1 cap leaked, need replacement help

I'm not sure about changing the cap type.... could I have more info about modifying things like that? At the moment, I'm just looking to replace these with the same kind of caps, but with good ones.

I went ahead and got all the vented caps on my board and made a guide pic for anyone else that has this board, and for myself to mark them off. (see pic)

According to the thread below, it looks like this person had the same board, though I am sure the measurement for the 2200uf and 1500uf caps are 1mm off... as far as I see, they appear to be 24mm, not 25mm... though I didn't want to pull my board all the way out to look straight at the height. But I'm still certain after checking every which way I could that the height is 24mm.

Also, the temp rating I see on mine for the 2200uf and 1500uf says 150C. Maybe he just read his wrong.

http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4564

Quoted from thread:
Qty__Value___Volts__Size___ESR___Ripple
7___2200uF___6.3v__10x25__0.013__2700 <- I measured 24mm height
7___1500uF___16v__10x25__0.012__2800 <- and 150C on these 2
14__1000uF___10v___8x14__0.045__1050
10___470uF___16v___8x12__0.06___850

I have no idea how I look up the info for these SACON caps to find the ESR and Ripple... I'm only now learning about things like this, and am glad I didn't find a replacement at radio shack or elsewhere now.

Where could I find these charts of these SACON capacitors to find this info out so I know what to look for?

And also... I am planning to replace all 4 types of these vented capacitors on my board.... so what are the best choices for these 4 types, and what would you experts pick for replacement out of the choices?

And could you tell me more about if the size isn't the same, and about the type being different, and what it means for my board... and how my board will work if I do? Would you recommend doing this for the 2 large style capacitors?


Again, right now, I just plan on getting matching replacements to the originals, since this will soon be my secondary computer anyway, and since these sacon ones actually lasted for 6 years running, at least, before showing signs of problems... I figure any new GOOD caps I replace them with will last at least that long, probably much longer.

I am also looking at price, too, and don't really want to spend $14 or more just for replacing 7 of the capacitors that may never be worked enough to go out after getting the cheaper type of good caps anyway.

EDIT: Oops, transposed a few temps on the pic... uploaded new.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sy-p4i875p platinum vented capacitors.jpg (696.6 KB, 36 views)

Last edited by DChronos; 05-29-2011 at 04:18 PM.. Reason: edit pic for error
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Old 05-30-2011, 03:21 AM   #5
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Default Re: SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 Platinum, 1 cap leaked, need replacement help

for the 1500uF 16v caps, use these
for the 1000uF 10v caps, use these
(Yes, it is OK to substitute 6.3v caps for 10v ones. they are only on the 5v and lower rails).
for the 470uF 16v caps, use these

If your not comfortable polymodding, then either of the two electrolytics I linked in my previous post to would work just fine in place of the 2200s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DChronos
And could you tell me more about if the size isn't the same, and about the type being different, and what it means for my board... and how my board will work if I do? Would you recommend doing this for the 2 large style capacitors?
Are you talking about physical size or capacitance?

Different physical sizes are fine as long as the specs (ie. capacitance, voltage ans ESR) are compatible with your board. Changing the capacitance, on the other hand, is not recommended unless you know what the circuit is for and how it works. If you're new to recapping, just stick with the original capacitance and use motherboard-grade (ie. very low ESR) caps and you should be fine.

Last edited by c_hegge; 05-30-2011 at 03:29 AM..
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Old 05-30-2011, 12:57 PM   #6
DChronos
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Default Re: SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 Platinum, 1 cap leaked, need replacement help

Yeah, it was the capacitance mostly, but also, when I read the other thread, PCBONEZ was talking about how the can size matters a lot in ESR and ripple stuff... of which I have no idea what it means.

I can only go by what I C&P'd from that thread about my capacitors of what the ESR and ripple are from my SACON ones... I have no charts to look up my can size ad check those values to see which replacement ones have the same ESR and ripple.

I don't know what ESR does for the circuit, or what ripple does... I just have a basic understanding that the ripple has to do with the voltage fluctuation and smoothing it out, and maybe ESR is for heat dissipation...

When looking up ripple, it would be nice to know if lower or higher ripple and lower or higher ESR values than the SACON caps is better... and why it is, so I know.

So I was hoping for a very basic explanation of what to look for in ESR and ripple when picking replacements, and to know about what it does for my board if it's higher or lower.

By the way, thanks for helping me out so far. And yeah, this is the first time I'll be racapping a board, but far from my first time messing with electronics and soldering components in.
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Old 05-30-2011, 01:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 Platinum, 1 cap leaked, need replacement help

Quote:
Originally Posted by DChronos View Post
So I was hoping for a very basic explanation of what to look for in ESR and ripple when picking replacements, and to know about what it does for my board if it's higher or lower.
PCBONEZ explains it here

http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpos...30&postcount=7
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:19 PM   #8
DChronos
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Default Re: SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 Platinum, 1 cap leaked, need replacement help

Thank you for that info.

I was wondering, after reading some stuff about how the caps are working together and stuff with other components with the stuff like ESR and ripple... Mixing cap brands and series won't be harmful or anything, will it?

I've been tying to find the charts for the suggestions and find some of them are pretty far off from the values the guy in the other thread gave for the sacon caps... should I be worried about things like that?


I apologize if I'm worrying too much about how stable my computer will be with the suggestions.. well... only one person has given so far. I just want to be sure my system is going to run exactly the same as it did before, and can stand up to being upgraded and running what I have in it.

Right now, I have a Pentium 4 2.8C processor, OCZ 2-3-2-5 timing ram (2.5-3-2-5 default), an 80Gb sata drive, a 160Gb ultra ata drive, a 750Gb sata drive in a removable drive bay... a SB Audigy 2 ZS sound card with front bay thing... and I'll be putting in a Radeon X850 XT PE vid AGP card I got. I might be upgrading the processor to a 3.2 Ghz pentiuum 4 processor, too.

If things like the ESR and ripple can cause signal interference or something if they aren't working perfectly, and cause my system to be slow or not work right... well, a thread I read about another recapped soyo dragon black version board here that was recapped with rubycon caps being unstable comes to mind. The thread didn't really confirm things were fixed.

I just want to be absolutely sure on things here... like if I should match up certain brand and type capacitors if I'm replacing all 38 / 4 types of capacitors.

Again, sorry if I'm just worrying too much about the repalcements' specs not having exactly the same specs of these SACON ones, or are off on ripply by like 1000... such as going from 2700 to 3400 or more, and having ESR go from .013 to like .006(?).

I would like to find the 2200uF 6.3V 10x20mm rubycon mcz caps, since those go from 2700 -> 2770, and the ESR goes from .013 to .011, according to the charts... the 2200uf 10v 10x25mm ones will take me from 2700 -> 3230 and from .013 -> .009.

I really have no idea what tolerances I can work with on a strictly technical level...

Any help matching these all up would be greatly appreciated, unless I'm worrying too much about those things from that thread with the recapped board that didn't work.

EDIT:

Adding in a bit more... the 1500uf caps suggested here:
http://www.badcaps.net/store/product...products_id=38

The original caps are:
1500uF___16v__10x25__0.012__2800

and these suggested ones are:
1500uF___16v__10x20__0.011__2770

Just as an example... those have lower ripple, and the guide linked to me says I don't want a lower ripple than the original caps.

So that's one thing making me wonder...

Last edited by DChronos; 05-30-2011 at 06:48 PM..
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 Platinum, 1 cap leaked, need replacement help

on the vrm (ones next to the CPU). replace it with the same values if you possibly can, if you can't a 20% increase in uf is tolerable. just don't go down in voltage. when it comes to the ones around the CPU, try for just rubycons, it shouldent hurt anything. On occasion replacing some of the other random caps around your motherboard might suffer problems from lower ESR caps, but thats usually with the really small caps (like 470uf 16v and so on). replacing the ones around the VRM for your memory with low ESR rubys is ok too, also your AGP slot, and PCI slots. but usually the ones around your CPU are the the culprit for instability issues, as they are put under the most stress, hence most likely to fail first

sometimes after caps get bad and you use it for a long time they can damage other components, which is why some recapping fails, cause the caps stopped being the problem
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:58 PM   #10
DChronos
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Default Re: SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 Platinum, 1 cap leaked, need replacement help

Thanks, but the uf isn't the issue... I can find the correct uf values easy enough, and for most, the correct voltages are fine, too (if only for 10v instead of 6.3v).

It's the ripple and ESR that I'm worried about... I don't know what too low is for ESR, or too high for ripple.

According to the guide linked to me, it says something like it shouldn't be noticable if you have it 30% lower, but that isn't always the case... the thing is, the caps i'm seeing that have the same or higher ripple, since the guide says NOT to have lower ripple than the originals, have like 31% or lower ESR than the originals... as I stated above... and I don't know what the effect of that will be.

Right now, I'm mostly having difficulty picking the 2200uf 6.3v ones... I am trying to find out if there's anywhere that might still have the Rubycon MCZ 10mm x 20mm 2200uF 6.3v cap... since that is almost identical to the original with a slightly higher ripple and just slightly lower ESR.

But so far, I've only found 1 cap on ebay that ships from the US... and the rest of the auctions come from hong kong, and I don't think I'd trust non counterfeit stuff coming from there.

Last edited by DChronos; 05-30-2011 at 10:01 PM..
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Old 06-10-2011, 10:23 PM   #11
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Default Re: SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 Platinum, 1 cap leaked, need replacement help

Just posting the SACON SZ data sheets so others can see, since I forgot where it is I located it...

A value above is wrong... the thread I copied the values from misread the values of the 1500uF caps. They should be ESR 13 and ripple 2550.
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Last edited by DChronos; 06-10-2011 at 10:25 PM..
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:23 AM   #12
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Default Re: SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 Platinum, 1 cap leaked, need replacement help

The datasheet for the SZ series caps was greatly appreciated :-) Anyone potentially would have the SA series datasheets for SACOM or the so called out of business folks called EVERCON?
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