Badcaps.net Forum
Go Back   Badcaps Forums > General Topics > General Computer & Tech Discussion
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-28-2022, 10:58 AM   #21
TechGeek
Computer Geek
 
TechGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
City & State: Hell's Front Porch
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120/2/[email protected]
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,054
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topcat View Post
If you want to make a bigger drive behave on this, you can use an overlay; like Ontrack Disk Manager; with DOS or NT it would be fine up to 2gb @ the point of the install. With NT4, you could go even bigger but the install partition can't be any larger than 2gb. Once installed, you can partition the rest from within the OS. I've used this on stuff as far back as 386's that pretty much had zilch for HDD support.
Disk managers are a no-go. Multiple bugs in the system BIOS that combine to impose a hard 528MB limit.
__________________
Don't buy those $10 PSU "specials". They fail, and they have taken whole computers with them.

My computer doubles as a space heater.

Windows 11? Bug-infested mess.


SpinRite 6.1 - Too Little Too Late


Permanently Retired Systems:
RIP Advantech UNO-3072LA (2008-2021) - Decommissioned and taken out of service permanently due to lack of software support for it. Not very likely to ever be recommissioned again.
Asus Q550LF (Old main laptop, 2014-2022) - Decommissioned and stripped due to a myriad of problems, the main battery bloating being the final nail in the coffin.


Kooky and Kool Systems
- Gateway 80486-DX2/50 - Operational/WIP
- Athlon 64 Retro Gaming System - Fully operational!
- Main Workstation - Fully operational!

TechGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 11:04 AM   #22
Topcat
The Boss Stooge
 
Topcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
City & State: Salem, MO
My Country: United States
Line Voltage: 240V @ 60Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 15,200
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGeek View Post
Disk managers are a no-go. Multiple bugs in the system BIOS that combine to impose a hard 528MB limit.
You've done something wrong then.....
__________________
<--- Badcaps.net Founder & Owner

Badcaps.net Services:

Premade Capacitor Kits
Badcaps.net Capacitor Master List


Motherboard Repair Services


If you've come here in search of replacement capacitors or repair services, please use the links above.
----------------------------------------------
Badcaps.net Forum Members Folding Team
http://folding.stanford.edu/
Team : 49813
Join in!!
Team Stats
Topcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 11:20 AM   #23
stj
Great Sage 齊天大聖
 
stj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Europe
My Country: some shithole run by Israeli agents
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 27,424
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

do you have a network card with a socket for an eprom on it??
if you do then i can point you to an eprom that gives you an LBA48 ATA driver extension!!
stj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 11:22 AM   #24
ChaosLegionnaire
HC Overclocker
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
City & State: Singapore
My Country: Singapore
Line Voltage: 240VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 2,983
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGeek View Post
Temporary hard disk. Due to BIOS bugs, it doesn't work properly in this system. In fact, no hard disk above 528MB will work with this system.

Sound Blaster Vibra/16 card.
haha, i like your antique 486 system already, because it has two components made in singapore, the wd hard disk and the creative sound blaster sound card. seems singapore was quite the IT manufacturing factory back during the day, then it all went away to other countries. same boat as u guys in the US but since this is not the vip room, i wont comment further.
ChaosLegionnaire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 11:57 AM   #25
Topcat
The Boss Stooge
 
Topcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
City & State: Salem, MO
My Country: United States
Line Voltage: 240V @ 60Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 15,200
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post
haha, i like your antique 486 system already, because it has two components made in singapore, the wd hard disk and the creative sound blaster sound card. seems singapore was quite the IT manufacturing factory back during the day, then it all went away to other countries. same boat as u guys in the US but since this is not the vip room, i wont comment further.
I've also seen a lot of tech that era with 'made in usa' on it as well; quite common then....but not now....but I'll leave it at that.
Topcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 11:57 AM   #26
eccerr0r
Solder Sloth
 
eccerr0r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
City & State: CO
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 7,460
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

The Weitek was not a 487 or a 486, that was something different. It's not a "performance penalty" rather it's simply slower due to the lower clock rate than the higher clocked 486DX2 or 486DX4.
eccerr0r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 08:32 PM   #27
TechGeek
Computer Geek
 
TechGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
City & State: Hell's Front Porch
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120/2/[email protected]
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,054
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topcat View Post
You've done something wrong then.....
Nope, it's a pair of bugs in the system BIOS that interact in a bad way.

Bug #1- BIOS reverts hard disk configuration to auto-detection on boot, cold or warm.
Bug #2- BIOS tries to implement CHS translation for >528MB hard disks, but doesn't implement it fully and the end result is spectacular corruption of whatever you write to the disk, not to mention that whatever you read from the disk also ends up getting thoroughly trashed if you wrote it to the disk before transplanting it into the 486 system.

So either I'll need a sub-528MB hard disk (in the works) or an add-in BIOS that completely bypasses the (critically broken) INT13h routines when a >528MB hard disk is installed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
do you have a network card with a socket for an eprom on it??
if you do then i can point you to an eprom that gives you an LBA48 ATA driver extension!!
I do, but it's that ISA clone-of-a-clone card that causes DOS to hang up. I'll need an actually decent network card to make that happen.
TechGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 10:12 PM   #28
Topcat
The Boss Stooge
 
Topcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
City & State: Salem, MO
My Country: United States
Line Voltage: 240V @ 60Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 15,200
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGeek View Post
Nope, it's a pair of bugs in the system BIOS that interact in a bad way.

Bug #1- BIOS reverts hard disk configuration to auto-detection on boot, cold or warm.
Bug #2- BIOS tries to implement CHS translation for >528MB hard disks, but doesn't implement it fully and the end result is spectacular corruption of whatever you write to the disk, not to mention that whatever you read from the disk also ends up getting thoroughly trashed if you wrote it to the disk before transplanting it into the 486 system.

So either I'll need a sub-528MB hard disk (in the works) or an add-in BIOS that completely bypasses the (critically broken) INT13h routines when a >528MB hard disk is installed.
That's not making a whole lot of sense in relation to eachother. Did you replace the batt with something/anything that will make it retain memory (bug1)?

Bug2 would be technically negated by bug1, and that sounds like more of an issue with the IO controller. Try a different one? If these are known bugs, probably a BIOS update out there somewhere for it....

I wouldn't waste any time trying to hunt down a sub-528mb HDD; especially one that's actually GOOD.... Just get a 512mb CF card with an IDE adapter....and done.
Topcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2022, 10:19 PM   #29
TechGeek
Computer Geek
 
TechGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
City & State: Hell's Front Porch
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120/2/[email protected]
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,054
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topcat View Post
That's not making a whole lot of sense in relation to eachother. Did you replace the batt with something/anything that will make it retain memory (bug1)?

Bug2 would be technically negated by bug1, and that sounds like more of an issue with the IO controller. Try a different one? If these are known bugs, probably a BIOS update out there somewhere for it....

I wouldn't waste any time trying to hunt down a sub-528mb HDD; especially one that's actually GOOD.... Just get a 512mb CF card with an IDE adapter....and done.
Tried with external battery power, no change. The BIOS sees it as an IDE drive and forcibly resets it to auto-detection. Unfortunately, the BIOS also has halfway-implemented CHS translation. Ontrack Disk Manager actually fails to install due to the bugged BIOS, either with "Failed to install because of a severe error condition!" or a warning message saying that "This System's BIOS Does Not Fully Support Translation!"


There are newer BIOSes available, but I haven't found a flash utility that I feel comfortable running against it, and I don't have an (E)EPROM programmer.
TechGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2022, 03:07 AM   #30
stj
Great Sage 齊天大聖
 
stj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Europe
My Country: some shithole run by Israeli agents
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 27,424
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGeek View Post
I do, but it's that ISA clone-of-a-clone card that causes DOS to hang up. I'll need an actually decent network card to make that happen.
what dos?
did you try freedos?

what chip is on the card? i can probably find the correct driver
stj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2022, 08:01 AM   #31
TechGeek
Computer Geek
 
TechGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
City & State: Hell's Front Porch
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120/2/[email protected]
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,054
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
what dos?
did you try freedos?

what chip is on the card? i can probably find the correct driver
MS-DOS 7 (hangs when loading ASPI drivers with the card installed). Can't determine the chip installed on it. (It's got this label on it that I can't remove. I could try to find the mfg. by looking up the MAC address.)
TechGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2022, 08:33 AM   #32
stj
Great Sage 齊天大聖
 
stj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Europe
My Country: some shithole run by Israeli agents
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 27,424
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

your supposed to install the chip driver first.
stj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2022, 09:26 AM   #33
Dan81
SNES-powered
 
Dan81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
City & State: Bacau
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 1,547
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGeek View Post
Tried with external battery power, no change. The BIOS sees it as an IDE drive and forcibly resets it to auto-detection. Unfortunately, the BIOS also has halfway-implemented CHS translation. Ontrack Disk Manager actually fails to install due to the bugged BIOS, either with "Failed to install because of a severe error condition!" or a warning message saying that "This System's BIOS Does Not Fully Support Translation!"


There are newer BIOSes available, but I haven't found a flash utility that I feel comfortable running against it, and I don't have an (E)EPROM programmer.
Tried Uniflash or Flashrom? I have used those on quite a number of mainboards (granted, most were 430VX/TX, VIA 580VPX and newer) and they usually work. Flashrom has quite a higher rate of good flashes - I've had cases where Uniflash didn't want to play nice.
__________________
Main rig:
Gigabyte B75M-D3H
Core i5-3470 3.60GHz
Gigabyte Geforce GTX650 1GB GDDR5
16GB DDR3-1600
Samsung SH-224AB DVD-RW
FSP Bluestorm II 500W (recapped)
120GB ADATA + 2x Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB
Delux MG760 case
Dan81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2022, 06:08 PM   #34
TechGeek
Computer Geek
 
TechGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
City & State: Hell's Front Porch
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120/2/[email protected]
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,054
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
Tried Uniflash or Flashrom? I have used those on quite a number of mainboards (granted, most were 430VX/TX, VIA 580VPX and newer) and they usually work. Flashrom has quite a higher rate of good flashes - I've had cases where Uniflash didn't want to play nice.
Uniflash said that their software is intended only for PCI-era chipsets. I have not looked at Flashrom yet.
EDIT: Flashrom doesn't appear to have any mention of ISA chipsets, so I'm ruling on the safe side (not compatible).

Last edited by TechGeek; 09-29-2022 at 06:13 PM..
TechGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2022, 01:59 AM   #35
eccerr0r
Solder Sloth
 
eccerr0r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
City & State: CO
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 7,460
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

ugh...can't read my old cd-r's anymore... sigh. bitrot...
eccerr0r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2022, 09:10 AM   #36
Topcat
The Boss Stooge
 
Topcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
City & State: Salem, MO
My Country: United States
Line Voltage: 240V @ 60Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 15,200
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

Quote:
Originally Posted by eccerr0r View Post
ugh...can't read my old cd-r's anymore... sigh. bitrot...
That's why about 15yrs ago I copied all their data to the NAS..... Many CDR's written back in the 90's packed with blissful things don't read anymore... I can reproduce them if I have to. Yea, I know....too little too late in your case....but I saw that coming (bitrot)!!
Topcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2022, 10:02 AM   #37
stj
Great Sage 齊天大聖
 
stj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Europe
My Country: some shithole run by Israeli agents
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 27,424
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

i find that shit cdr's that modern drives cant read are often still readable on *decent*(SCSI) drives like Plextor and Toshiba, probably NEC too but i dont have any to try.
stj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2022, 10:41 AM   #38
Topcat
The Boss Stooge
 
Topcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
City & State: Salem, MO
My Country: United States
Line Voltage: 240V @ 60Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 15,200
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
i find that shit cdr's that modern drives cant read are often still readable on *decent*(SCSI) drives like Plextor and Toshiba, probably NEC too but i dont have any to try.
This is true to some degree, I have plenty of old world scsi plextor's here....but even those wouldn't read some of my old dark blue 650mb Verbatim 90's era CD-R's....but some would, but struggled. Glad I made the archive!
Topcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2022, 09:20 PM   #39
TechGeek
Computer Geek
 
TechGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
City & State: Hell's Front Porch
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120/2/[email protected]
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,054
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

I've got an early-'00s Plextor IDE CD burner that works like a champ. I reserve it for systems that I trust to not blow everything attached to their power supply to high heaven.
TechGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2022, 11:05 PM   #40
eccerr0r
Solder Sloth
 
eccerr0r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
City & State: CO
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 7,460
Default Re: Gateway 80486-DX2/50 Revival

Yay was able to extract win95 from the failed CDRs and got a basic install on my 486dx4/75 on a 512M CF card. At 16MB RAM, don't think I'd want anything newer.

Now need to find drivers...
eccerr0r is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Badcaps.net Technical Forums 2003 - 2022
Powered by vBulletin ®
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:29 PM.
Did you find this forum helpful?