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Old 09-11-2015, 02:12 AM   #21
Uranium-235
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Default Re: Help with ASUS K8V SE Deluxe

Quote:
Originally Posted by c_hegge View Post
Their early s478 and earlier boards were pretty decent, but they completely dropped the ball when s775 came out. Even their premium boards have ben junk since then. I class them as being about on par with ECS nowadays (ie, they are to motherboards what Codegen and Deer are to PSUs and what Fuhjyyu and Sacon are to caps).
I would say with the exception of their high end gaming boards you're correct. I have had a P6T-Deluxe v2 and it worked wonderfully

I have a customer with a Maximus VI Hero with some problems. You put a usb 3.0 card in there and it reboots and 'overclock failed' all the time if it's in a pci-e slot thats connected to the ICH. Put it in a pci-e slot thats cpu connected and it works just fine. We went on for days figuring that one out. Updating the bios and many many other things. The overclocking options on that sucker was INSANE. But the overclock fail detection system was tripped with two different usb 3.0 cards, two different manufacturers and different usb chipsets.
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Old 09-19-2015, 08:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: Help with ASUS K8V SE Deluxe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
The missing caps near the CPU were removed yesterday in my attempt to see if it would prevent from automatically turning on when I flip the AC switch,but with no result,the board still doing the same behavior.
That is a terrible idea to try! Sorry Dan, I don't mean to offend you in any way. I just want to make sure that whoever reads this thread does NOT ever try this on their board. It's a rookie mistake and can be very costly.

Running the board without caps where there were some can cause lots of trouble. In particular, buck regulators require some minimum capacitance to function properly. Without it, there is no place for the inductors to dump their energy, and this can cause huge voltage spikes. You can easily kill your CPU like that. And RAM is even more sensitive. Don't ask how I know that. I have two dead GeForce 7600 GT video cards, a Linksys WRT54G router, and a Shuttle PC sitting in my "parts" pile precisely because of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
Symptoms:

-no POST
-motherboard turns on as soon as AC switch flipped - I suspect 8 OST RLX caps around the CPU to have failed without signs (no bulge) to the point that they short the motherboard,but I wait for your opinion on this so I can surely know.
-no monitor output (logical since it does not POST)
-no beeps (AMI BIOS btw)
-N-Bridge,S-Bridge and SuperIO chip (Winbond W83697HF) do not heat up;NIC,SATA and FireWire chips do (Promise PDC20378,Marvel 88E8001-LKJ and VIA VT6307 respectively)
-CPU does not heat up
Check CPU V_core, Northbridge, Southbridge, RAM Vdd and Vtt, and AGP voltages.

The OST caps around the CPU may be bad, but as ChaosLegionnaire said, that likely is not why your system turns on as soon as power is applied. Probably a default CMOS setting since you have no battery in there and no way to change CMOS. Could be that the board is partially booting but BIOS is corrupt somewhere (a POST card may be helpful to determine that, but not always).

or...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
Also,the board doesn't turn off if I hold the switch for 5 seconds,it will just keep running and nothing else. I have to turn it off from the AC switch.
Southbridge may be dead or not getting a proper voltage if this is happening. Or maybe there is a blown signal transistor somewhere and not letting the PG signal from the PSU go through to signal the board that the PSU is ready (and hence the board "hanging" and waiting).
Either way, there are a lot of stuff to check.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
Winfast A7300GT TDH 256MB AGP - tested on another mobo - DOS mode works fine (BIOS showed up fine),VGA mode has artefacts (screen isn't garbled like my dead Radeon 9600 but this one has small vertical blue dot bars in VGA mode)
That 7300 is done. A reflow will likely not fix it, since it's the GPU core solder separating from the GPU PCB.
The Radeon 9600, on the other hand, should work fine after a good reflow again. I fixed quite a few Radeon 9700's like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
Hope my next bullet hits a GB or a MSI. I've rarely had problems with those.
Same here. Although I have seen some new GB motherboards act up. MSI has been the most bullet-proof in my experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
That,or at least Biostar or ASRock.
Beware that some earlier ASRock motherboard, in particular from the socket 478, 775, and socket 939 era are all built by Asus. You can tell by looking the caps on the board. If the white-shaded half below each capacitor faces the positive (+) lead of the capacitor, it's and Asus. If not, then it isn't. As far as I know, Asus is the only one that has this ASs-backwards PCB marks. All other manufacturers put cap silkscreen so that the white-shaded side is aligned with the negative (-) side of the capacitor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
A funny fact though,I've been having luck with ECS as opposed to people saying they're crap. Yes,ECS's cap choices is downright crap,but some of their boards are actually good if recapped.
Same here.
I will admit that some of my ECS boards can be a bit buggy sometimes (particularly with VIA and SIS chipsets), but they always boot regardless. Also, they tend to have hot-running and/or outdated CPU VRM designs... but again, they always work. At least for me. So overall, I like them. I do dislike their AMI BIOS, though. Phoenix is my preferred BIOS.

Last edited by c_hegge; 09-19-2015 at 09:20 PM.. Reason: Fixed quote code
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Old 09-20-2015, 11:06 AM   #23
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Default Re: Help with ASUS K8V SE Deluxe

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Originally Posted by momaka View Post
That is a terrible idea to try! Sorry Dan, I don't mean to offend you in any way. I just want to make sure that whoever reads this thread does NOT ever try this on their board. It's a rookie mistake and can be very costly.

Running the board without caps where there were some can cause lots of trouble. In particular, buck regulators require some minimum capacitance to function properly. Without it, there is no place for the inductors to dump their energy, and this can cause huge voltage spikes. You can easily kill your CPU like that. And RAM is even more sensitive. Don't ask how I know that. I have two dead GeForce 7600 GT video cards, a Linksys WRT54G router, and a Shuttle PC sitting in my "parts" pile precisely because of this.
It didn't do any harm because the VRMs weren't even warming up (sign that they weren't working at all). At all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Check CPU V_core, Northbridge, Southbridge, RAM Vdd and Vtt, and AGP voltages.
I'm pretty sure none of these aren't even present - NB and SB are cold,RAM MOSFETS are cold as well,and AGP cards don't warm up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
The OST caps around the CPU may be bad, but as ChaosLegionnaire said, that likely is not why your system turns on as soon as power is applied. Probably a default CMOS setting since you have no battery in there and no way to change CMOS. Could be that the board is partially booting but BIOS is corrupt somewhere (a POST card may be helpful to determine that, but not always).
If it would be a CMOS setting,I would be able to turn it off. Not in this case. It won't turn off at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
or...

Southbridge may be dead or not getting a proper voltage if this is happening. Or maybe there is a blown signal transistor somewhere and not letting the PG signal from the PSU go through to signal the board that the PSU is ready (and hence the board "hanging" and waiting).
Either way, there are a lot of stuff to check.
Wouldn't a blown transistor be quite visible? I know this is a black motherboard but I've seen instances where it was obivious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
That 7300 is done. A reflow will likely not fix it, since it's the GPU core solder separating from the GPU PCB.
The Radeon 9600, on the other hand, should work fine after a good reflow again. I fixed quite a few Radeon 9700's like that.
Don't worry,it's already dead. I was utter stupid to run the main core without the heatsink thinking it would reflow itself - signal lost,"It's dead,Jim!"

As for the 9600,it's also done. RAM is BGA and two of the RAM chips are cracked,and I don't have any heat gun to replace it. Strangely,while I removed all the lytics off it (Nichicon HD,pretty good for motherboards. I've only seen it on this GPU and on a Asus CUSL2-C board),the rest of the polies left on the board (SMD mounted,I couldn't remove those) it still continues to provide video! It really must be strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Same here. Although I have seen some new GB motherboards act up. MSI has been the most bullet-proof in my experience.
Huh. I never had problems with GB,maybe only twice,but with old boards. (one being a uATX 845G board and the other being a nF3 board - GA-K8NS)
MSI was truly bulletproof. Funny how,some ASUS boards have proven to be the same - one being a CUSL2-C and the other being a P4P800-E Deluxe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Beware that some earlier ASRock motherboard, in particular from the socket 478, 775, and socket 939 era are all built by Asus. You can tell by looking the caps on the board. If the white-shaded half below each capacitor faces the positive (+) lead of the capacitor, it's and Asus. If not, then it isn't. As far as I know, Asus is the only one that has this ASs-backwards PCB marks. All other manufacturers put cap silkscreen so that the white-shaded side is aligned with the negative (-) side of the capacitor.
ASRock being built by AS(S)US and having cap stencils backwards isn't quite new news. I learnt that from here before I signed up here . Some have quite good choices of caps,but it depends. I got a ASRock 775i65G (which is dead now,even though I bought it today ) that had Panny FJs 1500uF 6.3v,and KZG for the 16v caps. Could have been a bit worse - Panny for the 16v caps and OST on the 6.3v caps

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Same here.
I will admit that some of my ECS boards can be a bit buggy sometimes (particularly with VIA and SIS chipsets), but they always boot regardless. Also, they tend to have hot-running and/or outdated CPU VRM designs... but again, they always work. At least for me. So overall, I like them. I do dislike their AMI BIOS, though. Phoenix is my preferred BIOS.
In good conditions, I'd actually go ahead and class ECS as good as the once-good era ASUS. Aside from the crap cap choices,that is.

So far ECS hasn't given me troubles. Heck,I even had a K7S5A that worked fine despite having bulged caps - it wouldn't retain CMOS settings,though. I had a K7VZA (VIA KT133A) board in the same situation except this one would BSOD and wouldn't work with Windows. I didn't quite have any use for them though,so I scrapped them until later when I got a K7S6A. (which shared the same fate as the previous ones)

The only instances of no POST were with a PCChips/ECS M952 (PT800) board and frankly,a PT800-A board. Anything else than those,though,worked without problems. I still have a old P6VXAT I sometimes fiddle with. Came bundled (from a friend) with a Deer PSU (and one of the most gutless I've seen),a 1100MHz Tualeron and a 60GB Maxtor 5400RPM HDD.

The only good thing I could find on the Deer PSU (which I still keep,even though it's weighing as much as a tin can filled with lots of caps ) was that instead of the diode-on-a-bracket rectifer for 12v I was rewarded with a 10A 200V rectifier. No problems for a old S370 CPU,let alone a Celeron. Should get some time and install the PI coils,some Sanyo WG and SE caps and it should work fine. I actually can do without the filtering part for a PC so old.

And related to Deer PSUs - I still have my Fortrex ST-400W PSU working fine - powering a Pentium Dual Core E2160. Good thing I replaced the Xinruilian craptacular PSU with a Delta leafblower,and cut out the punched grille and went with a HSF grille. A good unit that runs cool,and also has PFC - yes,to your amazement it's a real PFC choke. Also,caps are of good quality - 2 Teapos,and the rest is all Pannies,save for a lone Ruby MHZ near one of the torroids.

Funny fact - my 400W Deer is powering a modern dual core system (good thing it's not a i3...) while my 300w FSP is powering a Pentium 4 HT oldie - a Prescott to make it crazier. I don't have to worry though,for the Deer is built pretty good.
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Old 09-21-2015, 09:27 PM   #24
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Default Re: Help with ASUS K8V SE Deluxe

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It didn't do any harm because the VRMs weren't even warming up (sign that they weren't working at all). At all.
Wrong.

Unless you take a multimeter to measure the VRM outputs, DO NOT assume they are not working just because they aren't warming up. I have plenty of video cards and motherboards that won't warm up, but their VRMs run.

In most cases, as soon as the PC is powered ON, the CPU VRM controller takes the CPU ID code and starts running the MOSFETs.

Trust me, I have played quite a bit with broken hardware to see "what will happen" when I removed some caps. The results were never constructive. The caps are there for a reason. Often times, even bulging dying capacitors are better than no capacitors at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
I'm pretty sure none of these aren't even present - NB and SB are cold,RAM MOSFETS are cold as well,and AGP cards don't warm up.
Don't be so sure. Take your multimeter and check instead. Maybe only one of them is not running, and perhaps that is what is halting the entire boot process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
Wouldn't a blown transistor be quite visible? I know this is a black motherboard but I've seen instances where it was obivious.
Not always. Small transistors like to go short-circuit without visible signs. In rare cases, BJTs may go open-circuit as well (and those are real bastards to find )

If you have trouble locating the power rails for the CPU, NB, SB, and etc., let me know, and I will try to point them out on your board.
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Old 09-21-2015, 11:43 PM   #25
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Default Re: Help with ASUS K8V SE Deluxe

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Gigabyte is somewhere in the middle for me,but MSI is clearly my number one choice for getting a board. They make good stuff.
For socket AM3+, MSI is the worst, prone to VRMs failing like a generic brand PSU!!

Gigabyte would be better in the AM3+ department.

And for AM3+, it looks like Asus is the best, believe it or not!

Get an MSI=Prepare to get a Kentucky-fried motherboard!!
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:16 AM   #26
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Default Re: Help with ASUS K8V SE Deluxe

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Originally Posted by RJARRRPCGP View Post
For socket AM3+, MSI is the worst, prone to VRMs failing like a generic brand PSU!!

Gigabyte would be better in the AM3+ department.

And for AM3+, it looks like Asus is the best, believe it or not!

Get an MSI=Prepare to get a Kentucky-fried motherboard!!
For the handful of AM3 system's I've built, I used MSI boards in all of them, and not one has a cooked VRM. In fact, the VRMs don't even get that hot in them. Based on my experience, I'll happily take MSI over Asus.
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Old 09-22-2015, 08:48 AM   #27
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Default Re: Help with ASUS K8V SE Deluxe

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Wrong.

Unless you take a multimeter to measure the VRM outputs, DO NOT assume they are not working just because they aren't warming up. I have plenty of video cards and motherboards that won't warm up, but their VRMs run.

In most cases, as soon as the PC is powered ON, the CPU VRM controller takes the CPU ID code and starts running the MOSFETs.

Trust me, I have played quite a bit with broken hardware to see "what will happen" when I removed some caps. The results were never constructive. The caps are there for a reason. Often times, even bulging dying capacitors are better than no capacitors at all.
Eh. Since I've already replaced it with a P4P800-E Deluxe I don't actualy care that much about it anymore.

I do have another motherboard to work on for 754 - my old non-working GA-K8NS - on the nF3 chipset.I'll have a ton of caps to put back,as last time I found it I know I stripped it of caps - bad datecode Nichicon HMs. This one would beep without RAM but would not post at all with good Micron and Samsung RAM sticks. It came with an Apacer RAM stick that I discarded - bad BGAs.

This one would heat up the chipset (there's no SB ) even in standby. It would power up fine,but shorting the PW_SW pins would turn off the board after 10 seconds,instead of 5.

As for the P4P800-E DLX that I have now,I have some work to do - the friend I've got the board from recapped it with Capxons!

Not only they were the wrong voltage (10v on places that would use 6.3v) but they were way bigger than the motherboard stencil. I got some Panny FJs 1500uf 6.3v to use instead of the Capxons. Not a lot to worry since my P4P800-VM had 1500uf caps near CPU. Panny FJ as well,and Rubycon MBZ for the rest.

Might look onto finding a donor board ( or more of them) and see if I can fix the K8NS - I have a dead Biostar full of Sanyos,a ASRock populated with small OSTs.

RJARRRPCGP - I would have said good cooling is the key but I am unsure.
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Old 09-23-2015, 07:59 PM   #28
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Default Re: Help with ASUS K8V SE Deluxe

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Eh. Since I've already replaced it with a P4P800-E Deluxe I don't actualy care that much about it anymore.
Fair enough. From your first post, it sounded like you wanted to get it fixed, though.
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Old 09-24-2015, 06:54 AM   #29
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Fair enough. From your first post, it sounded like you wanted to get it fixed, though.
Yeah,but going through so much hassle for a 754 board just wasn't worth it. I chuckled it in my dead boards pile closet and called it a day.

Gotta get around recapping the P4P800-E Deluxe,because Capxons don't sound so good on a PSU,let alone a MB.
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Old 09-24-2015, 03:08 PM   #30
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Default Re: Help with ASUS K8V SE Deluxe

I like the "-E" motherboards! I briefly had the nForce 2 version, the Asus A7N8X-E in 2004, but returned it, even when not faulty.

Because I wanted a video upgrade.
Because my best video card at the time was a Radeon 9000 Pro, which was meh.
(The Radeon 9000 Pro was purchased on July 1, 2003)

I at least a little bit, regret not staying with the Radeon 9000 Pro, and keeping the Asus A7N8X-E.

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Old 09-24-2015, 06:21 PM   #31
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Default Re: Help with ASUS K8V SE Deluxe

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Yeah,but going through so much hassle for a 754 board just wasn't worth it.
Not that much of a hassle really. Sometime finding and fixing those problems can actually be easier than doing a full recap. And an opportunity to learn something new (so when you get a nice motherboard, you know what to do).

Quote:
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Because my best video card at the time was a Radeon 9000 Pro, which was meh.
That's still better than a 64 MB Radeon 9200 SE (s***y editon)

I bought one of those back in 2003-2004 for my first gaming PC (on a budget). The performance was quite poor, but I was able to play Half-Life 2 when it came out, and that was a big game back then. I still have it and it still works, though .

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Old 09-25-2015, 06:34 AM   #32
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Not that much of a hassle really. Sometime finding and fixing those problems can actually be easier than doing a full recap. And an opportunity to learn something new (so when you get a nice motherboard, you know what to do).
I knew something was not right since the moment I bought - missing battery,missing HSF retention. Also,I knew it's dead the moment I've flipped it to remove the caps - two traces that connected the VRM controller chips together (there are two of them) were damaged so hard that I could clearly see the shiny copper out there. I don't have anything to repair them - tried piece of wire - wouldn't stick. There's no nail polish (alternative to conductive pen) in my house to fix it,and neither a conductive pen.

Maybe another time I'll dug it up and see if I can fix it.
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Old 09-25-2015, 09:59 AM   #33
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Default Re: Help with ASUS K8V SE Deluxe

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E
I do have another motherboard to work on for 754 - my old non-working GA-K8NS - on the nF3 chipset.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NForce3

NF3 has issues with vista and from what I read some with win7 64 bit

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I like the "-E" motherboards! I briefly had the nForce 2 version, the Asus A7N8X-E in 2004, but returned it, even when not faulty.
I've used two Asus A8N-E. One died an Nvidia chipset death (NF4 Ultra). That design included a shitty fan for the northbridge, did not go over well after a long time
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Old 09-25-2015, 10:04 AM   #34
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Default Re: Help with ASUS K8V SE Deluxe

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NForce3

NF3 has issues with vista and from what I read some with win7 64 bit
Not that.

It beeps without RAM but wouldn't POST AT ALL with RAM. It won't even do the GPU missing beeps. Only the RAM beeps are what I could get it to do.
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Old 09-25-2015, 02:19 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
I knew something was not right since the moment I bought - missing battery,missing HSF retention. Also,I knew it's dead the moment I've flipped it to remove the caps - two traces that connected the VRM controller chips together (there are two of them) were damaged so hard that I could clearly see the shiny copper out there.
Ah okay, it's one of those "worked on by someone" motherboards. Yeah, probably not good much for then.

As for repairing thin traces, the easiest way is to follow the traces until you hit a via in both directions. Then you scrape the enamel of the vias and solder to them with really thin wire. This works easiest if you have liquid or paste flux. Apply flux, then solder, then more flux, then solder the wire. Otherwise trying to hold a soldering iron + rosin core solder + the wire is nearly impossible.

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Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
I do have another motherboard to work on for 754 - my old non-working GA-K8NS - on the nF3 chipset.
...
It beeps without RAM but wouldn't POST AT ALL with RAM. It won't even do the GPU missing beeps. Only the RAM beeps are what I could get it to do.
Looks like that board has NB and SB all in one. And since it is a NF3, it could well have the bump-gate issue. A reflow and good cooling afterwards might bring it back to life... but maybe. Try a PCI video card first, just to see if the AGP port is the only one affected by the NF3 chipset possibly starting to develop the bump-gate problem.
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Old 09-25-2015, 03:39 PM   #36
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Default Re: Help with ASUS K8V SE Deluxe

That board supports "Speech Post Reporter" so plug a speaker into the audio out jack (the green port) and it will talk to you as it posts.
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Old 09-26-2015, 12:59 AM   #37
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Default Re: Help with ASUS K8V SE Deluxe

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Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Ah okay, it's one of those "worked on by someone" motherboards. Yeah, probably not good much for then.

As for repairing thin traces, the easiest way is to follow the traces until you hit a via in both directions. Then you scrape the enamel of the vias and solder to them with really thin wire. This works easiest if you have liquid or paste flux. Apply flux, then solder, then more flux, then solder the wire. Otherwise trying to hold a soldering iron + rosin core solder + the wire is nearly impossible.
That's quite out of the question since the points the trace goes to are too small to solder on (they're nearly smaller than the sharpest tip of a soldering iron). I do have some Aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid)that removes enamel (you just crush it and put the powder that comes off the crushed pill on the scraped via,then melt it to remove the enamel) but that doesn't help because both ends of the via are smaller than my soldering iron (40W btw,does its job perfectly even though it's a cheap Chinese one) and also,there's no way for me to scrape until I hit enamel to solder.

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Originally Posted by momaka View Post
Looks like that board has NB and SB all in one. And since it is a NF3, it could well have the bump-gate issue. A reflow and good cooling afterwards might bring it back to life... but maybe. Try a PCI video card first, just to see if the AGP port is the only one affected by the NF3 chipset possibly starting to develop the bump-gate problem.
Reflowing might be possible but it would take a long time (about 1-2 hours,I use a old hairdryer that blows out very hot air - that may help). To try a PCI video card is out of the question as well - I already said that it wouldn't beep if GPU is missing but RAM is present. Only if RAM is not present then it would do the usual long beeps.

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Originally Posted by brethin View Post
That board supports "Speech Post Reporter" so plug a speaker into the audio out jack (the green port) and it will talk to you as it posts.
Tried that. Nothing,it wouldn't talk at all.

Last edited by Dan81; 09-26-2015 at 01:18 AM..
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Old 09-27-2015, 10:56 AM   #38
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Default Re: Help with ASUS K8V SE Deluxe

well, i guess that explains why the cpu had no voltage and doesnt get hot. the vrm traces are toast. could have mentioned that sooner, i think lol. those boards with ruptured traces in vital areas are often goners unless u can repair the trace. so that k8v is simply just a scrap piece for u to cannibalise parts from since trace repair is impossible.
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Old 09-27-2015, 08:39 PM   #39
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... since trace repair is impossible.
Trace repair is not impossible at all... just not worth it sometimes (unless you do this for a hobby or want to learn).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81
To try a PCI video card is out of the question as well - I already said that it wouldn't beep if GPU is missing but RAM is present. Only if RAM is not present then it would do the usual long beeps.
That doesn't matter.
The NB/SB die could have bad contacts to the BGA package only for the AGP slot, thus consistently "thinking" there is something in the AGP slot even when there is nothing there... hence hanging at video detection and never finishing POST. A PCI video card may (or may not) help the board get around that.

But I guess if you don't already have a PCI video card, then it is not really worth getting one just for this board.

Also, a POST card may *sometimes* help you determine where the POST process is stuck. If you have one, maybe stick it to see what it displays... just for fun .

The good thing about broken boards is that you can experiment on them and not worry if you break them, because... well they are already broken.

Last edited by momaka; 09-27-2015 at 08:41 PM..
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