Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

[TELVM]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Antec CP-850






This PSU has the 120mm PWM fan located externally at the front of a wider and taller PSU case (Antec's proprietary CPX format). The combination of large PWM fan enfilading the heatsinks, and low power density from the bigger PSU case allows for superb cooling.




This thing was manufactured by Delta, so it looks, weighs and is built like a tank, dwarfing standard-size ATX PSUs:







Manufacturer · · · · · · · · · · · Delta
Certification · · · · · · · · · · · ATX12V 2.3 · EPS12V 2.91 // 80 Plus

PRIMARY__________________________________________________________________________

Topology · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Two-Transistor Forward
Transient Filter · · · · · · · · · · 6x Y-caps, 3x X-caps, 2x ferrite beads, 3x CM chokes, 1x MOV
Bridge Rectifier · · · · · · · · · · 1x LL25XB60 (25A, 600V)
Inrush Current Protection · · · 2x NTC Thermistors (SCK-2R512) with relay (793-P1-A)
PFC · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Active PFC
PFC MOSFETS · · · · · · · · · · · 2x 24N60C3 MOSFETS
PFC Controller · · · · · · · · · · · ICE1PCS02
Bulk Caps · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·3x Elite GM 450V 220uF (85ºC) 22x45mm for 660uF total
Main PWM Switchers · · · · · · ·2x 24N60C3 MOSFETS
PWM Controller · · · · · · · · · · UC3845B

SECONDARY________________________________________________________________________

Independent Regulation
Passive diodes rectification:
+12V · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 5x S60SC6M Schottky 60A
+5V · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 3x STPS30L45CT Schottky 30A
+3.3V · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 3x STPS30L45CT Schottky 30A
-12V · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1x L7912CV Voltage Regulator
Filtering Capacitors:
+12V · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1x Ltec LZG 16V 3300uF 12.5x35mm + 2x Chemicon KZH 16V 2200uF 10x25mm
+5V · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1x Rubycon YXG 16V 2200uF 10x23mm + 1x Ltec LZG 10V 2200uF 10x28mm
+3.3V · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 2x Chemicon KZH 6.3V 3300uF 10x25mm
-12V · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1x Nichicon PW 25V 330uF 8x15mm + 1x Nichicon PW 25V 220uF 8x11.5mm
Supervisor ICs · · · · · · · · · · · · AS339AP-1 LM339AN MC1455P1 LM393N
Fan · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1x 120mm PWM MGT12012XB-W25 (2800rpm, 93cfm, 42dBA, 12V, 0.52A, Ball bearing)

+5VSB_____________________________________________________________________________

PWM/Switching Transistor · · · · Probably from the TinySwitch TNY274-80 family, with heatsink
Rectifier Diode · · · · · · · · · · · 1x STPS2045CT Schottky 20A
Filtering Caps · · · · · · · · · · · · 1x Rubycon ZLH 10V 3300uF 12.5x30mm + 1x AISHI CD288Z 10V 2200uF 10x25mm




Inside there is a two PCB layout, with most of the input filtering, the inrush protection and the APFC coil on the smaller top PCB:




I love this piece of attention to aerodynamics, a well profiled airflow guide to force the flow down into the heatsinks so that no cool air is wasted:

.


The input filtering. Two ferrite beads, six Y-caps, three X-caps, three chokes, two NTC thermistors in series controlled by a relay, one MOV, and one oversized rectifier bridge:










The main PCB, about the size of an aircraft carrier's flying deck:






Topology is relatively classic and simple. Double transistor forward, old style independent regulation (three toroid coils on the secondary), and passive rectification with Schottky diodes.

The three bulk caps are 22mm 'Elites' rated for only 85ºC, definitely mediocre stuff but they should last a while inside this particular PSU with its great cooling:

.


The PFC and PWM main switchers on the primary heatsink:




I've seen gutless wonders whose main transformers were not as big as the one this PSU uses for +5VSB :





^ Underneath that 'S' shaped aluminium heatsink besides the white glue blob resides the +5VSB PWM/switching controller, probably from the TinySwitch TNY274~280 family. As long as the PSU is plugged to the wall and switched on, the +5VSB rail will be always hot, and when the computer is turned off the fan is stopped and the +5VSB stuff can only be cooled by whatever passive convection is available, so placing a heatsink on the +5VSB controller makes a lot of sense if we think about it ...


50V Panasonic FCs have replaced the small Taicon and Ltec caps on the +5VSB circuit:




+5VSB output filtering came with one 12.5mm Rubycon ZLH 10V 3300uF and one 'AISHI CD288Z' 10V 2200uF. I've replaced the late with a Panasonic FR 10V 2200uF:






Subtle example of Delta over-engineering, there are THIRTEEN items on the secondary heatsink:



^ Five Schottky rectifiers (in TO-247 size) for +12V, three each for +5V and +3.3V, one for +5VSB, and one voltage regulator for -12V.


The +12V output is filtered by one 12.5mm 16V 3300uF cap (originally Ltec LZG), two PI coils, and two Chemicon KZH 16V 2200uF:





^ One 12.5mm Panasonic FM 16V 3300uF has replaced the Ltec.


On the +5V rail there were one Rubycon YXG 16V 2200uF, one PI coil, and one Ltec LZG 10V 2200uF, the latter having been replaced by one Panasonic FR 10V 2200uF:

.


+3.3V is in charge of two Chemicon KZH 6.3V 3300uF:




Finally the -12V rail is filtered by two Nichicon PW, one 25V 330uF and one 25V 220uF:




Again courtesy of Delta, voltage regulation and ripple were exceptional for 2009 and still very good by today standards.

This PSU is rated a plain 80+, but up to 80% load behaves like an 80+ Bronze, and on 230VAC efficiency peaks at about ~88%.


Back in the day reviews of the Antec CP-850 by Hardware Secrets, JonnyGURU and SPCR.

[ReeceyBurger123]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

What a tank ! thanks for the page long thread

[Per Hansson]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Really nice work with that PSU, thanks for posting such a detailed report!

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

... And The most detailed PSU post award goes to.......... TELVM!

The Elite primary caps aside, that is indeed a really really high quality PSU. I wouldn't be surprised if it lasts for the next 20 years.

[TELVM]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Ha ha thanks, guess I went trigger-happy taking pics of the thing.

I'd like to replace the bulk 22mm 'Elites' with Panasonic EE. But in 450V 22mm the largest Panny EE capacitance is just 180uF, the 220 and 270UF Panny EEs are 25mm and this diameter wouldn't fit on at least two of the three spots.

Would a mixed team of one 270uF and two 180uF Panny EEs work OK as replacement for three 220uF 'Elites'?

[Dan81]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Okay,here's one I've been having in a PC I built.

Worth anything? It's powering a Athlon 64 3000+ on a VIA K8M800-based board (Biostar K8VGA-M).

The pic may not look so good because it's resized - originally had a resolution of 6408x7128.

TELVM - calculate the total capacitance of the three 220uF Elites you have now,and try finding a combination of Panasonic EEs that would give the same total capacitance.

[mariushm]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

so placing a heatsink on the +5VSB controller makes a lot of sense if we think about it ...

No, not really.

DIP packages are really bad at heat transfer, with figures like 50C/W thermal resistance. That heatsink will do minimal cooling... if it's there, it's only because of the poor layout moving air too slowly around the psu case.

You can see on page 24 of a TNY datasheet: https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...5ab1ccb583.pdf ... with ambient temperature of 50C (hot box) after one hour at running at worst conditions (265w input, full 12w output ) the IC was running at 93C ... 93+[10-20]C base temp is still below the maximum 125c allowed temperature.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Dan81: Delux-AY v1.0 20120715
Hahaha, is this a joke? Because it's really funny!
Btw, my cat could build a better PSU than that. (And I don't even have a cat!)

[TELVM]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

... DIP packages are really bad at heat transfer, with figures like 50C/W thermal resistance ...

That's probably why Delta engineers fitted an 'S' shaped heatsink whose lower leg goes thru the PCB to contact the ground plane.

... if it's there, it's only because of the poor layout moving air too slowly around the psu case ...

Oh I don't think so . They did the same on the Antec Signature:

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Worth anything? It's powering a Athlon 64 3000+ on a VIA K8M800-based board (Biostar K8VGA-M).

Eh... it's not that terrible of a unit.

Heatsinks actually look okay for a 200-250 Watt half-bridge PSU. But the caps on the output look small and I don't see PI coils for any of the main rails. So you're probably looking at 150 Watts max before ripple starts getting nasty. Also, no input filtering just screams "I am cheap". 5 VSB is probably standard 2-transistor oscillator (but on the positive side, I don't see a critical cap).

Can't say more than that without any part numbers, though. In particular, what you have for the 12V rail rectifier and the primary BJTs will tell you what this PSU is capable of. It is *probably* okay for the PC you are using it on, as long as the 12V rectifier is rated for at least 10A.

Go to a TV repair shop and ask them if they have any junk TV boards they would like to get rid of for free/cheap. In particular, look for ones that have an input filter (i.e. X/Y caps and common mode chokes). As for the PI coils, just find some thick solid copper wire (similar in thickness to what is on the output toroid) and wind about 10-20 turns on a 3-5 mm object. Then remove the object and put the winding in place of the jumpers. Even a cheap air-core inductor is better than nothing at all.

[Chungalin]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Just repaired a PHASAK PH0460 crappy PSU. It misses almost all line filter components (the board has room for them, but never placed at factory). But the unforgivable missing component is R2, the bleeder resistor for C2, the second filter capacitor (330uF/200V). Just R1 is present (150KΩ, very low wattage). C2 bloats after months of use due to asymmetric voltage distribution. Had to replace both caps, put higher watt 150KΩ on R1 and R2 and, as a favor, I put a common-mode choke and two ceramic caps to earth.

[Dan81]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Eh... it's not that terrible of a unit.

Heatsinks actually look okay for a 200-250 Watt half-bridge PSU. But the caps on the output look small and I don't see PI coils for any of the main rails. So you're probably looking at 150 Watts max before ripple starts getting nasty. Also, no input filtering just screams "I am cheap". 5 VSB is probably standard 2-transistor oscillator (but on the positive side, I don't see a critical cap).

I don't think a low end A64 2800+ can eat that much. I also tested it with my Pentium Dual Core machine (GB P35-DS3,3GB RAM and a GT210) and it didn't even warm up.

Can't say more than that without any part numbers, though. In particular, what you have for the 12V rail rectifier and the primary BJTs will tell you what this PSU is capable of. It is *probably* okay for the PC you are using it on, as long as the 12V rectifier is rated for at least 10A.

20A 45V for 3.3 and 5v,16A 200V for 12v. Pretty much enough I'd say.

Fan side isn't that brilliant - just your average "RDM8025S" but it's built by KissQuiet. In fact,they're actually the OEM behind this PSU - just that Delux requested to print the "DELUX-AY" text.

Wouldn't trust it powering a A7V8X-X board I have. I tried that once - the ATX connector was insanely hot!(not to the point of melting tho) Guess my beefy Deer could do that though - 30A on 3.3 and 5V,and 20A 60V for 12v.

Go to a TV repair shop and ask them if they have any junk TV boards they would like to get rid of for free/cheap. In particular, look for ones that have an input filter (i.e. X/Y caps and common mode chokes). As for the PI coils, just find some thick solid copper wire (similar in thickness to what is on the output toroid) and wind about 10-20 turns on a 3-5 mm object. Then remove the object and put the winding in place of the jumpers. Even a cheap air-core inductor is better than nothing at all.

I have been hesitating to do the PI coil side,but I'll dig through my stuff and see what I have. I still remember having a dead Delta and a dead Linkworld.

I know I should deserve a hard smack against a wall for this but I'm not going to do the input filtering. I actually don't have any hardware that emits static while using this. Absolutely nothing at all. Actually,EMI interference over

I still don't know what to do about the fuse - it's absolutely tiny.

Also,an picture of a KissQuiet unit. I'm still unsure if Sun Pro actually OEMs their PSU or they build themselves,but I'd go for the latter,as Sun Pro wouldn't be that dumb to use such a small fuse. Leadman/Powmax is out of the question for me,as any of their designs are bad (except the 6100 platform maybe),complete with PI coils and stuff or not.

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

But the unforgivable missing component is R2, the bleeder resistor for C2, the second filter capacitor (330uF/200V). Just R1 is present (150KΩ, very low wattage). C2 bloats after months of use due to asymmetric voltage distribution.

Wow, sounds like a late Friday night shift's job .

I don't think a low end A64 2800+ can eat that much. I also tested it with my Pentium Dual Core machine (GB P35-DS3,3GB RAM and a GT210) and it didn't even warm up.

Yes, both of those systems probably use no more than 100-150 Watts DC max.

But just because the PSU doesn't run warm doesn't mean it is doing well. The BJT base drive resistors can blown in cheap half-bridge PSUs without much warning if they weren't sized right (which is quite common). Also, the ripple can be terrible, and again the PSU won't run warm. But your components, on the other hand, won't like it too much.

20A 45V for 3.3 and 5v,16A 200V for 12v. Pretty much enough I'd say.

Yes, good enough for a half-bridge PSU powering a basic 12V-based PC.

Wouldn't trust it powering a A7V8X-X board I have. I tried that once - the ATX connector was insanely hot!(not to the point of melting tho)

Oxidized pins on the motherboard ATX connector or PSU ATX plug. Or too much ripple on the 5V line. And yes, you don't want to power a 5V-based motherboard with a PSU that has only a 20 Amp rectifier - nothing newer than a Pentium 3, anyways.

I have been hesitating to do the PI coil side,but I'll dig through my stuff and see what I have.

Why? PI coils are super easy to add and they really do help with ripple.

I know I should deserve a hard smack against a wall for this but I'm not going to do the input filtering. I actually don't have any hardware that emits static while using this. Absolutely nothing at all.

But your neighbors might . Not to mention your PSU really is killing AM radio communications. I hope there are no ham radio operators/enthusiasts near you either.

I still don't know what to do about the fuse - it's absolutely tiny.

Uhm... it works... so leave it?

Also,an picture of a KissQuiet unit. I'm still unsure if Sun Pro actually OEMs their PSU or they build themselves,but I'd go for the latter,as Sun Pro wouldn't be that dumb to use such a small fuse.

It's all about cost. If it's cheaper to use a smaller fuse in their crappy low-end PSU, and they think they will get away with it... then they will use it. That goes for any company, really.

If you've seen the Sun Pro KY-480ATX guts, you will believe that Sun Pro are capable of doing anything.

[_chiller_]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Hey guys,

this PSU is a LC-Power LC500-12. I thougt it was build by Great Wall, but LC-Power denied it. Do you have any ideas?

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

RHTX database says it is GW…

[dragos2009]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

@Dan81 the kissquiet power supply that you posted not only is crap but it even has a fake pfc transformer you will find that once you remove the yellow tape from the pfc tranformer i know that because i owned one that eventually blowed up

[Dan81]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

@Dan81 the kissquiet power supply that you posted not only is crap but it even has a fake pfc transformer you will find that once you remove the yellow tape from the pfc tranformer i know that because i owned one that eventually blowed up

That's the original KissQuiet unit. Mine doesn't have any PFC.

Also,that one got really anorexic heatsinks. I only know Leadman of having such heatsinks. At least mine would actually do good stuff if recapped and PI coils added. Again,I don't care about the filtering part mostly because there are no radio enthusiasts or old radios for that matter. People in here are just old people who watch TV. The only radio I have in my house doesn't pick up any interference from the computer.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

RHTX database says it is GW…

But the company responsible for that denies it. And it does really NOT Look like GW...
GW does a way better solderjob than this....

This looks more like some garage company did it...

But I'm not that familliar with those manufacturers....

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Also,that one got really anorexic heatsinks. I only know Leadman of having such heatsinks.

Nope, Sun Pro does too. Here:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...&postcount=883

[Dan81]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Nope, Sun Pro does too. Here:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...&postcount=883

Had one like that (at least the primary side looked the same).

Anyhow,those heatsinks are copied from Codegen. I actually had a "350W" Codegen (that was actually decent bar the crap caps) with the same heatsinks except they didn't have the holes in them.

Also,you were lucky to get it with PI coil spaces! My Sumvision KY-450ATX didn't even have the places for PI coils.