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Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

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    Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

    The only good thing here is I've found an easily reproducible problem to troubleshoot. In another thread the issue started with bad PSU capacitors then it seemed like a couple of failing speaker relays. But I've ruled out the relays for this particular prob. This AVR may have more than one issue, but this one is reproducible so focusing here seems wise.

    When scrolling around an Apple TV home screen, you'll a hear a normal "boop .. boop" sound, produced by the ATV's interface when bouncing from app to app. On this NAD 777, you'll hear it, too. But if you wait a bit before moving to the next app, the "boop" volume level drops to maybe 10% and is often accompanied by a low but audible pop and a little static. It's all happening at a very low volume level. Any further app to app movement gets all the "boops" correct at the correct level. It only happens after about a 5 second period of zero audio signal. It happens on the right and left amplifier modules, across all involved channels. It even happens over the right/left pre outputs. It DOES NOT, however, happen on the TV speakers when the Apple TV is passing HDMI audio through the NAD to the TV.

    Is this a possible DSP issue? Or perhaps the PSU isn't initially supplying enough voltage, but it quickly ramps and then works from there?

    Sorry to be a bother with this thing.
    Last edited by SMDFlea; 09-18-2022, 04:31 PM. Reason: NAD T777 v3

    #2
    Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting AVR

    Originally posted by fytonv View Post
    The only good thing here is I've found an easily reproducible problem to troubleshoot. In another thread the issue started with bad PSU capacitors then it seemed like a couple of failing speaker relays. But I've ruled out the relays for this particular prob. This AVR may have more than one issue, but this one is reproducible so focusing here seems wise.

    When scrolling around an Apple TV home screen, you'll a hear a normal "boop .. boop" sound, produced by the ATV's interface when bouncing from app to app. On this NAD 777, you'll hear it, too. But if you wait a bit before moving to the next app, the "boop" volume level drops to maybe 10% and is often accompanied by a low but audible pop and a little static. It's all happening at a very low volume level. Any further app to app movement gets all the "boops" correct at the correct level. It only happens after about a 5 second period of zero audio signal. It happens on the right and left amplifier modules, across all involved channels. It even happens over the right/left pre outputs. It DOES NOT, however, happen on the TV speakers when the Apple TV is passing HDMI audio through the NAD to the TV.

    Is this a possible DSP issue? Or perhaps the PSU isn't initially supplying enough voltage, but it quickly ramps and then works from there?

    Sorry to be a bother with this thing.
    So, what is you brand and model number of the AVR.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting AVR

      NAD T777 v3

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

        Try a different input port and see what kind of result you get.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

          Wonder if you have contacted these people on this site?

          https://www.avforums.com/threads/nad...ssues.2173047/

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

            I am not familiar with either product.

            With that stated I would ask you to first concentrate on what works, the HDMI. The HDMI how is it connected to the TV? By that is it HDMI arc or is it just a one-way connection. What is being input for the Audio when no problems occur? Then look at the specification for the AVR and the Apple TV to see what they are in different conditions both working and Booping. Most likely specification can be found in the user manual.

            Is the AVR failing while also video processing or will it also fail with just audio processing. Along with the specification for the units involved you can narrow down the failure.

            Does it fail with different speakers? That is to say it will never fail on a set of speakers no matter what inputs and outputs are happening and different applications. Or does it fail with different modes. That is to say different modes of both TV and AVR. The modes of the TV and AVR are the actual functions and switches of each device and physical inputs and outputs. Or does it fail with only different application being run on the TV? This then is the software applications on the TV as appose to TV's actual basic functioning. Does it fail with just applications switching or will it fail with-in one application or another.

            After all this is figured out and stated one might determine between a software or hardware problem.

            To me with only knowing what you have stated it sounds as if a software problem.

            However, if it is determined hardware than a service manual will be needed.
            Last edited by keeney123; 09-18-2022, 10:36 PM.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

              I've tested cables, sources, and inputs ad nauseam. My normal setup has an Apple TV 4K, Nvidia Shield Pro, and a PS5 all connected to the NAD via HDMI, and the NAD outputs HDMI to a Samsung display. I don't use ARC. The problem happens on both the Apple TV and Shield. It even happens when the Apple TV is connected directly to the display while passing audio back to the NAD via an optical connection. Swapped speakers, too.

              I'll check out that AV forums site. I've done a tone of googling on problems with this AVR, but haven't stopped there yet.

              Appreciate the help!
              Last edited by fytonv; 09-18-2022, 11:39 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

                Originally posted by fytonv View Post
                I've tested cables, sources, and inputs ad nauseam. My normal setup has an Apple TV 4K, Nvidia Shield Pro, and a PS5 all connected to the NAD via HDMI, and the NAD outputs HDMI to a Samsung display. I don't use ARC. The problem happens on both the Apple TV and Shield. It even happens when the Apple TV is connected directly to the display while passing audio back to the NAD via an optical connection. Swapped speakers, too.

                I'll check out that AV forums site. I've done a tone of googling on problems with this AVR, but haven't stopped there yet.

                Appreciate the help!
                So, are you saying it does "not" happen with PS5 when connecting by HDMI?

                And it "happens" on Apple TV 4k and the Nvidia Shield Pro when connected the NAD by HDMI?

                And it "happens" when the Apple TV is connected to the NAD by optical connection?

                The Samsung Display is downhill from all this and does not need to be connected in order for the sound to come out of the NAD. Is this correct?

                Because ARC is not being used than the connection is considered a one-way connection although connection handshaking needs to be done first even without ARC.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

                  Is it possible to connect the NAD to another optical connection perhaps another TV or if one just has a cable box with an optical connection output to connect to that output.

                  Just another TV's optical and a set of speakers off the NAD without any other Attachments?

                  Or just the optical coming from a cable box to the input of the NAD. With the cable box on a channel so you can hear sound.

                  Verify whether you hear this sound distortion.

                  This is important to know with the above testing.

                  Optical Input/ Output (Toslink)
                  The optical output is a very small connection, into which a small thin optical cable connects. The optical input/output is a digital audio only connection which is commonly used for external audio equipment like soundbars, AV receivers & amplifiers. You will notice that the optical connection has a beam of light going through it, this is because it is a fibre optic cable and the information is sent down at very high frequencies. The optical connection is capable of 5.1 surround sound
                  Last edited by keeney123; 09-19-2022, 12:41 AM.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

                    It'll do it on all sources, including the PS5. The PS5 normally plays background music on the Home Screen, and when that's playing, no audio drops. But after turning off the background music, it'll drop when slowly toggling around the menu. Each navigation step causes a click or boop. When no background audio playing, it'll miss the navigation noise. It's worth mentioning that I believe this happens during movies too. If the scene is absolutely silent, the moment someone talks you could miss a small part of the dialogue. Maybe a second's worth.

                    Here are how things are connected. Pretty standard and each has issues.

                    AppleTV/Shield/PS5 HDMI > NAD 777 v3 > Samsung TV
                    AppleTV > Samsung TV > Optical to NAD
                    AppleTV > Samsung TV ... This one always works (when audio is playing from the TV speakers). It works even if the NAD is in the middle in standby mode.

                    I have my inputs, sources, and outputs correct. I've tried a couple of sets of speakers and even switching around speaker outs (left is right and right is left). I don't have another TV to try and it's the only thing I have around that supports a TOSLINK connection. And as you mentioned, the TV is at the end. When it's not on, I can still create the issue just with a source and the NAD. It's weird. Prior to all this I was having speaker channel drop issues. Randomly, speakers connected to the right amp module would drop and distort, mildly. Someone on this helpful forum mentioned it could be a relay issue and I should try to quickly crank up the volume. That seemed to do the trick, for now. Once past that major issue, this particular problem became more apparent.

                    Video via HDMI is pretty reliable on all 3 sources. Occasionally I'll get a pink screen with the AppleTV, but rebooting the NAD always fixes that. Oh ... the optical inputs and HDMI inputs are on separate cards.

                    I was frustrated enough with this thing that I bought a new Anthem MRX 740 8K. I returned it 2 days later. It's also buggy and comes with rocket level fan noise. It was astounding to learn that Anthem made an AVR equipped with a fan loud enough to overpower dialogue.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

                      Why not just sent it to a service centre?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

                        I've considered it. I'm worried it won't get fixed and be a waste of time. Or the cost of repair will be enough to where I should keep going down the path of replacing it with another AVR.

                        Before I get there I was hoping someone might see a smoking gun made obvious by this symptom. I own a multimeter and can solder and I'm not afraid of attempting a repair.

                        Originally posted by diif View Post
                        Why not just sent it to a service centre?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

                          So, your Apple TV is really not a Apple TV but a box that Apple maded for connecting to the cable provider or internet cable provider?
                          Last edited by keeney123; 09-19-2022, 10:32 AM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

                            Cranking up the volume for a relay issue would tell me that the relay contacts were worn and should have been replaced. Dropping out of channels because of relay contact failure can happen. What happens is the contacts can pit and when the coil to the relay tells the contacts to close, they close and then open because the contact surface is not smooth, and the area is not large enough to hold them together. I would imagine with all the protection circuity of todays the processor would receive a fault and disconnect. If this problem is repeatedly ignored and overridden by cranking up the volume one will get arching in the contacts, this is then a protentional problem for other component failures.
                            Last edited by keeney123; 09-19-2022, 10:31 AM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

                              In this instance I would agree with Diif. This is an expensive piece of equipment. There are a lot of people on the internet who will tell you something to do when they do not understand the problem themselves. That can lead to farther problems that would not occur if a qualified manufacturing technician received the unit and corrected the problem. I do not know the factory repair people at NAD but, if they do not know how to correctly repair your unit then I would invest in a Unit from a different manufacturer that also would be able to repair it. If you are able to trust people on the internet to help you than you would actually need to be able to distinguish the ones who do not know from the ones who do. This requires a technical background on such devices.

                              You also have limited resources for testing out your configuration which also makes it more difficult to troubleshoot third party over the internet.

                              If you cannot financially afford to get it repaired by NAD, then I can understand why you would seek help on the internet however if you can then I would say contact them and send it back. Find a qualified TV/Computer repairman in your area. Before you call the repairman check there rating on the BBB and read the customer complaints and how their company resolved them. Then call them and have the TV/Computer repairman check out the rest of your equipment while your NAD is being repaired at the Manufacturer. When the NAD comes back have the same TV/computer repair person come to your home and connect the equipment and check if the problem is gone. If not, you will have the TV/ computer repair person right there to diagnose the problem further. That way no frustration or headaches.
                              Last edited by keeney123; 09-19-2022, 10:36 AM.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

                                Thanks Keeney. I'm confident about my troubleshooting and I'm certain the fault lies within the NAD. I have decades of technology experience and at a user level I understand how this stuff works end to end. What I'm not is an EE or a competent electronics repair tech. I'm trying to learn a bit there.

                                I think I'll end up taking it to a NAD service center. Appreciate the advice.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

                                  Originally posted by fytonv View Post
                                  Thanks Keeney. I'm confident about my troubleshooting and I'm certain the fault lies within the NAD. I have decades of technology experience and at a user level I understand how this stuff works end to end. What I'm not is an EE or a competent electronics repair tech. I'm trying to learn a bit there.

                                  I think I'll end up taking it to a NAD service center. Appreciate the advice.
                                  To become a competent electronic repair technician, one has to have a lot of patience. Not everyone is made this way.

                                  I was an electronic repair technician for 15 years who also had gone to a post-secondary technical school and had graduated college to study Electrical/ Electronics before I went into the field and made a living doing this. I work in both research and production at very successful and advanced companies.

                                  One thing Dr Kreisler told me when I worked for him at UMass at the Amherst Campus in High Energy Physics Dept., "that he had a professor when he was a student that ask them do you really know what an electronic is." My point is do not be too confident about one's beliefs.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

                                    I suppose you did a factory reset and checked that the FW is up to date? I think that’s pretty much all you can do. I don’t think the problem is in the analog part, it has to be on the digital side. You could look at the block diagram in the service manual, and probably find a few IC’s that you could try to replace. If you sending it back, NAD probably is just replacing boards.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

                                      Hard to argue with that .

                                      Originally posted by keeney123 View Post
                                      To become a competent electronic repair technician, one has to have a lot of patience. Not everyone is made this way.

                                      I was an electronic repair technician for 15 years who also had gone to a post-secondary technical school and had graduated college to study Electrical/ Electronics before I went into the field and made a living doing this. I work in both research and production at very successful and advanced companies.

                                      One thing Dr Kreisler told me when I worked for him at UMass at the Amherst Campus in High Energy Physics Dept., "that he had a professor when he was a student that ask them do you really know what an electronic is." My point is do not be too confident about one's beliefs.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: Nearing wit's end troubleshooting NAD T777 v3 AVR

                                        So many factory resets. And the firmware is current. The replacing boards part is what I was hoping to avoid as it wouldn't be as fun. Will ponder it. Maybe I'l take it in, or just keep it as a spare.

                                        Originally posted by CapLeaker View Post
                                        I suppose you did a factory reset and checked that the FW is up to date? I think that's pretty much all you can do. I don't think the problem is in the analog part, it has to be on the digital side. You could look at the block diagram in the service manual, and probably find a few IC's that you could try to replace. If you sending it back, NAD probably is just replacing boards.

                                        Comment

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