eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

[Newbie2]

Re: eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

Also, specifically what ATI HD series video card did he purchase? If it is the HD2400 AGP video card, then a 300W Bestec will have enough power for it. If it is the HD2600, HD3650, or HD4650 AGP video cards, then a 300W Bestec might do fine. If it is the HD3850 AGP video card, then he would need at least a good 400W power supply (no Coolmax junk) to sufficiently power the rest of his computer.

[SB-X]

Re: eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

Wow that's a relief, thanks again for the continued support guys. I wasn't sure what you could identify in the pictures and I didn't even mention the series or other markings. (I figured out the focus issue on my camera btw if any higher-res pics are needed...)

United Chemicon eh? Hmm...

What's the diameter of the blown Nichicon capacitors on your motherboard, 8 or 10mm? Also what's their height?

10mm x 20mm.

Also, check the Bestec's caps and post their brand and series here before buying capacitors for the motherboard. It might be cheaper to buy everything at once.

OK. Can't do anything to the motherboard yet anyway. Currently having trouble *removing* the caps from my practice board (a PCI winmodem, which thanks to my efforts has lost some of its traces); but going to keep at it.

If it is the HD2600, HD3650, or HD4650 AGP video cards, then a 300W Bestec might do fine.

HD3650, which didn't do fine at all with the Bestec in relatively modern games. Although maybe it was the bad caps causing my crashes/resets and not an overall lack of power?
I realize that this gfx card is overkill for my CPU but that shouldn't affect it.
The RealTek sound chip is also said to cause problems for some games.
The Coolmax isn't even that quiet. (it is advertised as such, having only one 80mm fan)
What's the cheapest "good" 450W power supply? Say, for a budget gaming computer.

Thanks. I'll eventually get some pics of the PSU.

[momaka]

Re: eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

OK. Can't do anything to the motherboard yet anyway. Currently having trouble *removing* the caps from my practice board (a PCI winmodem, which thanks to my efforts has lost some of its traces); but going to keep at it.

Thats okay, you'll get better with practicing.
It's easier if you heat only one leg at a time and wiggle the capacitor out. I've included some pictures below of this "wiggle" method (MS Pain style ).





Basically you go through steps 1 and 2 until the capacitor comes out.

HD3650, which didn't do fine at all with the Bestec in relatively modern games. Although maybe it was the bad caps causing my crashes/resets and not an overall lack of power?

Could be the Bestec if the 12v goes too low, but I'm leaning towards the bad capacitors on the motherboard. When you fix your board (and check the Bestec), measure the 12v rail with a Multimeter while system is idle. If it's dipping below 11.4v, you'll need a better power supply with a stronger 12v rail.

The Coolmax isn't even that quiet. (it is advertised as such, having only one 80mm fan)

They probably removed the fan controller to save a few cents. I'm not surprised at all.

What's the cheapest "good" 450W power supply? Say, for a budget gaming computer.

Depends mostly on the processor, video card, and the system type (whether it's the older 5v-based, which pulls more power from the 5v rail, or the newer 12v-based). Either way, a 450W PSU might even be good for a mid-end gaming PC with a single video card (as long as it's 450 "real" watts).

[370forlife]

Re: eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139008

That would be more than enough power. If you want to go cheaper,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371005

Low end FSP, but it would get the job done.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817703017

Another good choice

[Newbie2]

Re: eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

The Antec EarthWatts power supply series can also be considered. They are decently-priced power supplies that are manufactured by Seasonic, and are of excellent quality. They also have active PFC and high efficiency.

In my opinion the 430W version of the power supply series I mentioned is more than adequate for your computer. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371006

I am running the 380W version of the Antec EarthWatts power supply series in my computer and for more than a year I've had no problem with it powering my main computer:

Intel Pentium Dual Core E2180 2.0GHz @ 3.006GHz, 1336MHz FSB (Socket 775)
8GB SUPER*TALENT T800UX4GC5 PC6400 DDR2-800 RAM (4x2GB in dual channel @ 802MHz, 2 kits installed)
GIGABYTE GA-P35-S3G motherboard
EVGA NVIDIA e-GeForce 9600GT 512MB DDR3 PCI-E 16x Superclocked video card
1TB WD Caviar Green 10EAVS SATA-II Hard Drive
Antec EarthWatts 80 PLUS 380W Power Supply
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium (OEM) SP2 x64
Antec New Solution NSK4480 Mini Tower case

[Newbie2]

Re: eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

HD3650, which didn't do fine at all with the Bestec in relatively modern games. Although maybe it was the bad caps causing my crashes/resets and not an overall lack of power?

The HD3650 is not a high-end GPU, and paired with AGP and an Athlon XP 3000+ it wouldn't run many modern games with high to maximum graphics settings very well, probably with low frame rates.

After your motherboard is repaired and your power supply is dealt with, try running your new games at lower resolution, no AA (anti-aliasing), bilinear or trilinear filtering, and slightly reduced quality settings.

I had the PCI-Express 16X version of the Radeon HD3650 in my main computer in the past before upgrading to a GeForce 9600GT, and I had to play Call of Duty 4 with no AA (anti-aliasing) to get good frame rates.

[Newbie2]

Re: eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

Thats okay, you'll get better with practicing.
It's easier if you heat only one leg at a time and wiggle the capacitor out. I've included some pictures below of this "wiggle" method (MS Pain style ).





Basically you go through steps 1 and 2 until the capacitor comes out.

Also, before starting the wiggle method to remove a capacitor, adding some more solder to the joints already there will help melt the solder and make the removal process much easier. The amount of solder on the joints already on the motherboard is not a lot.

[SB-X]

Re: eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

I can't believe it. I followed all the advice and instructions on the website and... it's working perfect! I honestly thought I would screw something up and melt the circuits and install the wrong capacitors and the board would never function at all afterward. But no, not only is it working, it's performing better than before in many ways. I didn't realize it would be so much more responsive - after fixing. How is that? I must not have even noticed it had been slowing down over the years. If you ignore that the hard disks are completely full, it's like a brand new PC. Time for a new HD.

The only thing I failed at was doing it quickly. How can you guys like Topcat do this so fast?
It took me the better part of a day. :\
I'm also worried that a couple of the joints are cold and wonder if that will cause problems down the line.

Unbelievably, besides the PC actually booting up now, the following problems have also apparently been fixed:
o The network would abruptly disconnect if the connection were flooded by something like SecondLife (which can at times completely use up DL bandwidth) and when this happened it could not be reconnected manually. I'd have turn off the router, and restart the computer. Thought it was a problem with the DSL, but it's not happening now.
o The DVD-ROM would not read burned discs. It had started in the past 2 months only seeing them as blank. On first boot after replacing caps, a DVD that was in the drive when it stopped booting, which *appeared* as blank, now has accessible files.
o Sleep(S3) mode was unusable. I havn't been able to put the computer to Sleep for years! It works fine now.
o As mentioned earlier, various games randomly crashed to desktop or cause a BSOD at specific reproducible points. I still get some crashes - that's the nature of modern games. But it seems more like a gfx driver issue now. There havn't been any BSODs since fixing the computer.

The CPU running at only 1300MHz turned out to be the power-saving feature of the Athlon. It switches up when doing anything CPU-intensive. Just hadn't noticed it before.
Maybe this thing will work for another 10 years...

I'll respond to a few posts:

When you fix your board (and check the Bestec), measure the 12v rail with a Multimeter while system is idle. If it's dipping below 11.4v, you'll need a better power supply with a stronger 12v rail.

Alright, that's easy enough. I'll first run it for a while to see if games continue to work fine. If they do, I wouldn't bother worrying about it.
(Off-Topic: I have the cheapest RadioShack digital multimeter. What is considered better in general - digital or analog?)

BTW I still plan to post pictures of the Bestec here to see if people can identify it, but the caps are unreadable, they are all packed in there too tightly. There is a brown gook on top of them, but I don't know if that's glue or not, since it's all over the place and connected to wires and the metal case.

system type (whether it's the older 5v-based, which pulls more power from the 5v rail, or the newer 12v-based).

How can you tell the difference?

• CORSAIR CMPSU-400CX
• PC Power & Cooling Silencer PPCS420X
• Antec EarthWatts

I will keep all of your recommendations in mind. Not sure if I should try to get a refund for the Coolmax now, or just run it until it melts. (that's an exaggeration)

The HD3650 is not a high-end GPU, and paired with AGP and an Athlon XP 3000+ it wouldn't run many modern games with high to maximum graphics settings... try running your new games at lower resolution

I realize that and already run them at mid-low settings. I don't even play the latest games (except Fallout 3), and they perform fine that way. (although kind of wish I'd bought a DDR3 card now...) No, what I meant was the random crashes and BSOD's in any configuration seemed power-related. It occurred with different games, and I couldn't see how they'd be the fault of the gfx driver. But like I said, the crashes stopped happening now.

...adding some more solder to the joints already there will help melt the solder and make the removal process much easier.

Yeah that's what I had to do. The motherboard itself was also much stronger than the earlier test board. At one point I thought the PCB was melting but that was just rosin flux.
Thanks for the repair tips both of you.

Finally I did have a couple questions about capacitor series. Since I already used Panasonic, this is more for curiosity's sake.
Is there a difference between the Panasonic FM vs Nichicon HZ capacitors?
Would the Nichicon VZ series have worked? What are they for?

Once again, sorry for not getting back here to post before. I let the thing run for a couple days just to make sure it wouldn't suddenly burst into flames or something. I'm really grateful for everyone's advice, and thank Topcat for setting the site up.

[momaka]

Re: eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

Glad to hear your computer is working again .

The only thing I failed at was doing it quickly. How can you guys like Topcat do this so fast?
It took me the better part of a day. :\

That's not slow, especially for a first time recap. I'd probably take the same time too, more or less. I guess it all comes down to repetition .

I'm also worried that a couple of the joints are cold and wonder if that will cause problems down the line.

Can't say for sure. If the motherboard is still out, just re-heat them with your iron for a seconds or two. Solder should be in a nice volcano-like shape around the capacitor legs.
Sometimes joints tend to look cold when there's not enough solder. Make sure you have enough on there.

(Off-Topic: I have the cheapest RadioShack digital multimeter. What is considered better in general - digital or analog?)

I would think digital is better, but it's all up to preference in the end.

BTW I still plan to post pictures of the Bestec here to see if people can identify it, but the caps are unreadable, they are all packed in there too tightly. There is a brown gook on top of them, but I don't know if that's glue or not, since it's all over the place and connected to wires and the metal case.

Good idea. Don't' want to have the PSU kill that newly recapped motherboard.
It's okay if you can't read the brand/series of the caps in there. All PSU caps have similar specs. FC and FM (Panasonic), PW and HE (Nichicon), or KY, KZE, LXY, and LXZ (United Chemicon) are usually good replacements you can find on Digikey. I think Samxon RS(?) series are also good for PSU use (check with Topcat, though).

As far as telling if the system is 12v-based - if it has a P4 connector (the one with 2 yellow and 2 black pins), it's 12v-based for sure. That means power for the CPU will be drawn from the 12v rail.

Finally I did have a couple questions about capacitor series. Since I already used Panasonic, this is more for curiosity's sake.
Is there a difference between the Panasonic FM vs Nichicon HZ capacitors?
Would the Nichicon VZ series have worked? What are they for?

Nichicon HZ has lower ESR and higher ripple rating than Panasonic FM, hence the Nichicon HZ can "clean up" the voltage better.
Nichicon VZ, however, are just general purpose caps (in other words, not low ESR) with a 105C rating.

ESR describes the resistance of the cap - the lower it is, the faster it can charge and discharge (which in turn allows voltage to be filtered better), and it also means the capacitor will produce less heat. For PSUs and especially for motherboards, lower ESR is preferred.
The ripple current rating describes how much ripple (or fluctuations) the capacitor can handle - the more the better.

... and thank Topcat for setting the site up.

I agree. To Topcat .

[feelgill]

Re: eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

I've read this post and have a lot of the same issues. I have an emachine T3092 and the power supply went out and I had the blown capacitors. I replaced the power supply and replaced the capacitors. I still don't get any video.
Is there something else I should check?
Thanks,
Phil

[momaka]

Re: eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

Hi feelgill, welcome to the forums!
Try creating a new thread if you want to get more attention to your problem. This will also keep people from confusing your problem with SB-X's.

In your new thread, mention as much info as possible about the problem and say that you also read this thread.

[ratdude747]

Re: eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

the psu goop is glue. but if it is a bestec 12e (not 12z), then it is bad by default... everell could give you a rant on it.

look for a used one. also, there are these nice 550 ac-bel units for 26 bux a pop... (search badcaps for ac-bel 550 and you'll fin the thread with the link). those units are built like a tank. steal of a deal. i need to order a couple as well. they have ost caps but as long as the fan is functional, then they will be fine.

edit- link to psu link: http://www.hypermicro.com/product.asp?pf_id=PSAB001

i know 550 may sound small but thats how much you need and it delivers. ony issue is the p4 plug is 8 not 4 pins but if the bestec is fried, then splice the p4 cord off itt on to the 8-wire strand. note- psu is HEAVY! your case should work as my t5026 has a simular case i think and it feels solid enough to hold it.

[ratdude747]

Re: eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

now it is on ebay... http://cgi.ebay.com/ACBEL-ATX-550W-P...823152003r4859
try there.

[Seamus]

Re: eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

I had the same problem with my T3092. Caps looked just like the ones in the picture replaced them with new ones from the link. Back up and running again. Thanks to everyone on the thread and Badcaps.net !

[weirdlookinguy]

Re: eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

The AcBel 550w that Ratdude linked to is overkill and sounds like a windtunnel. Any of the PSUs 370 posted are great. This is what I am running in my system personally (which was, funny enough, recommended to me by 370 himself):

http://www.hypermicro.com/itemdesc.a...001401&eq=&Tp=

Runs both very cool and very silent, thanks to the 120mm fan in it. Hauls my Radeon 4850, two SATA HDDs, and E7500 Core 2 Duo without breaking a sweat.

[hardwareguy]

Re: eMachines T3092 random no video; bad caps?

AHHH! Nichicon HM/HN plague again!

If you wish, you can use *NEW* HM or HN series on that board if you like....all indications are that they have been fixed for at least 3 years now.

Of course some have understandably gone to Rubycon MBZ for HM and Rubycon MCZ for HN replacements.

UCC KZG is known bad...possibly even now so avoid it. KZJ is a lower ESR version of KZG and has given sporadic issues in the shop as well.

The main reason I went back to HN/HM after I heard they were fixed was availability. In my area they are extremely easy to get. (Mouser is a distributor...and I live 13 miles from the warehouse. )

Be sure to tin your iron and clean the tip after use. Also, clean the tip whenever it gets black stuff on it. I usually wipe my tip several times in the course of a mobo recap. Use a wet sponge or a wire ball type cleaner.