Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

    Hi guys I bought this motherboard of a seller on ebay.es

    He listed it as used and stated it is in good working condition

    In fairness it does actually work (I only tried booting to BIOS with both AGP and PCIe graphics cards and yes it does)

    However he used a stock photo of the board and the one I received is dirty and has at least five blown capacitors (see pics)

    When I pointed this out his reply was

    'The board works perfectly as you indicate, if 5 capacitors failed it would not work, so it is not necessary to replace any capacitor.

    It may have caught some dust in storage and I apologize for that.

    There is no other board like that with the cheapest price in all of Europe and working perfectly, so the purchase you have made is perfect and according to the indicated description.'


    I could take this matter up with ebay but I have no idea if they would actually side with me or the seller, as yes it does appear to be working.

    Probably it's just easier for me to change the capacitors, and I did want the board and they are not as rare as he makes out but they are fairly scarce.

    Anyway seeing as it works with the capacitors in this condition, does it really matter too much what I stick in there as long as they are 105C capacitors of the same value (or a bit higher) than the original ones?
    Attached Files
    Last edited by dicky96; 04-04-2021, 07:57 AM.
    Follow me on YouTube
    ------------------
    Learn Electronics Repair
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFX...R8UZ2vg/videos

    #2
    Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

    Yes of course you need to replace the KZG capacitor with something of comparable ESR.
    Otherwise the switching regulators will probably short out if you give it a serious load and not just enter the BIOS...
    "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

      Seems like they are the input cap on the 12V rail. They're not that critical, but of course bad or inadequate caps here can cause instabilities with sudden load spikes, especially if the PSU doesn't have very good regulation.

      Whatever the seller says, this is a defective board so you should at least get a partial refund. It already happened to me and the seller was okay with a partial refund. The board was already very cheap so I only asked for a third of the price and that was more than enough to cover the cost of the caps — not the labor but I'm free anyway.
      OpenBoardView — https://github.com/OpenBoardView/OpenBoardView

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

        Originally posted by piernov View Post
        Seems like they are the input cap on the 12V rail. They're not that critical, but of course bad or inadequate caps here can cause instabilities with sudden load spikes, especially if the PSU doesn't have very good regulation.
        Based on their position I would say the are the output caps for the CPU vcore, not input caps for VRM, that should be the Panasonic's.
        "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

          You're right, I got confused. I was looking at pictures on Google and for some reason they all seem to have the KZ* on the input and the Panasonic on the output unlike this board here…
          So yes, they are critical and I don't see how that board can be stable under load…
          Last edited by piernov; 04-04-2021, 09:17 AM.
          OpenBoardView — https://github.com/OpenBoardView/OpenBoardView

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

            It may not be stable under load (or it may be stable) I just tested to see if it will boot to the BIOS and both AGP and PCIe slots would work with a GPU fitted

            I also thought they were input caps on the 12V EATX connector but didn't look so close yet, that's why I wondered if they were critical as the ESR couldn't be much higher than it must be right now LOL

            I did suggest to the seller that I would accept a partial refund but he is clearly having none of it and says it is 'functioning perfectly'. So it would either be to raise a case as 'not as described' with ebay and see what they think, or just return it at my own expense (postage). I did get it at a pretty good price inc postage.
            Last edited by dicky96; 04-04-2021, 09:54 AM.
            Follow me on YouTube
            ------------------
            Learn Electronics Repair
            https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFX...R8UZ2vg/videos

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

              I popped over to the workshop to check, it's less that 5 mins from the house. They are on the Vcore side - 1500uF 6.3V.

              I don't have any of that value in my stash of bits apart from these yellow ones (see pic) which I have about 10 and they obviously were taken from something. I checked some on my ESR meter on 0-1R range and they read 0.03R

              Would they do? Apart from the pins are slightly further apart from the originals so it may be a bit fiddly to solder them but I have them here now.

              Otherwise I can find these on Ali
              https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3257...archweb201603_

              €8.94 for 40x inc postage and they have 20 reviews at 4.8 stars positive

              Or these are cheaper
              https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...archweb201603_

              €7.65 for 100x 1500uF 6.3V (or about a euro more for 1800uF 6.3V) and these have 442 reviews and 4.9 star rating. But it does not say on the listing what the leg pitch is.

              Problem with both of those is it looks like up to 2 months to arrive.
              Attached Files
              Last edited by dicky96; 04-04-2021, 10:52 AM. Reason: corrected URL
              Follow me on YouTube
              ------------------
              Learn Electronics Repair
              https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFX...R8UZ2vg/videos

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

                Good brand capacitors on Aliexpress are often counterfeits, or if you're lucky new old stock. They may not be that bad but it's something to be aware of. Main issue is that you don't know what you get, could be good, could be bad.
                The unbranded stuff is to avoid, you don't even know the specs of the caps.
                If you want good caps you have to buy from a real distributor, locally if you have one in your country. It'll be much more expensive than the stuff on Aliexpress. You get what you pay for though.

                Otherwise you can also fit some solid polymer, 820uF or 1000uF should be good here. Personally I think the solid polymer stuff on Aliexpress isn't too bad (as long as it's not misadvertised liquid electrolyte), but others may have a different opinion.

                I think these NXH would be ok as a replacement, but I don't know their reliability. May not be the same dimensions but you can probably still fit them.
                OpenBoardView — https://github.com/OpenBoardView/OpenBoardView

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

                  The NXH caps have about twice the ESR of the original KZG caps.
                  But of course in their current state they are probably 1000% better
                  I would not buy electrolytic caps on Aliexpress or eBay.
                  As piernov mentioned solid polymers would be a good fit here.
                  If you want to see if the board works well using the NXH caps might work ok.
                  But I would not go all crazy and put a custom BIOS with quad core CPU support in with such a configuration!
                  "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

                    From the datasheets I read 0.026 for KZG 6.3V 1500uF and 0.028 for NXH 10V 1500uF 10x16 so that seems ok to me.
                    If they are KZJ that'd be different though.
                    Last edited by piernov; 04-05-2021, 05:13 AM.
                    OpenBoardView — https://github.com/OpenBoardView/OpenBoardView

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

                      Right you are, I read them as 1000uF for some reason.
                      "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

                        OK I can see the sense in that. These polymer caps on aliexpress have a lot of positive reviews

                        https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...%2316062%23531

                        €10.47 for 50x inc postage

                        or 50 of the same in 1500uF 6.3V are about €14 but I am not sure they would physically fit so well, they are 10x12 where the 1000uF are 8x8

                        Or maybe I'll fit the NXH to save waiting, and order some polymers for stock anyway. They are always worth having. As the NXH are pulls, I can check them with both capacitance and ESR meters and I have more than I need so no problem if one or two are out of spec.
                        Last edited by dicky96; 04-05-2021, 06:10 AM.
                        Follow me on YouTube
                        ------------------
                        Learn Electronics Repair
                        https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFX...R8UZ2vg/videos

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

                          I would use the NXH caps, then if you want you can populate the empty spots with polymers too.
                          Just be sure to measure first to make sure they really are for VCC.
                          "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

                            You can use polymer caps there from a old non-working gpu, I keep old junk for that reason. Even 2.5V polymers will work just fine as you are dealing with Vcore filter caps which handle around 1.3~1.5V. I recently found some really good Sanyo 820uf 2.5V from a garbage 7600GT. S775 CPU-VRM phases are meant for the Vcore cause there is no on-die memory controller or igpu graphics, the graphics if present are inside the northbridge.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

                              check the cap diameter. 8mm diameter caps have a lead spacing of 3.5mm while 10mm diameter caps have a lead spacing of 5mm. be careful if its 8mm diameter caps on the board because the cap placement on the pcb has the caps bunched together side by side right next to each other. if u use fatter 10mm diameter caps, they wont have the space to fit then.

                              if u do decide to keep the board and fix it, u can still give either positive or neutral feedback to the seller and knock down his detailed seller rating for item description to 3/5 stars or something because he did not use actual pictures of the item. it looked more like he wanted to offload and get rid of something fast for cash because he was hard up due to the covid pandemic and u turned out to be his convenient sucka.

                              if u wanna use the nxh korean caps as a temporary fix for further testing of full functionality of the board, that should be fine if u use a medium powered 3 ghz cpu or slower. if u wanna use the tdp busting p4 3.8 ghz presshot cpu or any of the pentium d series cpus, then u better use jap polymer caps like panasonic oscon sepc, chemicon npcap psc series or nichicon fpcap L8 series.

                              and lastly, stop using the board until u get the caps fixed. the seller is a nub. u never run a board with visibly bad caps because it has a high chance of killing the board. plenty of threads here on bcn where running a board with bad caps eventually killed the board. after that, recapping the board will no longer fix it or bring it back to life.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

                                I'm not using the board at moment. Actually I was going to fit a core 2 as they are faster than a 775 P4, even though the clock is lower

                                The fastest core 2 I have is 3.0GHz, I think, but I didn't check if this board supports that yet. I'm sure it does not work in all LGA 775 boards.
                                Follow me on YouTube
                                ------------------
                                Learn Electronics Repair
                                https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFX...R8UZ2vg/videos

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

                                  Originally posted by zunasthegreat View Post
                                  You can use polymer caps there from a old non-working gpu
                                  +10

                                  The two 8800 GT cards Dicky96 has from this thread should make nice donors if he has no plans for them. I think most 8800/9800 GT cards come with 2.5V 820 uF UCC PSC / Sanyo SEPC or equivalent polymers, and those will work great for CPU VRMs.

                                  Alternatively, @Dicky96, if these caps have already arrived, you could probably use those as well if you can get them to fit in the 8 mm spots without sticking too much above the board, as they may interfere with the CPU heatsink otherwise. Worth a try, though.

                                  Looks like you have 10x 8 mm spots on the CPU VRM output / low side. So if you want, you can also mix-n-match polies with regular caps to get both higher capacitance and low ESR.

                                  Originally posted by dicky96 View Post
                                  Otherwise I can find these on Ali
                                  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3257...archweb201603_

                                  €8.94 for 40x inc postage and they have 20 reviews at 4.8 stars positive

                                  Or these are cheaper
                                  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...archweb201603_

                                  €7.65 for 100x 1500uF 6.3V (or about a euro more for 1800uF 6.3V) and these have 442 reviews and 4.9 star rating. But it does not say on the listing what the leg pitch is.
                                  I suggest to avoid buying electrolytic caps on AliExpress, unless you can specifically verify they are genuine (either seller showing shipping box from a reputable cap company or being a seller that has other caps that appear to be NOS.)

                                  The caps in the 2nd link look especially generic and crap. No telling what you will be getting. And for the 2 months that it would take for them to get to you - definitely not worth it.

                                  Originally posted by dicky96 View Post
                                  The fastest core 2 I have is 3.0GHz, I think, but I didn't check if this board supports that yet. I'm sure it does not work in all LGA 775 boards.
                                  It's the same thing as with my 775Dual-SATA2: you only get up to 1066 MHz FSB... so not sure if 1333 MHz FSB CPUs will run or not. According to CPU-upgrade website, there is a C2D E8400 (1333 MHz FSB) listed on there, but reported to run @ 2.4 GHz only... and that's probably with the latest BIOS only (not to mention you likely won't be able to OC the CPU/FSB either, so that would be the max speed.) I don't see any mention for other 45 nm C2D CPUs, otherwise an E5200 (2.5 GHz with 800 MHz FSB) could give you some really nice clocks @ 1066 FSB. However, the board does seem to support an E4700, which is a 2.6 GHz CPU with 800 MHz FSB. That should by far allow you to get the highest OC, I think... well, as far as the CPU can go anyways. If not, you'll just have to live with 2.6 GHz. ... which will blow any P4 and PD out of the water at that speed.
                                  Last edited by momaka; 04-11-2021, 01:40 AM.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

                                    @momaka
                                    Yeah at least one of the 8800GT is now toast mate

                                    Thing is the caps of those 8800GT are lower capacitance than this motherboard - maybe 680uF - I need to check, but certainly not 1500uF.

                                    There are more caps on these GPUs than I need so I could also put some in unpopulated spaces of course, increasing the capacitance.

                                    I take what you say about Alixpress caps, but when they have so many (hundreds) positive feedback it would seem they are OK.

                                    PS - I found something very nice, a retro GPU, at the flea market today for €3. I do hope it is working
                                    Last edited by piernov; 10-22-2022, 08:39 AM.
                                    Follow me on YouTube
                                    ------------------
                                    Learn Electronics Repair
                                    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFX...R8UZ2vg/videos

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

                                      Originally posted by dicky96 View Post
                                      Thing is the caps of those 8800GT are lower capacitance than this motherboard - maybe 680uF - I need to check, but certainly not 1500uF.
                                      doesnt matter. because u can mix n match them with higher capacitance electrolytics to increase the overall bulk capacitance anyway that this is a non-issue.
                                      Originally posted by dicky96 View Post
                                      I take what you say about Alixpress caps, but when they have so many (hundreds) positive feedback it would seem they are OK.
                                      most people are nubs. how many know how to test the caps with an esr meter to see their actual specs and then monitor how long it will last? the lifespan is the most critical factor which is almost never posted or talked about much less proven...
                                      Originally posted by dicky96 View Post
                                      PS - I found something very nice, a retro GPU, at the flea market today for €3. I do hope it is working.
                                      do post it in the cheap free scores thread. some of us here who also dabble in retro stuff would be interested to see what u got.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: Asrock 775Dual-VSTA needs capacitors

                                        Originally posted by dicky96 View Post
                                        @momaka
                                        Yeah at least one of the 8800GT is now toast mate

                                        Thing is the caps of those 8800GT are lower capacitance than this motherboard - maybe 680uF - I need to check, but certainly not 1500uF.

                                        There are more caps on these GPUs than I need so I could also put some in unpopulated spaces of course, increasing the capacitance.
                                        Oh, nice, I didn't know you had a YT channel. Cool video!

                                        Well, it looks like your 8800 GT cards are using SMD caps, so that's probably another turn-off right there... not that you couldn't pull them out and solder leads to them to use in a through hole spot (been there and done that more times than I'd like to have )... but it's fidgity business. Only worth it when you're going full-blown ghetto-modding , like I did with these old AGP GeForce 6800XT video cards.

                                        Originally posted by dicky96 View Post
                                        I take what you say about Alixpress caps, but when they have so many (hundreds) positive feedback it would seem they are OK.
                                        I don't know. Still possible you will get counterfeit caps (that is, if they are even advertising Japanese caps.) Otherwise, if you get Cheng/Chang/Chong/X, might as well pour some cat piss in a bulged CapXon and put it back in use. (Actually, I've also been there and done that.... though not with cat piss and not with CapXon - was with water and Sacon FZ... and for a few moments, YES, it made the cap work again before it vaporized the water again )

                                        That said, I remember many years ago when I used to read PSU reviews on NewEgg. Many of the cheapest low-end / budget units consistently got a lot of positive reviews and typically about 4 stars on average. But that was only because most people would buy these, slap them in a machine, and if it worked they left a positive review. The small number of negative reviews were those from people who either got a DOA unit (quite a few) and those that came back to report after some time that their PSU burned out (not many, but still a considerable amount.) So I take it something like that would probably be the case with these cheapo caps - at least the electrolytics. That is, you may be getting a cheap product that doesn't last. But by the time you've discovered the caps are counterfeit/bad, the seller is likely gone or positive review was already left and just nothing to be done to inform others. Now with polymer caps, it might be a slightly different story as even the cheap brands can do a little more decently... though I've still seen cheap poly cap failures on here, so I'm a bit weary personally.
                                        Last edited by piernov; 10-22-2022, 08:39 AM.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X