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Old 02-26-2016, 02:13 PM   #1841
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

recently, got a like new socket 478 abit ic7-g max ii advance off trashbay for US$9.99. shipping was a killer though. US$35 for the shipping to singapore through the global shipping program. shipping cost more than 3 times the value of the item! its still a good score tho. its a boardful of my fav caps, rubycons!!! that really saved me from getting another crappy trashbay asus p4c800 which almost always comes with a boardful of osts! was a nightmare recapping all the 30+ caps on the one i had...

been stress testing the mobo since getting it on tue. so far so good. all slots, connectors etc. all working fine. i also took the liberty of inspecting the northbridge heatsink and i found slight traces of dust. board most likely only been used for a couple of weeks then kept in storage. aside from that, it looks and smells like new!
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Old 03-01-2016, 02:02 PM   #1842
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

Carboot starting again this Sunday so hopefully can find some scores.

Bought a job lot of dvd recorders and bluray players for 100 (quite a few were working trade ins. AV store) Guy threw in a few vhs to dvd recorders which turned out to be worth more than the whole lot many times over! At the time had no idea and in fact refused quite a few as just thought I'd have to bin them.
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Old 03-01-2016, 02:29 PM   #1843
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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recently, got a like new socket 478 abit ic7-g max ii advance off trashbay for US$9.99. shipping was a killer though. US$35 for the shipping to singapore through the global shipping program. shipping cost more than 3 times the value of the item! its still a good score tho. its a boardful of my fav caps, rubycons!!! that really saved me from getting another crappy trashbay asus p4c800 which almost always comes with a boardful of osts! was a nightmare recapping all the 30+ caps on the one i had...

been stress testing the mobo since getting it on tue. so far so good. all slots, connectors etc. all working fine. i also took the liberty of inspecting the northbridge heatsink and i found slight traces of dust. board most likely only been used for a couple of weeks then kept in storage. aside from that, it looks and smells like new!
Huh,the "near" match of that in the S754 era would be EPoX EP-8KDA7I. Rubycon caps on the VRM,and small 1000uF 6.3V OSTs everywhere,but that's because most stuff doesn't need more than that. And the exact opposite of the EPoX would be a ASUS K8U-X (ULi M1689) - 820uF 6.3v Pannies everywhere,new unused KZGs (little to no usage) on VRM high (1000uF 16v) and OSTs (from a discarded A7V8X-X)on VRM low (1500uF 6.3v). Oh,and one of the VRM high caps isn't a KZG,but it's a Panny FL.

Also,recapping a whole board isn't that hard. I've already got used to it - just a few days ago I had to preventively recap a ASRock K8NF6G-VSTA (GF6100/nF405 chipset) - while VRM high were '06 Nichicon HMs and VRM low were '06 OST RLX (which is a good combination,haven't seen any failed OSTs so far),EVERY 1000uF 6.3v cap on the board...was a Evercon. Thanks god I had a bag full of OST RLX (white text,which is good for such applications) so I replaced about 15-16 of them (total was about 21-22 caps). I am only going to say it once,but Evercon is exactly the equivalent of POWMAX to caps. Heck,even OST is better than Evercon. A lot better.

BTW,my favourite caps are Panasonics,because of their gold color and their bung,but also because they're built to last forever.
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Old 03-01-2016, 02:55 PM   #1844
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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Originally Posted by mikay786 View Post
Carboot starting again this Sunday so hopefully can find some scores.

Bought a job lot of dvd recorders and bluray players for 100 (quite a few were working trade ins. AV store) Guy threw in a few vhs to dvd recorders which turned out to be worth more than the whole lot many times over! At the time had no idea and in fact refused quite a few as just thought I'd have to bin them.
Im thinking of doing something like this soon too make some extra cash and gain more electronics experience what items do you find good for resale ?
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Old 03-01-2016, 04:01 PM   #1845
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

There's a market for everything, I've been ebaying for years and find much of time just cleaning, taking good photographs and offering shipping where feasible will bring in profits. Buy it now, and just be patient.

Computer parts and AV gear are my bread and butter, but I'm willing to to try owt. Just got to try and avoid stuff that's all ready been tinkered with and get hold of raw returns / faulty items.

That lot I got was about 35 items, 40% beyond my repair. 30% easy repairs. 30% working. Took me a couple of weekends to get through it all. There's even good money to be made from the unrepairable units if you have the space / time parting them out. PSU are with 25 a pop on eBay.

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Old 03-01-2016, 04:09 PM   #1846
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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There's a market for everything, I've been ebaying for years and find much of time just cleaning, taking good photographs and offering shipping where feasible will bring in profits. Buy it now, and just be patient.

Computer parts and AV gear are my bread and butter, but I'm willing to to try owt. Just got to try and avoid stuff that's all ready been tinkered with and get hold of raw returns / faulty items.
Thanks for the advice i wish i could find a raw returns / faulty items supplier in the past ive picked up some good free/cheap stuff up from free cycle/gumtree ie tvs /computers/laptops etc its just making a profit after repairs etc but have made some good money.
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Old 03-01-2016, 04:23 PM   #1847
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

Picked up an Advent AV550S for $15 at a thrift store as-is, untested. Turns out someone's blown the woofer but the amp still works fine.

On the way home I found a $5 on the ground so now I have a 250W sub amp for $10. Got an old 2x 10" cabinet in the garage so that'll be a fun project for another day.
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Old 03-01-2016, 04:28 PM   #1848
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

In the uk theres not many thrift store/charity shops that actually sell electronics we have the likes of cash generators/cash convertor/cex etc but there prices are way too high imo hence we use carboots/facebook buying/selling pages etc.
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:09 PM   #1849
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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Originally Posted by mikay786 View Post
Guy threw in a few vhs to dvd recorders which turned out to be worth more than the whole lot many times over!
Yes, good analog-to-digital video hardware still costs a lot of money these days. You can buy one of those cheap RCA/S-video to USB capture devices on eBay for under $10, but the quality you get out of them is nowhere near a professional ones. Not to mention the software they usually come with is a joke. I finally got mine to capture video acceptably well with Ulead Video Studio. It's still not perfect, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81
... new unused KZGs (little to no usage) on VRM high (1000uF 16v)
Ugh, if there is one thing KZG hates, it's sitting on the shelf with no voltage applied. I had a motherboard (ASUS P5GC-MX) given to me. It has a ton of KZG on it. I was told the motherboard did lots of power-on hours. All of those KZG caps were fine on it. I then put it for 2 years in storage, and now two KZGs have already failed on it (and probably more are on their way or not showing it). As soon as I get caps for it, they are all going to get replaced.

IMO, almost anything is better than KZG - save for Evercon/Sacon/GSC/Elcon, which I agree with you are the worst garbage you can find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81
... VRM low were '06 OST RLX (which is a good combination,haven't seen any failed OSTs so far)
If they are the 10 mm diamater RLX, then they are more likely to last. But the 8 mm RLX is a disaster, in my experience. I'd say out of the whole bunch, the best of OST is their RLS series - either the white letters on black sleeve or gold letters on black sleeve found in older OEM PSUs, such as Lite-ON.


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On the way home I found a $5 on the ground so now I have a 250W sub amp for $10.

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Old 03-03-2016, 03:57 AM   #1850
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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IMO, almost anything is better than KZG - save for Evercon/Sacon/GSC/Elcon, which I agree with you are the worst garbage you can find.
Toshin Kogyo ATWY/ATWB are worse than KZG/KZJ, at least, in my experience. Not saying much though. HMs/HNs with 2001-2005 datecodes aren't any better either, particularly HNs with 2003-2004 datecodes - I don't think I've ever seen one that hadn't popped with 2-3 years of extremely light use (those are definitely worse than KZJ). But in Nichicon's defense, at least they rectified whatever issue they had. For what it's worth, I don't think every KZG and KZJ to be terrible - at least, I don't think the 1500uF 16V KZJs would do well on old Xbox 360 motherboards otherwise.

Quote:
If they are the 10 mm diamater RLX, then they are more likely to last. But the 8 mm RLX is a disaster, in my experience. I'd say out of the whole bunch, the best of OST is their RLS series - either the white letters on black sleeve or gold letters on black sleeve found in older OEM PSUs, such as Lite-ON.
OST are too inconsistent to really make such assertions - sometimes they last many years, other times they fail after 6 months of use. Overall, though, I would definitely put OST RLX and RLZ above Teapo SZ (which IMHO are worse than KZG) and OST RLS above Teapo SM, and OST RLP above Teapo SC for sure. Yes, Sacon FZ is the worst of the worst. Does a GOOD Sacon FZ actually exist? ...

The worst series from OST would have to be the 680uF 4V 8x8 RLA series, which are known to ALL bulge after 6 months to 1 year of use no matter which batch 99.9% of the time (the heat coming from the CPU blowing across them doesn't help any). The white/black sleeved OSTs use PET material (polyester, or polyethylene terephthalate), and the gold/black likely PVC (polyvinyl chloride).
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Old 03-03-2016, 07:38 AM   #1851
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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Ugh, if there is one thing KZG hates, it's sitting on the shelf with no voltage applied. I had a motherboard (ASUS P5GC-MX) given to me. It has a ton of KZG on it. I was told the motherboard did lots of power-on hours. All of those KZG caps were fine on it.
These KZGs I used were on a motherboard that didn't have a lot of power on hours. (in fact,it was almost new from the box,just lightly dusty)

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IMO, almost anything is better than KZG - save for Evercon/Sacon/GSC/Elcon, which I agree with you are the worst garbage you can find.
Heh,you'd laugh but the K8U-X I just installed the OSTs had wrong caps installed - they didn't even care about the diameter,just pop in and solder. One of the caps was a 2200uF 16V Jackon (why would someone install a 16v cap in a 6.3v spot I can't understand,it's really overkill...),the other one was some noname cap (literally no name on the cap) and the other was a Samwha RD - the last one I've also seen on a MSI 865PE Neo2 I had bought - both the PSU (FSP300-60GTP) and the board were having bad caps. The former was fixed by myself - bulged Hermei on 5vSB replaced with some old '94 datecode Nichicon PW (or PL?...can't remember now) and the latter was partially fixed with "floating" (caps had their pins prolonged to fit) Samwha RD (that's how I literally got it),and one of the HM bulgers (Nichicon) was simply removed by me. Funny enough,the CPU installed was...a 3.0GHz Prescott. Oh joy.

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Originally Posted by momaka View Post
If they are the 10 mm diamater RLX, then they are more likely to last. But the 8 mm RLX is a disaster, in my experience. I'd say out of the whole bunch, the best of OST is their RLS series - either the white letters on black sleeve or gold letters on black sleeve found in older OEM PSUs, such as Lite-ON.
They're the usual small ones (dunno about the diameter) that are used on most boards near the RAM slots. They are with white letters. I have some gold letter on black sleeve RLS though.

Wester547 - Oh god,you don't have any idea how BAD TK can be. While EVERY BAD KZG I've had was bulging,TKs I extracted from a S754 Biostar K8M800-M7 motherboard were bad without any visible bulging.

And the question wasn't made correctly on your point : Will there EVER BE a good Sacon FZ?

Strangely,I've never had any older MB than S754 (this meaning anything from S462 to S478) with bulged Teapos,and that's from MSI,the brand we all knew for using Teapos. Only the latest MSI K8N Neo2-V I have (which had a burnt nF3 chip,judging by the darkened sticker under the MB) had some bulging Teapos.
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Old 03-03-2016, 10:04 AM   #1852
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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with some old '94 datecode Nichicon PW (or PL?...can't remember now)
That would be PL. PW was not in production in 1994. The Hermei in the FSP could have been a Jamicon as well as both use the honeycomb etched vents now and then, but it wouldn't take me aback to see a bad Hermei in a FSP either.

Quote:
Wester547 - Oh god,you don't have any idea how BAD TK can be. While EVERY BAD KZG I've had was bulging,TKs I extracted from a S754 Biostar K8M800-M7 motherboard were bad without any visible bulging.
Yup, every "good looking" TK ATWY or ATWB that I've bothered to measure has either developed high leakage current (a thinned, defective, or non-existent oxide) or was going open. I've seen KZGs and KZJs fail silently as well, but not at that rate. I'd have to say the worst brand for failing without showing it, regardless of series, is Teapo. OST is a close second.

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And the question wasn't made correctly on your point : Will there EVER BE a good Sacon FZ?
Neither.

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Old 03-03-2016, 08:01 PM   #1853
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These KZGs I used were on a motherboard that didn't have a lot of power on hours. (in fact,it was almost new from the box,just lightly dusty)
That's why they are more likely to be bad.
At least it my experience, it seems that KZG electrolyte seems to be too unstable when sitting with no voltage applied.

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replaced with some old '94 datecode Nichicon PW (or PL?...can't remember now)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547
That would be PL. PW was not in production in 1994.
Could it also be PR series?
Either way, beware! Nichicon PL and PR series had some problems that would make the caps leak electrolyte from the bungs. I can definitely confirm this for the PR series. A while back, I pulled a good number of Nichicon PR caps from a dead TV board, thinking I could re-use them in my PSUs. Almost half of them leaked within 6 months in storage. The other half started leaking when I applied voltage on them. Nearly ruined a PSU of mine. Luckily, I knew something was not right, because not only was the PSU unstable, but it also emitted a horrible smell, which turned out to be the electrolyte from the cap.

Anyways, see this thread for a complete list of affected Nichicon and Chemicon capacitors affected by this issue:
http://badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26246

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And the question wasn't made correctly on your point : Will there EVER BE a good Sacon FZ?
I guess we all agree Sacon FZ is pure garbage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547
Yup, every "good looking" TK ATWY or ATWB that I've bothered to measure has either developed high leakage current (a thinned, defective, or non-existent oxide) or was going open.
I guess I better fully recap my Gateway GT-5656 PC, then (it has an ECS MCP61PM-AM motherboard).
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Old 03-03-2016, 08:26 PM   #1854
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That's why they are more likely to be bad.
At least it my experience, it seems that KZG electrolyte seems to be too unstable when sitting with no voltage applied.
It doesn't really make sense to me why they'd be less stable in storage. Unless UCC used very poor hydrogen neutralizers and other additives (silicates, phosphates, nitrates, etc...) in those particular series but that doesn't sound like them. It is definitely possible for enough electrolytic vapor and gas pressure to increase inside the can without any potential across the leads, because the impurities in the solution can release hydrogen all on their own, and it doesn't help that the chemistry changes more as electrolytics discharge (bias across the plates also inhibits foil corrosion). The fact that they are high on the aqueous spectrum doesn't help, because while H2O plays a big part in augmenting the conductivity of the electrolyte (conductivity enhancers can combat this to some extent), but the higher presence of water lowers the boiling point, or the temperature at which the electrolyte becomes liquidus, or reaches the phase temperature (H2O boils at 100*C, and the common solvent Ethylene Glycol boils at 197*C - big difference). This is exactly why Rubycon MCZ doesn't handle heat that well.

Quote:
Could it also be PR series?
Either way, beware! Nichicon PL and PR series had some problems that would make the caps leak electrolyte from the bungs. I can definitely confirm this for the PR series. A while back, I pulled a good number of Nichicon PR caps from a dead TV board, thinking I could re-use them in my PSUs. Almost half of them leaked within 6 months in storage. The other half started leaking when I applied voltage on them. Nearly ruined a PSU of mine.
I suppose it's a separate issue from the Panasonic FLs that you found leaking just from the desoldering heat. But yes, a long time ago, long before the proper mixture of inhibitors and oxidizers were found that controlled the highly water base electrolyte (Rubycon was the first to achieve that), in order to increase the conductivity of the electrolyte without having to succumb to the effects of H2O, the quaternary ammonium salts / compounds existed. Too bad the rubber bungs and wire leads weren't sufficient enough to seal that solution in the long run.

Quote:
Luckily, I knew something was not right, because not only was the PSU unstable, but it also emitted a horrible smell, which turned out to be the electrolyte from the cap.
The "pleasant aroma" of released electrolyte either smells of feline urine or rotten fish, in my experience. Definitely not pleasant.

Quote:
I guess I better fully recap my Gateway GT-5656 PC, then (it has an ECS MCP61PM-AM motherboard).
Well, I'm not saying every ATWY or ATWB in existence has failed, just that they have a very high failure rate, bulged or not.
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Old 03-03-2016, 11:55 PM   #1855
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

10 Years ago this summer..I picked up a Marantz model 2 amplifier...out of the TRASH... I sold it to someone in FRANCE a month or so later...from Ebay..

I did pretty good on it...needless to say..even with the Paypal conversion fee and all !!

And a couple of months earlier...I picked up a Mcintosh model MC_60 Amp...ALSO a curb-find. Someone from Arizona got that one..


Did ok on that one too !!
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Old 03-04-2016, 12:42 AM   #1856
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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That would be PL. PW was not in production in 1994. The Hermei in the FSP could have been a Jamicon as well as both use the honeycomb etched vents now and then, but it wouldn't take me aback to see a bad Hermei in a FSP either.

Yup, every "good looking" TK ATWY or ATWB that I've bothered to measure has either developed high leakage current (a thinned, defective, or non-existent oxide) or was going open. I've seen KZGs and KZJs fail silently as well, but not at that rate. I'd have to say the worst brand for failing without showing it, regardless of series, is Teapo. OST is a close second.

Neither.
Very likely a PL,they were out of a fat gray PS1 Nichicon-made PSU.

And yes,that honeycomb vent cap was really a Hermei,and a tall 2200 one to top that. Unrelated tho,but I used G-Luxons in an voltage stabilizer,both tested good. Out of a Deer I modded.

And I never had failed OSTs. Not even once.
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Old 03-04-2016, 08:33 AM   #1857
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And I never had failed OSTs. Not even once.
While I have seen OST last "in spec" before, capacitance and ESR aren't the only concern for an electrolytic's health. Leakage current and Vloss are just as vital if not more. A capacitor can measure in spec for ESR and capacitance but yield as much as 8x the the maximum allowed leakage current.

Quote:
Guy threw in a few vhs to dvd recorders which turned out to be worth more than the whole lot many times over! At the time had no idea and in fact refused quite a few as just thought I'd have to bin them.
Nice score - I wish those were easier to come by.

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Old 03-04-2016, 10:12 PM   #1858
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And I never had failed OSTs. Not even once.
Oh, just wait your turn, alright.

Or perhaps you'd like to fix my Shuttle XPC FB83 for me? It most likely requires a new Northbridge. All thanks to failed OST caps

That PC was given to me broken, though. Personally, I haven't had any OST caps fail in any of my motherboards or PSUs either. But I still don't trust them, of course. Thus, I do have replacements "ready to go" in case those OSTs do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547
I suppose it's a separate issue from the Panasonic FLs that you found leaking just from the desoldering heat.
Yes, different issues indeed.
Panasonic in general tends to use very soft rubber bungs for their caps - which is good, because they don't harden as much with age and probably seal better. That said, they do melt a little easier than on other caps.

The issues I had with those Panasonic FLs is when I tried to remove them from a motherboard with an iron that wasn't big enough to heat the joints to a really high temperature, so I had to pull on the caps a bit harder. The MCZ and HN/HZ caps pulled out fine, but the Panny FLs did start to have signs of "weak" legs afterwards (i.e. you could pull and push the leads in and out a little with a pair of pliers).
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Old 03-04-2016, 10:23 PM   #1859
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That PC was given to me broken, though. Personally, I haven't had any OST caps fail in any of my motherboards or PSUs either. But I still don't trust them, of course. Thus, I do have replacements "ready to go" in case those OSTs do.
They're better than Teapo and Hermei, I'll give them that. About the same as LTEC, or below Taicon. Not reliable but not the worst by far.

Quote:
Yes, different issues indeed.
Panasonic in general tends to use very soft rubber bungs for their caps - which is good, because they don't harden as much with age and probably seal better. That said, they do melt a little easier than on other caps. The issues I had with those Panasonic FLs is when I tried to remove them from a motherboard with an iron that wasn't big enough to heat the joints to a really high temperature, so I had to pull on the caps a bit harder. The MCZ and HN/HZ caps pulled out fine, but the Panny FLs did start to have signs of "weak" legs afterwards (i.e. you could pull and push the leads in and out a little with a pair of pliers).
So was the issue the fact that the leads had decomposed or was it the soft rubber? Since I noticed when capacitors leak that it's always from one of the two leads or both. I recall some folks noting on this forum that Panasonic FC are known to leak as well over time - because of the leads or rubber? Or both? I hope not another solution that's prone to leaking over time like the quaternary ammonium salts of the late 80s / early 90s.
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Old 03-04-2016, 10:48 PM   #1860
momaka
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
So was the issue the fact that the leads had decomposed or was it the soft rubber?
Just soft rubber. Nothing wrong with it actually, until you try to desolder the cap and pull a bit harder on the leads. So when pulling Panasonic caps for re-use, I always try to be more gentle.

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Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
I recall some folks noting on this forum that Panasonic FC are known to leak as well over time
I *think* that was a claim made by stj (but please excuse me if I got it wrong). Don't ask me what thread, though, because I can't remember even if my life depended on it.

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Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
I hope not another solution that's prone to leaking over time like the quaternary ammonium salts of the late 80s / early 90s.
Actually, speaking of this, I just noticed yesterday that I had some small Nichicon PM 5x11 mm caps leaking a little from both leads (green, puffy corrosion near the bung). So far, it only seems to be a bag of eight 16 V 100 uF caps only. I bought them back in 2010 or 2011 (or possibly early 2012) and used only a few, I think. Hopefully, this is just an isolated case with those caps and not a whole series problem. PM is supposed to be a replacement series for PL, so I wonder if they still have those quaternary ammonium salts problems. Meanwhile, it seems that my various bags of Nichicon PS caps (bought at same time as PM above) seem to be okay. PS is supposedly a replacement series for PR.

Last edited by momaka; 03-04-2016 at 10:54 PM..
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