How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

[tom66]

Looking to use these to replace some crap Samyoung capacitors in a plasma TV's power supply:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/allied...ge/2550081580/

Also... I am not sure if RS Online will ship to me as I am not VAT registered.

[Toasty]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

CDE does not make low ESR caps, so don't go looking for any for the output side.

Those, however, are excellent for the mains side filters. CDE has a good reputation and is a rather old company (think tube TV & radio). I've used that series in some ATX PSUs mains side filters before with excellent results.

[tom66]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

CDE does not make low ESR caps, so don't go looking for any for the output side.

Those, however, are excellent for the mains side filters. CDE has a good reputation and is a rather old company (think tube TV & radio). I've used that series in some ATX PSUs mains side filters before with excellent results.

Hmm. They are used for the Va bus in the TV so probably need to be low ESR. I was also looking at these Panasonic caps:

http://uk.mouser.com/Search/ProductD...-EET-HC2E561HA

but they are snap-in - will they fit in a normal hole? I was going to mount them upside down, and run leads to the holes and solder the leads to the capacitors. It would be a bodge, but it would work.

[Toasty]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

>>Hmm. They are used for the Va bus in the TV so probably need to be low ESR.<<

Va bus?

TS are fine also. Still not low ESR.

[tom66]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

>>Hmm. They are used for the Va bus in the TV so probably need to be low ESR.<<

Va bus?

TS are fine also. Still not low ESR.

Plasma TV. I think I mean Vs bus.

The original caps are Samyoung KMH. So would TS not be good?

[Toasty]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

You posed the question "How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?" and I answered in kind.

Vs Still means nothing to me. Is this in the mains supply side, the SMPS output side, or elsewhere?

I'm basing my replies on what you posted in your first link. These types of caps are not low ESR. Nor do they need to be. They are typically handling nothing higher than 120Hz ripple. What does matter is how much they can handle in amperes.

In the case of the 380LQ series:
ESR is 0.355Ω @ 120Hz and 0.160Ω @ 20kHz
Ripple is 2.25A @120Hz and 3.15A @ 20kHz

I have no access to the KMH datasheet from SamYoung. Closest I can come is the screw terminal type of the same series. No snap-in cap sheet.

That series (KMH) is superseded with the TDA series.

You've only presented the info of the replacement(s) you've chose. No info about the original as far as dimensions, voltage, capacitance, tolerance, nor temperature.

Going from the TDA series, the 380LQ is not acceptable because they are only 85°C cap whereas the TDA is 105°C. OTOH, their 381LQ series is rated for 105°C.

The Panasonic HC series, TS type is also 105°C rated. No indication as to ESR, and the ripple @ 120Hz is 1.50A. The CDE cap, 381LQ series, is a better choice.

.

[tom66]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

You posed the question "How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?" and I answered in kind.

Vs Still means nothing to me. Is this in the mains supply side, the SMPS output side, or elsewhere?

I'm basing my replies on what you posted in your first link. These types of caps are not low ESR. Nor do they need to be. They are typically handling nothing higher than 120Hz ripple. What does matter is how much they can handle in amperes.

In the case of the 380LQ series:
ESR is 0.355Ω @ 120Hz and 0.160Ω @ 20kHz
Ripple is 2.25A @120Hz and 3.15A @ 20kHz

I have no access to the KMH datasheet from SamYoung. Closest I can come is the screw terminal type of the same series. No snap-in cap sheet.

That series (KMH) is superseded with the TDA series.

You've only presented the info of the replacement(s) you've chose. No info about the original as far as dimensions, voltage, capacitance, tolerance, nor temperature.

Going from the TDA series, the 380LQ is not acceptable because they are only 85°C cap whereas the TDA is 105°C. OTOH, their 381LQ series is rated for 105°C.

The Panasonic HC series, TS type is also 105°C rated. No indication as to ESR, and the ripple @ 120Hz is 1.50A. The CDE cap, 381LQ series, is a better choice.

.

Sorry. The Vs bus is for the sustain boards. It is on the output side of the PSU and I believe it provides most, if not all the power to the panel, so three 560u/250V caps have to filter this. The panel Vs runs at around 190V. I would guess low ESR would be important as the panel can eat 2-3A at 190V to display full white.

The original is 30mm diameter and height has no particular constraints as the TV is about 5 inches thick.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

SamYoung used to be in cahoots with Chemicon.
When the series name is the same so are the specs.

[Toasty]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

Thanks PC!

@tom66-
There's no need to quote me every time you reply. It just makes the page looooong.

From the UCC KMH sheet of 2007:

560 EKMH251VSN561MR35T
Size: 30 x 35mm
ESR Max: @ 120Hz - 0.296Ω
Ripple: @ 120Hz - 1.79A

So the HC's are not good enough and the 381LQ's are still the better choice.

?? - Why are you looking to replace these caps in the first place?

.

[tom66]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

The caps were bulged, so I am replacing them. I don't know if it's common for these to bulge, but they have.

Panasonic TS is close, with an ESR of 0.33 ohms, so it's probably fine to use those.

[Toasty]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

No, they are not. The ripple is less and the ESR is higher. EQUAL or BETTER is the rule.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

Better is Lower ESR and/or Higher Ripple.
.

[tom66]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

No, they are not. The ripple is less and the ESR is higher. EQUAL or BETTER is the rule.

Then what do I do, as I cannot easily source KMH here.

[Toasty]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

Where is here? Fill in the Location info in your profile please.

>>I was going to mount them upside down, and run leads to the holes and solder the leads to the capacitors. It would be a bodge, but it would work.<<

Are the originals snap-in or not?
By the KMH sheet, they are.

Doing what you suggested would severely screw-up the circuit. Long lead length not only screws the ESR, it acts as an antenna for all types of interference.

Panasonic series:
EETED2E561CA
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/0575456/

25mm x 40mm
2.14A ripple
0.266Ω ESR @120Hz / 0.120Ω @ 20kHz

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

Where is here?

[EDIT]
Damn I'm slow.
.

[TheLaw]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

SamYoung used to be in cahoots with Chemicon.
When the series name is the same so are the specs.

Sam Young isn't associated any more? They're still decent right?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

Sam Young isn't associated any more?

I don't think they are now.
SamYoung used to brag about it in their 'Our Company' page and those remarks have been removed.
A while back they pissed Chemicon off by using a Chemicon logo with a dot in the shield as their own logo. [See PIC.]

They're still decent right?

I wouldn't trust them.
Definitely seen boards where they all bloated.
They may have had some good ones if they were getting their aluminum foils and cans from Chemicon but there is no way of knowing if or when they did.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

~I think~ [Total guess]
What was going on with that logo was Chemicon was supplying SamYoung with the materials to make caps for Chemicon [like Nichicon sometimes does with Taicon] and SamYoung was making extra for themselves during the production runs.

Then, rather than use their own sleeves on the caps that were for themselves, SamYoung just added a dot to Chemicon's sleeves to cut costs.

If you've ever seen any with the dot that dot is the only way to tell the difference.
.

[putaCAPinit]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

CDE does not make low ESR caps, so don't go looking for any for the output side.

Those, however, are excellent for the mains side filters. CDE has a good reputation and is a rather old company (think tube TV & radio). I've used that series in some ATX PSUs mains side filters before with excellent results.

I know this post is old. Just adding to it so more people will try CDE.
CDE 380 series looks like an excellent capacitor, and made in South Carolina USA!
380LX series, 10,000 uF, 25V = .04 ESR
is that not low enough?

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/88/380-382-31494.pdf

[eccerr0r]

Re: How good are Cornell-Dubilier capacitors?

... and also would like to add looking at a whole bunch of old Cornell-Dublier caps used in old pre-1970s TVs and radios, they invariably dry out such that I am inclined to replace every single one of them on the spot. Alas that would make them nearly 50 years old or older, can't expect them to last that long.