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Freezer Relay - how does it work

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    Freezer Relay - how does it work

    Hi - One of my current projects is to get a freezer working. I semi understand the basics. Repair seems to be by full replacement of faulty items ie thermostat, compressor, door!.
    Included in this is the Starter relay. I understand what this does and have the following explanation from the internet:
    The relay has a coil in it that is connected in series with the "run" winding in the compressor. When the power is applied, the compressor draws a high current as it is in a "stalled" state. This current is high enough to "pull" the relay in, which connects the "start" winding. This is connected through the capacitor which gives the start winding a "leading" state in electrical terms, which sets the motor rotating. As the motor speeds up, the current drops and is no longer sufficient to hold the relay up, and the motor continues to run without the "start" winding..
    The neutral, or cold side of the motor is connected via a small thermal breaker which cuts the motor off if it doesn't start, until the breaker cools down, then it has another go at starting. This is the buzz and "Click" noise you sometimes hear if you turn your fridge off for a short period and then back on. The compreesor often wont start if the discharge pressure is too much greater than the suction.
    Some compressors have a "run" capacitor as well which remains connected to give the motor a higher tourque, both for starting and running states.
    All of this only takes a split second. This system has been replaced in many cases by electronic relays, but they don't have the ability to "read" the rotating state of the motor as well as the relay.
    The guy who invented these relays should have received a medal. "

    I believe the one I have is electronic so most of the above doesnt apply.
    I have also looked up "how to test a relay" which brings up various ways of testing the electronmechanical type but says the "electronic" one can only be tested by an expert.

    They are not expensive to replace - probably cheaper than asking an expert to test it but being of an inquisitive nature and willing to have a bash at mending most things decided to take it to bits. I expected to find an array of small electronic components but it just seems to have two contacts with a disk of some sort between them - almost zero resistance according to my
    cheap vom. there is no internal connection to the common connector. I'd have thought +220vac to one side of a metallic disc and -220vac to the other would equal a big bang? I will have to investigate further where the common wire comes from- dont seem many wiring diagrams or schematics available on line. Might try the reference library.
    I attach photos of the relay and perhaps someone can tell me if it looks like it should work or if it looks broken. The disk may have a pale coating on it but has rubbed off where the contacts touch it.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by selldoor; 12-10-2011, 05:26 PM. Reason: spelling correction
    Please upload pictures using attachment function when ask for help on the repair
    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39740

    #2
    Re: Freezer Relay - how does it work

    That disk looks like a ceramic capacitor.

    The actual electronics are probably embedded inside the body in plastic (potted).

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Freezer Relay - how does it work

      That's a PTC thermistor. It give the start winding a kick, then as it warms up, current through start tapers off. Hopefully, the compressor is up to speed by then. Because of this, they are useless for 'hard-starting' or dealing with rapid cycling, such as when the power goes off and comes back on.

      The hum-click you hear after such an event is the compressor pulling LRA, the click is the overload dropping the compressor. After several such cycles, the PTC has cooled enough that the compressor gets a successful start.

      "Wait three minutes before restarting" is almost the same thing, but is a pressure equalizing issue. Mostly found on window aircons, this is due to the fact that the compressor is -much- harder to start with a pressure differential across it! Usually, window aircons wouldn't restart till the pressure equalized, and the PTCs in fridges/freezers have no hope of starting anything till they cool off. Most newer window units with electronic controls have a 'compressor delay' to prevent short cycling.

      A much better solution is a potential relay and start cap. AKA SuperBoost.

      In between the two is a relay coil that's in series with the run winding, and carries the run (and LRA) current. This relay has a normally open contact. When there's a call for cooling, the stat applies power to the compressor (and fans). LRA passes through the coil. The contacts close, putting the start winding and cap in. The compressor gets up to speed, the current through the run winding (and current-relay coil) drops. Once it drops low enough, the start contacts open. The starting means is removed. Run current won't quite be up to RLA, since head pressure hasn't yet developed. The diagram shows both the run and start windings going through the coil.


      -Paul
      Attached Files
      Last edited by kaboom; 12-10-2011, 07:23 PM.
      "pokemon go... to hell!"

      EOL it...
      Originally posted by shango066
      All style and no substance.
      Originally posted by smashstuff30
      guilty,guilty,guilty,guilty!
      guilty of being cheap-made!

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Freezer Relay - how does it work

        had one of those relays on a LEC fridge many years ago
        always thought the round disc was some sort of capacitor to kickstart the motor
        when the fridge failed I had to short the two contacts for a brief second and that started the motor
        as fridges cycle on and off, I had to do this often untill I was able to get a replacement a few days later
        so now I know thanks to Kaboom that it is a ptc thermistor

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Freezer Relay - how does it work-ANSWERED

          Thanks folks. Kaboom that it a great comprehensive reply.
          Oddly enough after I'd gone to bed I started thinking along those lines as
          I have been using a heat gun to lower the esr on some defective caps in a tv
          and I was thinking if the opposite happens and the resistance increases when the disk gets hot it will shut down the power. Which is what you have described. I will use the diagrams as a start point and trace back the wiring
          to find exactly how mine is set up. I did later find a site which has lots of freezer info but it only seems to cover appliances available in USA. I will
          go back to it as im sure there will some that are set up similar to mine.
          Thanks again for your quick helpful responses.
          Please upload pictures using attachment function when ask for help on the repair
          http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39740

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Freezer Relay - how does it work

            What i always do at work is check the windings with an ohm meter, depending on make and model they can be a bit different but in general one should be half of the other, and there should be very high or no resistance to ground/chassis. Once you know the windings are ok and that you have voltage in (which i assume you checked) you know its the start equipment meaning the starting cap, relay or thermal protection (sorry for bad wording, not 100% what they are called in English ) In modern compressors the thermal protection is almost always inside the compressor (at least the brands we have around here), if its busted you need a new compressor.

            There is also the slim chance that the valve or rotor (depending on type of compressor) got stuck inside due to excessive heat or similar or plain old wear, no way to solve that externally, usually that would cause the breaker to trip or the compressor to heat up (eventually killing of the winding).

            Bit tired so hope i got this all right, maybe some info that might help.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Freezer Relay - how does it work

              Thanks for the info and the schematics Paul. If I understand the discussion, the PTC device may be a source of trouble with this setup? A common repair for all capacitor start/run HVAC motors is a bad capacitor. Just test it with your multimeter - ESR is of no concern. The description of the relay is a bit confusing, or perhaps it was misidentified? FYI, the neutral is not supposed to have any type of fuse or breaker - this line goes directly to the panel. As you see in the schematic, the breaker is correctly placed in the hot side marked "L".
              Is it plugged in?

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Freezer Relay - how does it work

                Hi I no longer have a problem with the relay - as indicated above, the information provided by Kaboom enabled me to test it. Having understood how the relay worked
                I "hard wired" it and the compressor, without the complications of the fan, thermostats, lights etc and it worked fine. froze a cup of water in about 1hour.
                I have drawn myself a wiring diagram and should be able work out why it is not working, Thermostats/timer/fan/fuse? etc. and I will test and replace as required. In fact it may be that pulling the relay apart cleaning the contacts and putting back together has fixed it so my next "test" will be to just wire it back up as it was and see what happens. If it doesnt work then I will try it without the extra components in turn.
                Yes Longbow - it was plugged in and switched on. Although when I "Hard wired " it
                I did attach one wire to the Common and the other to the Live and wondered why it didnt work!! Re checked for continuity common to start and common to run etc then it dawned that the "live" terminal isnt anything to do with the relay as can be seen in my pics it is only a connection point to another wire which goes up to the top of the appliance to a molex connector.
                Please upload pictures using attachment function when ask for help on the repair
                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39740

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Freezer Relay - how does it work

                  Thank you fellas for all of the info. I am having a similar issue with a freezer unit in my building. I am in my first year of my apprenticeship and by ohming out the potential relay and checking continuity, I saved my building from having to buy a new compressor. Plus I looked really good in front of my chief engineer. I also gained some much appreciated knowledge.

                  John
                  Chicago, IL

                  Comment

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