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    #41
    Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

    I would turn off all the breakers, the have nothing connected top the outlets, then check the resistance between the bare GND (SAFETY GND) and the white Neutral wires to see if they all show <1 Ohms. You have to make sure the wrings are done correctly without miswiring.
    The reading of 126V may be reading through another phase of the LINE through loads so that bare wire may not be at GND. So also try unplug everything from all the outlets to see what you get between Line and SAFETY GND that you are getting 126VAC to see what you have with no load to the electrical system..
    Last edited by budm; 10-01-2016, 04:49 PM.
    Never stop learning
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    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

    Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
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      #42
      Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

      Originally posted by keeney123 View Post
      Something fishy there. Any pictures of what what have? If copper bare wire is connected to white in junction box you will read 120 volt from black to gnd and 120 volts from black to white. Where are you reading 126 volt? Is that on the transformer? What happens to the voltage when you disconnect the 126 volt line.?
      Probably not a bad neutral, unless you see another leg dipping insanely, such as dipping to 113 V.

      For example, one leg was 127 V and the other leg was only 114 V...
      Last edited by RJARRRPCGP; 10-01-2016, 04:46 PM.
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        #43
        Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

        Originally posted by keeney123 View Post
        Something fishy there. Any pictures of what what have? If copper bare wire is connected to white in junction box you will read 120 volt from black to gnd and 120 volts from black to white. Where are you reading 126 volt? Is that on the transformer? What happens to the voltage when you disconnect the 126 volt line.?
        Keeney123,

        We have no way of knowing where this wire goes. It appears to run up into the wall. I don't have a way to trace it yet.

        I don't think there's a transformer anywhere on it. It wouldn't really make sense for there to be one. It used to power one of those hooded vents. If I knew what breaker it went too, I'd be able to follow the wire and see if it goes to a junction box or not.

        I'm probably going to have to have my wife either go down in the basement and start flipping breakers or hold the multimeter and check for the voltage from the hot and ground and see when it goes off. I don't think we need to worry about any of the natural gas appliances now.

        The furnace and hot water tank have these auto-shutoffs. If voltage is removed, the gas valve shuts close. There's no pilots for us to light. When power is restored, they automatically open back up. We don't have to do anything at all.

        The said with the old furnace, if we lost electricity, the gas would continue to flow. If we lost electricity, we'd have to manually kill the gas to the old furnace. They said there was no safety shut-off like there is with the new ones. I'm glad we got that replaced!
        -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

        Comment


          #44
          Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

          Originally posted by RJARRRPCGP View Post
          Probably not a bad neutral, unless you see another leg dipping insanely, such as dipping to 113 V.

          For example, one leg was 127 V and the other leg was only 114 V...
          What do you mean by leg? Is that just another word for wire?
          -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

          Comment


            #45
            Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

            he's talking about the 2 phases that you combine for that 240v outlet.

            Comment


              #46
              Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

              Originally posted by Spork Schivago View Post
              Keeney123,

              We have no way of knowing where this wire goes. It appears to run up into the wall. I don't have a way to trace it yet.

              I don't think there's a transformer anywhere on it. It wouldn't really make sense for there to be one. It used to power one of those hooded vents. If I knew what breaker it went too, I'd be able to follow the wire and see if it goes to a junction box or not.

              I'm probably going to have to have my wife either go down in the basement and start flipping breakers or hold the multimeter and check for the voltage from the hot and ground and see when it goes off. I don't think we need to worry about any of the natural gas appliances now.



              The furnace and hot water tank have these auto-shutoffs. If voltage is removed, the gas valve shuts close. There's no pilots for us to light. When power is restored, they automatically open back up. We don't have to do anything at all.

              The said with the old furnace, if we lost electricity, the gas would continue to flow. If we lost electricity, we'd have to manually kill the gas to the old furnace. They said there was no safety shut-off like there is with the new ones. I'm glad we got that replaced!

              I said transformer because the voltage is step down from the usually 120 AC. 17Volt and voltages around that value are typical transformer voltages for like the door bell. Also, I believe some thermostat voltages are around this voltage. Other wise if it is directly connected to the 120 line you would have current flow on that line and some resistance would be eating up the other 103 volts.



              When RJARRRPCGP talks about leg he is referring to the different voltages on the main panel. You have two bus bars each is considered a leg. So as one bar is going towards its positive peak voltage the other is going towards it's negative peak voltage. So the difference in RMS Voltage between them is 220V RMS or around that amount. Being that you connect breakers to these bars and they go out to outlets The voltage difference between two outlets that are connected to different bus bars or legs will be 220V RMS

              Comment


                #47
                Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

                Originally posted by budm View Post
                I would turn off all the breakers, the have nothing connected top the outlets, then check the resistance between the bare GND (SAFETY GND) and the white Neutral wires to see if they all show <1 Ohms. You have to make sure the wrings are done correctly without miswiring.
                The reading of 126V may be reading through another phase of the LINE through loads so that bare wire may not be at GND. So also try unplug everything from all the outlets to see what you get between Line and SAFETY GND that you are getting 126VAC to see what you have with no load to the electrical system..
                So, I tested the outlets again. Today, they're all testing around 127VAC. My multimeter is being a bit odd. I set it to AC, and it shows something like 0.004VAC. Then I move the range over, and it shows 0.040VAC, then I move it over again, and again until I get in the 120VAC range. Then it shows 4.0VAC, and slowly counts down to around 0VAC. It takes a good 30 seconds or so before it gets to around 0VAC. I'm wondering, being as old as it is, if it needs calibration or something. It's a Craftsman from waaay back in the day (in the 1990's or so).

                I tested the wire for the hood again. I killed all the juice and striped the wire. I flipped the breakers back on and tested, now the neutral is reading like it should be. I'm thinking the dirt and stickynes that was on it might have affected the reading.

                The switch in the upstairs bathroom, by the toilet, I put a light bulb to the switch when it's off, the bulb doesn't light. I put the light bulb to it when the switch is on, the bulb doesn't light. I take my multimeter and measure it...I get around 90VAC. Maybe 86VAC or something.

                So far, every outlet I've tested now is reading around 127VAC. I'm thinking it could be something with the meter. Except for that mystery light switch that reads 80~90 VAC.

                I'm slowly removing the free hanging wires. There's a bunch in the basement! Most of them don't run anywhere but there's one that looks like someone ran it from behind a wall upstairs, down to the basement and just never hooked it to the panel. It doesn't look like the end has been cut, ever. Not sure what that one is for.

                There was old wiring going into a junction box that had a light on it. I went down there, turned off all the breakers, opened the light switch up. The neutral wire broke off. I fixed that. There where these weird metal clamp things that were pinching the ground wires together. I removed that. The old wire, the only thing that it was connected to in the box was the bare metal ground wire. I put it all back together. I thought maybe the broken white wire was related to the hood upstairs. I found what breaker turned off that light, but it doesn't effect the hood.

                I still have more wires to remove. Short bits that just don't go anywhere. It's a mess, but it's slowly coming together. There's no 240V in this house. I gotta add that, but to do that, I need to upgrade the box. There's 100AMP main panel and it feeds a 60AMP sub panel. I'm going to upgrade to a 200 AMP but after we get more money.


                For the baby's bedroom, before I tie up the subfloor, I'm going to add a wall plate that has ethernet, coax and telephone. I'm going to run it into the basement and eventually, get one of those boxes by the electrical panel. One that has the cable modem, has a patch panel for ethernet, all the phone stuff, all the cable stuff, the spliters, etc. I'll do one room at a time. Baby's room first. I think for her room, I'll add two of those wall plates. One on opposites sides of the room. I should have done it before I laid down most of the plywood. I only got a 4" wide strip left to put down. But I think I can fish it through to the other side of the room.
                -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

                Comment


                  #48
                  Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

                  Originally posted by stj View Post
                  he's talking about the 2 phases that you combine for that 240v outlet.
                  Okay. In this house, I don't got any 240V yet. But I'm thinking when I put the new 200-AMP panel, instead of that 12-2 (or was it 10-2?) I'll use 12-3 (or 10-3). I didn't know enough about AC back then and should have went with it to begin with.
                  -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

                  Comment


                    #49
                    Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

                    Originally posted by keeney123 View Post
                    I said transformer because the voltage is step down from the usually 120 AC. 17Volt and voltages around that value are typical transformer voltages for like the door bell. Also, I believe some thermostat voltages are around this voltage. Other wise if it is directly connected to the 120 line you would have current flow on that line and some resistance would be eating up the other 103 volts.



                    When RJARRRPCGP talks about leg he is referring to the different voltages on the main panel. You have two bus bars each is considered a leg. So as one bar is going towards its positive peak voltage the other is going towards it's negative peak voltage. So the difference in RMS Voltage between them is 220V RMS or around that amount. Being that you connect breakers to these bars and they go out to outlets The voltage difference between two outlets that are connected to different bus bars or legs will be 220V RMS
                    Okay, I think I understand. I didn't think dirt on a wire could make it read low like that. I figured I'd get nothing at all or the full 120. Could the dirt have caused it to read 17VAC or so? Or is there a short somewheres and I need to find it? I've been removing old wires that aren't hooked anywheres. I've been pounding in nails, screwing stuff, using fish tape, etc. I could have somehow made a loose wire taught I guess.

                    You, BudM and the pirate guy, RJARRRPCGP, seem to know a lot about this AC stuff. Is there a way for me to test at the main breaker what's coming in? Could this house have 127VAC coming in instead of 120VAC? I'm worried about my fancy electronics getting ruined now. Either my meter needs work or this voltage isn't very stable.

                    Also, I'm pretty certain that sub panel isn't a good thing. The main panel is 100 amp. And then there's a double pole breaker that says 60 AMP feeding the 60 AMP sub panel. The 60 amp sub panel has 8 holes, all populated, with six 20 amp breakers and one double pole 20 amp breaker. So, that means 100 amp coming in and 60 goes to the sub-panel, the main bigger panel only gets 40 amp. Maybe that's causing issues?

                    It's a two story house with a basement and an attic and our old one story small house (the size of a trailer) had a 200-amp panel. Everything there was electric, but here, even with natural gas stove, water heater, furnace, and dryer being natural gas, that just seems like the panels aren't big enough.
                    -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

                    Comment


                      #50
                      Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

                      Well, it sounds like you need to get good working meter to start with otherwise you are doing goose chase with the wrong data.
                      What do you mean you do not have 240VAC yet? I never seen the house that the Electric company does not provide split-phase power to the house.
                      Amperage of the panel has nothing to do with getting the split-phase power to the house or not.
                      Show us what you have in your breaker panel.

                      http://www.generatorsforhomeuse.us/electrical-wiring/
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by budm; 10-03-2016, 09:41 PM.
                      Never stop learning
                      Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                      Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                      Inverter testing using old CFL:
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                      Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                      http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                      TV Factory reset codes listing:
                      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                      Comment


                        #51
                        Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

                        So your saying you only one 120 RMS power line coming into your home?

                        Comment


                          #52
                          Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

                          Originally posted by budm View Post
                          Well, it sounds like you need to get good working meter to start with otherwise you are doing goose chase with the wrong data.
                          What do you mean you do not have 240VAC yet?...
                          I meant I do not have any 240VAC outlets yet. My old house, we had a 240V outlet for the stove, a 240V outlet for the dryer, and a 240V outlet for my rework station, that I wired myself. I just meant all the outlets in this house are 120VAC outlets.

                          I'll try new batteries for the meter. Is there any good ways of testing the meter? Testing with DC shouldn't be a problem. I can just set my calibrated PSU to a voltage and test to see if the meter measures it accurately.

                          It's a Craftsman Professional 82357. There's a sicker on the back that says:
                          82357
                          242.82357.0
                          Sears, Roebuck and Co.

                          It's a true RMS meter. A long time ago, I found a digital copy of the manual on Sears' parts webpage, but I don't think it exists anymore. It'd suck if this meter needed replacing. We've fixed sooooo much stuff over the years. My parents bought it for me as a gift when I was child, hoping I'd get into electronics and everything.
                          -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

                          Comment


                            #53
                            Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

                            Originally posted by keeney123 View Post
                            So your saying you only one 120 RMS power line coming into your home?
                            No, I should had been more clear. I meant all the outlet's are just 120VAC. I thought Stj was referring to the 240V outlet that I installed in the old house for my BGA rework station. You guys helped me wire it up. Sorry for the confusion.
                            -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

                            Comment


                              #54
                              Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

                              Go to your neighbor house and take the AC reading of their outlets to see what you get on your meter.
                              Never stop learning
                              Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                              Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                              Inverter testing using old CFL:
                              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                              Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                              http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                              TV Factory reset codes listing:
                              http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                              Comment


                                #55
                                Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

                                Originally posted by budm View Post
                                Well, it sounds like you need to get good working meter to start with otherwise you are doing goose chase with the wrong data.
                                What do you mean you do not have 240VAC yet? I never seen the house that the Electric company does not provide split-phase power to the house.
                                Amperage of the panel has nothing to do with getting the split-phase power to the house or not.
                                Show us what you have in your breaker panel.

                                http://www.generatorsforhomeuse.us/electrical-wiring/
                                When I wake up tomorrow, I'll pull the cover off and take some pictures. Tomorrow is my wife's due date for the baby but we're not sure she's going to come tomorrow or not. I'm going to head to bed now so I can get up early, just in case.

                                I know amperage of the panel has nothing to do with getting the split-phase power to the house. I thought though maybe the setup isn't correct. One 100 amp panel that supplies a 60-amp smaller sub-panel....I thought perhaps the people who installed it didn't know what they were doing and maybe that's why we're getting some weird readings and have some unhooked wires in the basement, etc.

                                They said "updated" wiring. It was knob and tube, they replaced it. From what we can see (under the baby's subfloor, in the attic, the basement), it does appear to be removed (the knob and tube). There's some wires still there, they're just not hooked up anymore. I've questioned some of the previous owner's...repairs.

                                Some of their repairs were dangerous and could have killed us. Not sure how the house inspector missed some of that stuff. At one point, someone worked on the house and knew what they were doing. Then, at another time, someone worked on the house and didn't know what they were doing. Somethings are done proper, some things aren't done right at all.
                                -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

                                Comment


                                  #56
                                  Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

                                  Originally posted by budm View Post
                                  Go to your neighbor house and take the AC reading of their outlets to see what you get on your meter.
                                  Okay. But don't try reading the voltage coming into the house directly from the breaker box? I thought I could do something like this:

                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGySBSRSflY

                                  I thought maybe but the meter across those big main wires coming in as well. Is that a bad idea?
                                  -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

                                  Comment


                                    #57
                                    Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

                                    Just measure at the outlets, less chance of getting kill.
                                    Never stop learning
                                    Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                                    Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                                    Inverter testing using old CFL:
                                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                                    Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                                    http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                                    TV Factory reset codes listing:
                                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                                    Comment


                                      #58
                                      Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

                                      Originally posted by Spork Schivago View Post
                                      No, I should had been more clear. I meant all the outlet's are just 120VAC. I thought Stj was referring to the 240V outlet that I installed in the old house for my BGA rework station. You guys helped me wire it up. Sorry for the confusion.


                                      Calibration of a meter has to be done on each range in increments from a low setting, middle setting and high setting in each range and make sure the readings are with-in tolerance. This is usually done with a calibrated programmable supply that cost $60,000 in 1987. It would have a sticker on the calibrated supply that is traceable to The National Bureau of Standards. This sticker has to be replaced every year.

                                      Comment


                                        #59
                                        Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

                                        Originally posted by keeney123 View Post
                                        Calibration of a meter has to be done on each range in increments from a low setting, middle setting and high setting in each range and make sure the readings are with-in tolerance. This is usually done with a calibrated programmable supply that cost $60,000 in 1987. It would have a sticker on the calibrated supply that is traceable to The National Bureau of Standards. This sticker has to be replaced every year.
                                        I have a calibrated DC PSU with one of those traceable certificates. Now, you can get stuff calibrated without a traceable certificate but a lot of times, they're required, depending on where you work and what you do. My certificate has probably expired but the stuff I'm doing, I'm not gonna worry about it (the PSU I mean, not the meter).

                                        So, it's possible for the DC measuring parts of the multimeter circuit to be calibrated but the AC parts to be out of calibration? I gotta get some sleep though, I'll be back tomorrow. Night.
                                        -- Law of Expanding Memory: Applications Will Also Expand Until RAM Is Full

                                        Comment


                                          #60
                                          Re: Are LED light bulbs supposed to get hot?

                                          All you have to do with 120 V outlets, for testing, is to check outlets for different voltages. Are you able to find an outlet that has a much lower voltage when a heavy appliance is going?

                                          For example, on one outlet, you got a reading of 131 V and 111 V on another outlet.
                                          ASRock B550 PG Velocita

                                          Ryzen 9 "Vermeer" 5900X

                                          16 GB AData XPG Spectrix D41

                                          Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 6750 XT

                                          eVGA Supernova G3 750W

                                          Western Digital Black SN850 1TB NVMe SSD

                                          Alienware AW3423DWF OLED




                                          "¡Me encanta "Me Encanta o Enlistarlo con Hilary Farr!" -Mí mismo

                                          "There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat

                                          "Today's lesson in pissivity comes in the form of a ziplock baggie full of GPU extension brackets & hardware that for the last ~3 years have been on my bench, always in my way, getting moved around constantly....and yesterday I found myself in need of them....and the bastards are now nowhere to be found! Motherfracker!!" -Topcat

                                          "did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747

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