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Dell Vostro 3550 (v A01 with BQ24707) Plugged in, Not Charging

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    Dell Vostro 3550 (v A01 with BQ24707) Plugged in, Not Charging

    Hello,


    i have similar problem as https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37828
    QUOTED
    -It works on charger (without battery connected-only charger)
    -It works on battery (without charger connected-only battery)
    -& it also works when plugged in battery & charger, but it's not charging the battery

    //Confirming, i have same issue, but problem started from charger, centre PIN is outputing 10V+ and jumping randomly 19V


    and..


    QUOTE
    The IC cannot maintain the input current level if the charge current has been already reduced to zero. After the
    system current continues increasing to the 1.66X of input current DAC set point (with 2.5ms blank out time),
    IFAULT is pulled to low and the charge is disabled for 1.3s and will soft start again for charge if ACOC condition
    goes away. If such failure is detected seven times in 90 seconds, charge will be latched off and an adapter
    removal and system shut down (make ACDET < 0.6V to reset IC) is required to start charge again. After 90
    seconds, the failure counter will be reset to zero to prevent latch off.

    Think the IC is dead / shorted...Or some cap around shorted...
    It's a hardcore case without schematics...


    // Measured and only PIN12 and PIN13 (CAP, RES acting like shorted).. measured further.. merged lines under R010 (PR4916)?

    QUOTE
    The question is, which one of those 2 different voltages is right?
    Because 1st indicates that charger is not detected & second that it's on protect mode...


    // Author posted PU4001 (BQ24707A) pinouts in wrong order. It should be 1 to 20, but he posted first one 20 to 1 measurements under reverse pin order.



    As i understand most common schematic is 10245-1 and thats revision A00

    10245-1 - 10260-1 INTEL A00 Charging IC PQ4001 BQ24745 28PIN HPB
    10245-2 - 10260-2 INTEL A01 Charging IC PQ4001 BQ24707A 20PIN (5pin GND in centre) Dell Inspiron 14R 5420 use BQ2407A
    10245-3 - 10260-3 AMD? A00 Charging IC known as QUEEN M12
    etc...


    Dell Vostro 3550
    CN OYORGW 70166
    1AB-OMRN-A01

    10245-2
    48.4IE01.021
    DQ15 Intel MB
    Made in China


    Story untill today:
    Long long time ago.. around 6+years ago, this device got covered coffee and device had "insurance", motherboard got replaced, nobody tested charger... device worked fine untill randomly one day anomalies started...
    Laptop/Notebook (however we call that machine/device) is (actually was) working fine. One day i noticed [Battery 0] start giving Not charging errors. So.. based on math, the battery was 6+years old and mainly device was used as "desktop PC" charger always connected. And the day when i needed device in other places with powered ON, i removed charger and it died immediately (Battery was empty).
    Based on information i assumed, battery is old and need replace, so i did. I ordered [BATTERY 1] Green CELL (pro) J1KND battery (7800mAh/86Wh - BatteryMon measured based on charging, its 9000mAh+ and 100Wh+ and designed data is 9600mAh/106Wh), connected it to device and it start charging.. 40% somthing untill 87.7% (im using BatteryBar v3.6.6 and BatteryMon v2.1 B1010).
    And then chargin stopped - i didnt know that (i checked log file and noticed that later).
    Based on chargin indicator LED i assumed, battery is full and...
    So, to get best knowlege how well that battery is performing i started FULL scale battery test (CPU 100%, GPU 100% and no AC connected).
    3h30minutes later i got "Battery is below 10%, connect AC" message and test stoped. - bit later when battery "calibrate and reconsentrate" it showed 6.2% discharge left!
    I connected charger and ... nothing.. no charging (Message: Battery plugged in, not charging).
    So i did "12+ DIY FIX" first 11 points and then bought another battery [BATTERY 2] and started all over again for testing, why its not charging.


    BATTERY 0. DELL OEM.. yeah its dead, output is 2.85V (same as charging voltage)
    BATTERY 1. GreenCell PRO N4010
    BATTERY 2. DELL "original" im not sure is it OEM.

    12+ "DIY FIX"
    1.Turned off device at night and hoped it start charging.. and in morning. Nothing!
    2. Drained notebook "NO AC - NO Battery, NO RTC1, Powerbutton down 30sec+..
    i did that 10+ times.. after every boot-up ad driver uninstall mix.
    3. https://www.speedguide.net/faq/lapto...ng-windows-380 Uninstalled Battery drivers, rebooted; 1. On battery power - no AC, 2.
    On AC power - no battery 3. ON AC and BATTERY power. All 3 times i
    uninstalled battery driver, did restart, connect one or another, checked
    updates, driver got installed, restarted again and moved to next option.
    4. Updated all windows updates.
    5. Tested new installation on windows 7, windows 10, ubuntu etc..
    6. Booted up on USB
    7. Updated BIOS to latest A12 from A11
    8. Replaced Charger (ALL 65W, 130W, 240W is detected in BIOS, im using 240W, even china car charger is detected as 90W).
    9. Opened notebook, made visual check, used multimeter, measured mosfets,
    capacitors, resistors.. 3.3V, 5V and even 19V was present in gate, sourse
    and drain (except some of them, but no short, so i assume those are ok!?)
    10. Replaced CR2032 (RTC1) battery
    11. Replaced BATTERY 1 to BATTERY 2
    12. I cried
    13. I drink
    Seems like im doing something wrong or in wrong order!?
    14. Seek help!

    And now im out of ideas, where to look (btw i dont have dell vostro 3550
    schematic, universal N4010,5100 etc schematic is guide, but does not help much. I dont know what values i have to measure or not. And Also, my dell revision is A01, there is replaced charging IC for more compact one..

    Im not expert, so i have multimeter (3 different) soldering irons (5 total), hotgun, other basic tools (tweezers etc..), but no
    oscilloscope, fancy magnified camera, flir camera.. etc...
    And also, im not good in electronics, i like to learn, but if i dont understand, then its not learning why and how its doing, hatever it should do, but if you only learn to replace parts, then its not learning to fix it, but learning to fix that problem.
    Im out of ideas what and where to look. Point me, if i missed something. For just to throw parts on it, is not viable solution. i really want to understand what it should do and how its working.

    In short:
    Device is working fine! - but its not charging anymore!
    Chargers are detected (all 4)
    Batterys are detected (all 3: BATTERY 0 is 2.85V, BATTERY 1 is 10.5V, BATTERY 2 is 11.54V and if needed, i can charge them to 12V.. direct charging without balancer.)
    Device is running on battery, but not charging it.(not in BIOS, not in device turned OFF, not in OS).



    ALL MEASURED Voltages in 4 Groups:
    XLSX (Excel file), in some reason PDF shows blank page... but if needed, i cand make "screenshot images"
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...f=true&sd=true

    IS ACOK reversed? (so, its should be 0? or 3.33V?)
    Based on BQ24707 diagram it can be both
    Where that ACOK come? From chip?

    I have done so many research, looked so many schematics and i found:
    Acer Aspire V5-531 (v5 571) is based on BQ24707x
    Lenovo B590-LB59A is also BQ24707x
    and the "brotherland" DELL Inspiron 14 N4050 is also BQ24707x
    NOTE: If those schematics are needed, then let me know!


    My plan is to use "dead" motherboard parts.. (soldered CPU and microcracks on those, recycled boards.. etc...) i dont have new or other BQ24707 IC, but i have lots of BQ24735, can i use that? or i should not and use only BQ24707?

    OR IC is alive, but i miss something?

    BEST REGARD, Thomas

    #2
    Re: Dell Vostro 3550 (v A01 with BQ24707) Plugged in, Not Charging

    See attached.

    Is your board layout similar ?

    1) Meter in DC volts mode (20v scale is ok).

    2) Measure the voltage of each pin on the battery connector and post the readings here for a review. Red meter lead on pin #1 of the battery connector; black meter lead to ground. Record the voltage.

    Continue to test pin #2, etc. on the battery connector.

    3) Take close but clear pix of the battery and charger area so we can have a closer look at the design.

    Is component PD3902 a 3 legged part (2 on one side; 1 on other) ? (SOT23)

    This may be the dual ESD diode used to protect the SMBUS / I2C communication lines by the logic board host (bus master) and the BMS (battery management system) controller onboard your battery pack(s).

    Interested to know the voltage on the side with the 2 legs as follows:

    red meter lead on one leg (of the side with the 2 legs) & black meter lead to ground (shield is ok). What is the voltage reading ?

    Repeat but now apply red meter lead on the other leg (of the side with the 2 legs) & black meter lead to ground.

    If correct, this is an ESD protection diode that is camped on the communication lines. Often, this diode will get nuked and causes the communication to fail between the parties and the battery is then not detected. The stats on the battery are extracted using these 2 pins on the battery connector = SDA & SCL lines.
    Attached Files

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Dell Vostro 3550 (v A01 with BQ24707) Plugged in, Not Charging

      And like always check if the first mosfet is not shorted between drain and source.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Dell Vostro 3550 (v A01 with BQ24707) Plugged in, Not Charging

        Originally posted by mon2 View Post
        See attached.


        2) Measure the voltage of each pin on the battery connector and post the readings here for a review. Red meter lead on pin #1 of the battery connector; black meter lead to ground. Record the voltage.

        Continue to test pin #2, etc. on the battery connector.
        BATT1 Connector (CPU, RAM side up as on attachment)
        img
        Readigs left to right:
        +
        1. 2.76V
        2. 2.77V
        3. 3.35V
        4. 3.35V
        5. 3.32V
        6. 0V
        7. 0V
        8. 0V
        9. 0V
        -


        3) Take close but clear pix of the battery and charger area so we can have a closer look at the design.
        Attachments:
        IMG_20220630_083955.jpg (1.27 MB)
        IMG_20220630_084001.jpg (1.37 MB)
        IMG_20220630_084016.jpg (1.12 MB)
        IMG_20220630_084019.jpg (1.39 MB)
        IMG_20220630_084225.jpg (1.74 MB)
        DELL VOSTRO 3550 Measurements.xlsx (18.9 KB)


        Is component PD3902 a 3 legged part (2 on one side; 1 on other) ? (SOT23)
        On my board, its not populated, and it is 2 LEGGE part: but readings is: 2.76V ^ 0V

        This may be the dual ESD diode used to protect the SMBUS / I2C communication lines by the logic board host (bus master) and the BMS (battery management system) controller onboard your battery pack(s).

        Interested to know the voltage on the side with the 2 legs as follows:

        red meter lead on one leg (of the side with the 2 legs) & black meter lead to ground (shield is ok). What is the voltage reading ?

        Repeat but now apply red meter lead on the other leg (of the side with the 2 legs) & black meter lead to ground.
        Black on GND - Red on PD3902 (left side): 2.77V
        Black on GND - Red on PD3902 (right side): 0.00V

        If correct, this is an ESD protection diode that is camped on the communication lines. Often, this diode will get nuked and causes the communication to fail between the parties and the battery is then not detected. The stats on the battery are extracted using these 2 pins on the battery connector = SDA & SCL lines.
        If this is true, then device cant read battery voltage and report it?
        Attached Files

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Dell Vostro 3550 (v A01 with BQ24707) Plugged in, Not Charging

          Originally posted by Stevedb View Post
          And like always check if the first mosfet is not shorted between drain and source.
          AC first mosfet? WITH AC CONNECTED
          PU3801 on my measure unit it is shorted in both ways (CRT BOARD)
          PU4002 on my measure unit it is shorted in both ways (Motherboard)
          If i remove charger, no short on any mosfet (PU series)

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Dell Vostro 3550 (v A01 with BQ24707) Plugged in, Not Charging

            Resistance is always measured without any power connected.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Dell Vostro 3550 (v A01 with BQ24707) Plugged in, Not Charging

              Hello again, long month attacked and i had to build new house attachment... PU4001 aka BQ24707 is replaced.. condition changed. Device indicate with LED as it charging, device is turning on with battery and keeps running without it, but for extra i lost SDA SCL data, now its not showing any info how many mah is in battery, only percentage left..
              The time i was writing that, i lost charging again, led turned off and now device is not turning on without battery.. it worked fine first minute or five, there is odd problem... I think i lost BQ24707 again, and maby something extra.
              Unbelievable device.. i waited soo long that bq707.. i have 1 for spare, but if its burning, then im doomed

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Dell Vostro 3550 (v A01 with BQ24707) Plugged in, Not Charging

                Black on GND - Red on PD3902 (left side): 2.77V
                Black on GND - Red on PD3902 (right side): 0.00V
                PD3902-With flux and low air pressure, remove this part.

                Do not lose the part so we can place it back after testing.

                Power up without this part.

                Post your results.

                This may be the ESD protection dual diode for the smbus communication lines used for the battery pack. For this reason, both lines should ~3v to ground else this part is damaged and can halt proper communication with the battery.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Dell Vostro 3550 (v A01 with BQ24707) Plugged in, Not Charging

                  Originally posted by mon2 View Post
                  PD3902-With flux and low air pressure, remove this part.

                  Do not lose the part so we can place it back after testing.

                  Power up without this part.

                  Post your results.

                  This may be the ESD protection dual diode for the smbus communication lines used for the battery pack. For this reason, both lines should ~3v to ground else this part is damaged and can halt proper communication with the battery.
                  This board does not have PD3902

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Dell Vostro 3550 (v A01 with BQ24707) Plugged in, Not Charging

                    Remove all power. Meter in resistance mode.

                    One meter probe on the same test pad with the missing PD3902 dual esd diode. Other meter probe to ground.

                    What is the resistance?

                    Next, repeat the same test with the other pad on PD3902 site and the ground on the logic board. Finally, the last pad of PD3902 will be the ground pin so resistance should be ~0 ohms to ground. Confirm this as well.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Dell Vostro 3550 (v A01 with BQ24707) Plugged in, Not Charging

                      Is PD3902 the part near the battery connector and is with only 2 pads??

                      That is not the esd diode part if the same as the 2nd posted pic above.

                      Can you link the schematics for this logic board?

                      Update..is it the Queen schematic from post #1?

                      Then have it now.

                      Do you have the following parts on your logic board?

                      D3901
                      D3903

                      If yes, post their pic so we can confirm.
                      Last edited by mon2; 07-24-2022, 03:27 AM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Dell Vostro 3550 (v A01 with BQ24707) Plugged in, Not Charging

                        See attached.

                        D3901 = SCL ESD diode. Remove it and test again.

                        D3903 = SDA ESD diode. Remove this also, if required to restore SMBUS / I2C voltages on the battery connector.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

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