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Suspect Bad PS Apple AcBel API 1PC36

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    Re: Suspect Bad PS Apple AcBel API 1PC36

    CORRECTION: C7 Capacitor noted on the above MAP.jpg shows incorrect info. Should read : C7 - 220 uF /35V

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      Re: Suspect Bad PS Apple AcBel API 1PC36

      While you're at it, would you change the Yellow dots to something that contrasts better? Orange, purple, polka-dot...
      veritas odium parit

      Comment


        Re: Suspect Bad PS Apple AcBel API 1PC36

        Purple it is.
        Attached Files

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          Re: Suspect Bad PS Apple AcBel API 1PC36

          veritas odium parit

          Comment


            Re: Suspect Bad PS Apple AcBel API 1PC36

            Thanks to folks on this forum (Toasty especially) for everything on this and related threads which enabled me to repair the ACI1PC32 unit in my G4 MDD. This is my experience for the record…

            Initial symptoms: power light flashed but no boot. On removing the PSU, I measured good standby voltages but no 3.3/5/12 on grounding power-on. The fans twitched but that was all. I pulled the guts out and could measure good B+ (370v). There was no evidence of bulging caps or other distress.

            First, I replaced 10 of the 12 shotgun caps using this fine list (https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...&postcount=112) from Digikey. I was able test and eliminate C7 in circuit and C8 by removal. None of the others was bad but a couple were leaky. I used this excellent ESR meter: https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...004-ND/9687220 Sadly, this didn't do the trick, so I ordered the 7 of the 10 “other” caps (the big guys C5/C4/C37 tested healthy in-circuit and certainly seemed to work well).

            From various discussions, it seemed like C45, C32 and C30 might be the next suspects. So I pulled and tested those. C45 and C32 had a high ESR but they weren't completely fried .. and C30 was too small to check. I replaced these, retested and .. praise be! .. all outputs fired up. So I applied new silicone caulk, partially re-assembled and re-tested. Nothing. Back to standby only. Rats.

            At this point, I could only guess that other caps were marginal. So I pulled C53/C55/C56/C57. I could only test the 4.7uF guys and they both checked good. But replacing all of them indeed got it working properly. So I can only conclude that one or both of the small 0.47uF caps were the culprit.

            Note that the best way to deal with the original adhesive caulk for me was to cut between caps with a modeling knife so that each cap could be easily desoldered individually.

            Also: after a test, to safely discharge and measure the high voltage on the primary caps, I'd hook a multimeter between B+ and R4, the PFC current sensing resistor, and used a 10K+ resistor to bleed between meter terminals. Otherwise, it would take at least 20 minutes to discharge adequately. This was after It'd been tickled once!

            Comment


              Re: Suspect Bad PS Apple AcBel API 1PC36

              Hi there. I have a Power Mac G4 with an Acbel APi1PC36 PSU. The fault symptoms sound similar to those reported here - pressing the power on button produces a twitch on the fans and a red LED (D518) on the motherboard flashes once then nothing else happens. I have removed the PSU and, using a 22R resistor to bridge pin 6 (3.3v sense) to ground and a jumper between pin 11 (green) and ground, it starts and runs delivering the expected voltages at the other pins. I have since replaced the following caps: C8, C7, C10, C16, C13, C21, C29, C59, C60, C35, C41, C57. I have an analog Ohm meter to test leakage and all of the removals seem to charge up and hold charge as expected. Only C60 was slightly domed at the top but still seemed to be OK. Obviously, I have left all of the new replacements in and the PSU still works on the bench, but not when connected to the Mac. Is there any point in my replacing any more caps, or should I be looking for a motherboard fault, in which case some help and advice is sorely needed!
              P.S. I have just attempted another re-start and the Mac powered up with a start-up tone, ran for maybe 5 seconds, then powered off.
              P.P.S. It now seems to keep running...... Advice please - change the rest of the electrolytics or no?
              Last edited by useanavo; 09-27-2020, 07:21 AM.

              Comment


                Re: Suspect Bad PS Apple AcBel API 1PC36

                I'd replace all "shotgun" and "other" caps before looking elsewhere.

                Comment


                  Re: Suspect Bad PS Apple AcBel API 1PC36

                  This is someone from the future... *ahem* Many thanks to all of you in this discussion.

                  I managed to fix my AcBel by replacing the bulging big ones (2x2200uF, 1x1000uF) and the small ones (C30 C32 C45, but not sure which one was the cause). Before it was fixed. it was turning on and off instantly and standing by with 25V and 5V.

                  I did notice that even they went to town with the glue, some parts managed to lift the traces and became loose. I had to put more solder on them so they could bridge to something next to them to stay in place.

                  Comment


                    Re: Suspect Bad PS Apple AcBel API 1PC36

                    Lifting board traces is either to much heat or staying one the trace to long with to much heat
                    or not enough heat and you are having to stay to long on the trace

                    One solution is add fresh solder to the joint with the right amount of heat

                    To determine if you are using enough heat is to the iron on the joint and as long it is not a double sided board with large ground planes you should be able to melt the the soldering joint in less than 3 second if not increase the heat setting

                    Now with my soldering station I set it for 675*F but I get on a soldering joint and once the parts pin is loose either suck the solder off the joint or move the pin out of the hole

                    Now I also have a Desoldering Station I set it for 775*F so it quick to melt the solder and suck it out of the joint hole then take the tip off the board as soon as possible to keep from burning the board now on double sided board or ground planes you have to leave it a little bit longer for the solder to melt

                    I hope this helps you
                    Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 11-21-2020, 11:48 AM.
                    9 PC LCD Monitor
                    6 LCD Flat Screen TV
                    30 Desk Top Switching Power Supply
                    10 Battery Charger Switching Power Supply for Power Tool
                    6 18v Lithium Battery Power Boards for Tool Battery Packs
                    1 XBox 360 Switching Power Supply and M Board
                    25 Servo Drives 220/460 3 Phase
                    6 De-soldering Station Switching Power Supply 1 Power Supply
                    1 Dell Mother Board
                    15 Computer Power Supply
                    1 HP Printer Supply & Control Board * lighting finished it *


                    These two repairs where found with a ESR meter...> Temp at 50*F then at 90*F the ESR reading more than 10%

                    1 Over Head Crane Current Sensing Board ( VFD Failure Five Years Later )
                    2 Hem Saw Computer Stack Board

                    All of these had CAPs POOF
                    All of the mosfet that are taken out by bad caps

                    Comment


                      Re: Suspect Bad PS Apple AcBel API 1PC36

                      Thanks for all the soldering tips. I know how to solder pretty well. What I meant was the parts started lifting traces from the board on their own from the other side. That surprised me since they went nuts with the white stuff, everywhere, all over.

                      Comment


                        Re: Suspect Bad PS Apple AcBel API 1PC36

                        What a crap-e board
                        9 PC LCD Monitor
                        6 LCD Flat Screen TV
                        30 Desk Top Switching Power Supply
                        10 Battery Charger Switching Power Supply for Power Tool
                        6 18v Lithium Battery Power Boards for Tool Battery Packs
                        1 XBox 360 Switching Power Supply and M Board
                        25 Servo Drives 220/460 3 Phase
                        6 De-soldering Station Switching Power Supply 1 Power Supply
                        1 Dell Mother Board
                        15 Computer Power Supply
                        1 HP Printer Supply & Control Board * lighting finished it *


                        These two repairs where found with a ESR meter...> Temp at 50*F then at 90*F the ESR reading more than 10%

                        1 Over Head Crane Current Sensing Board ( VFD Failure Five Years Later )
                        2 Hem Saw Computer Stack Board

                        All of these had CAPs POOF
                        All of the mosfet that are taken out by bad caps

                        Comment


                          Re: Suspect Bad PS Apple AcBel API 1PC36

                          I've got this same PSU. Initial symptoms were the same as described elsewhere in this thread. I replaced all the "shotgun" caps, and found three that were far out of spec. None were bulging particularly.

                          Since replaced, the PSU when jumpered on spins the fans briefly. I attempted to force the supply on by soldering a resistor to Pin2 of the M8 optocoupler, but this causes the fans to spin briefly and causes a rapid clicking noise from the supply.

                          Would anyone happen to have any diagnostic suggestions for fixing this supply? When not jumpered on, I get the expected voltages (25v white, 5v purple).

                          Comment


                            Re: Suspect Bad PS Apple AcBel API 1PC36

                            Originally posted by betaporter View Post
                            I've got this same PSU. Initial symptoms were the same as described elsewhere in this thread. I replaced all the "shotgun" caps, and found three that were far out of spec. None were bulging particularly.

                            Since replaced, the PSU when jumpered on spins the fans briefly. I attempted to force the supply on by soldering a resistor to Pin2 of the M8 optocoupler, but this causes the fans to spin briefly and causes a rapid clicking noise from the supply.

                            Would anyone happen to have any diagnostic suggestions for fixing this supply? When not jumpered on, I get the expected voltages (25v white, 5v purple).
                            If it makes you feel any better, I am getting similar issues. I've replaced all the secondary caps mentioned in the thread (C7,C8,C10,C13,C16,C21,C29,C35,C41,C43,C59,C60) and am getting a few clicks from what seems like maybe one of the transformers? before it shuts down. Standby voltages look fine. I'll be trying the resistor test this week and see if I can measure any other voltages.

                            Comment


                              Re: Suspect Bad PS Apple AcBel API 1PC36

                              Finally had some time to troubleshoot some more on this.

                              Bridged the M8 pin with ground and the PSU mostly turned on. The fan was spinning normally and something was clicking at a good clip (sounded like it was coming from one of the transformers maybe?).

                              I measured all the voltages and they were all just a bit short, 12v was closer to 10v, 5v was closer to 4v and 3.3v was about where it should be, the numbers were fluctuating a lot, so I'm guessing it was cycling on/off with the clicking.

                              Would this indicate one of the ICs?

                              Comment


                                Hi everyone! Does anyone know where a schematic for this AcBel API1PC36 power converter can be found?

                                I'm currently troubleshooting three of these for personally owned Macintosh Mirror Door Drive systems but have no new significant insights to contribute toward the most common specific electrolytic capacitor component failures at this time. But I'll add my results when they arise.

                                I replace any relatively low voltage low capacity electrolytic capacitors with tantalum capacitors which of course provide the great advantage of being solid state and not inherently life limited. I view this option as limited to about 100 µF at 16 V or equivalent capacitance times voltage product, and almost never available at high voltages such as above 50 V. But I eagerly parallel them to avoid electrolytics too - I view five 100 µF 16 V tantalum capacitors as far preferable to a single 470 µF 16 V electrolytic capacitor for 12 V power rails for example. For capacities and voltages outside the range of tantalum capacitors I highly prefer hermetically sealed electrolytic capacitors when available, because:

                                ----------------
                                Bruce: ChatGPT, polymer sealed electrolytic capacitors are life limited components which cause serious failure problems in long life electronics products. Are hermetically sealed, such as with glass or epoxy, electrolytic capacitors still available? If so about how much greater longevity to they generally provide, and very roughly what extra cost do they typically impose compared to similar polymer sealed capacitors?

                                ChatGPT: Yes, hermetically sealed electrolytic capacitors are still available in the market, particularly for applications where longevity and reliability are critical. These capacitors are sealed using glass or epoxy to create a hermetic seal that protects the internal components from environmental factors such as moisture and humidity. The hermetic seal ensures that the electrolyte inside the capacitor remains stable over time, reducing the risk of electrolyte drying out or leaking, which are common failure modes in traditional electrolytic capacitors.

                                The longevity of hermetically sealed electrolytic capacitors can be significantly greater compared to polymer-sealed capacitors, depending on factors such as operating conditions, voltage stress, and temperature. In general, hermetically sealed capacitors are designed to have a longer operational life, often ranging from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of hours, or even longer in some cases.

                                As for cost, hermetically sealed electrolytic capacitors tend to be more expensive than polymer-sealed capacitors due to the additional manufacturing processes involved in creating the hermetic seal and the use of high-quality materials. The exact cost difference can vary depending on factors such as capacitance, voltage rating, size, and manufacturer, but in general, you can expect hermetically sealed capacitors to be several times more expensive than polymer-sealed ones.

                                Despite the higher cost, hermetically sealed electrolytic capacitors are preferred in applications where reliability and longevity are paramount, such as aerospace, defense, medical devices, and industrial equipment, where the consequences of capacitor failure can be significant.
                                ----------------

                                In my view the considerable labor required to remove this power converter from the Macintosh MDD, plus the additional considerable labor required to replace capacitors well warrants upgrades to tantalum and hermetically sealed electrolytic capacitors. Otherwise we trap ourselves in an eternal rather short cycle time and effort intensive maintenance task. This particular power converter seems reliable except for capacitor failures, as does the Macintosh MDD. So for those who wish to preserve this computer tantalum and hermetically sealed electrolytic capacitor upgrades, where available, seem like a worthy investment.

                                (The RTC (real time clock) battery is a corrosion time bomb and the only other inherently life limited component. I replace them with super capacitors as described here.)

                                All just in my personal view of course... Cheers!

                                Comment


                                  I repaired one of my five MDD power converters, crudely but sufficiently, in the process developing the following approach which replaces many life limited electrolytic capacitors with unlimited life MLC (Multi Layer Ceramic) or tantalum capacitors, or longer life PAE (Polymer Aluminum Electrolytic) capacitors, and minimizes new component ordering complexity by substantially consolidating the range of values.

                                  The consolidation is practical because none of these capacitors appear to be utilized in frequency or timing related circuits but rather only filtering roles, where more capacitance is essentially always better (and where if capacitance degradation occurs the power converter will nonetheless remain functional for a longer time). I've yet to prove success in all consolidation cases, but many were successfully implemented in my first crude repair and I'll test the full array later.

                                  I couldn't find suitable hermetically sealed electrolytic capacitors so the PAE option seems to be the best practical alternative to ordinary aluminum electrolytic capacitors in these times.

                                  I purchased from the vendors linked. Values must be selected from the arrays provided on the linked pages.

                                  This completely ignores all values above 1 mF. I judge those as much less troublesome but of course they could be replaced too, such as from this vendor (the same as the 1 mF PAE vendor below), for a fully thorough capacitor upgrade.

                                  Everything below "Original Capacitors, 28 total:" is compliments "Toasty", FdB@MacOS9Lives.com, and perhaps others, with my very modest refinements, thanks tons all! To wit:


                                  --- Macintosh Mirror Door Drive Computer's API1PC36 REV:A Power Converter Capacitor Upgrades ---

                                  Replacement of 1 mF or lower values, 20 total of 10 values:

                                  [X] Indicates quantity of the particular value in the original power converter.
                                  Higher values seem functional in all tests thus far. Some cases not tested yet but dysfunctions seem unlikely.
                                  Ideally Tantalum or MLC, otherwise PAE.

                                  470 nF, 50 V: [4] Replace with 1 µF MLC.
                                  4.7 µF, 50 V: [2] Replace with 10 µF MLC.
                                  10 µF, 50 V: [4] MLC.
                                  47 µF, 25 V: [3] Replace with 100 µF tantalum.
                                  100 µF, 25 V: [1] Tantalum.
                                  220 µF, 35 V: [1] Replace with 1 mF 35 V PAE.
                                  470 µF, 16 V: [1] Replace with 1 mF 35 V PAE.
                                  470 µF, 35 V: [1] Replace with 1 mF 35 V PAE.
                                  680 µF, 35 V: [1] Replace with 1 mF 35 V PAE.
                                  1 mF, 10 V: [2] Replace with 1 mF 35 V PAE.


                                  Components and generous quantities ordered for upgrade of 5 power converters, consolidated to 4 values:

                                  1 µF, 50 V, MLC: 100
                                  10 µF, 50 V, MLC: 200
                                  100 µF, 25 V, Tantalum: 30
                                  1 mF, 10 V, PAE: 40

                                  No attempt to match lead spacing was made so lead bending is required in some or all cases. The last (1 mF) component is 1 x 1.7 cm and thus at least 2 mm larger in diameter than the original capacitors. I suspect sufficient space is available but have not confirmed this yet.


                                  Original Capacitors, 28 total:


                                  Fan Control:

                                  C401: 47 µF, 25 V
                                  C402: 470 nF, 50 V
                                  C403: 10 µF, 50 V
                                  C405: 10 µF, 50 V
                                  C407: 10 µF, 50 V
                                  C416: 470 µF, 016 V


                                  Generally Primary Adjacent:

                                  C4: 100 µF, 450 V
                                  C5: 100 µF, 450 V
                                  C30: 470 nF, 50 V
                                  C32: 47 µF, 25 V
                                  C37: 100 µF, 450 V
                                  C45: 10 µF, 50 V
                                  C53: 4.7 µF, 50 V
                                  C55: 470 nF, 50 V
                                  C56: 470 nF, 50 V
                                  C57: 4.7 µF, 50 V


                                  Generally Secondary:

                                  C7: 220 µF, 35 V
                                  C8: 47 µF, 25 V
                                  C10: 2.2 mF, 16 V
                                  C13: 2.7 mF, 6.3 V
                                  C16: 2.2 mF, 6.3 V
                                  C21: 3.3 mF, 10 V
                                  C29: 2.2 mF, 6.3 V
                                  C35: 470 µF, 35 V
                                  C41: 680 µF, 35 V
                                  C43: 100 µF, 25 V
                                  C59: 1 mF, 10 V
                                  C60: 1 mF, 10 V

                                  Cheers! End.

                                  Comment

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