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Old 02-25-2020, 08:51 AM   #1
myth77
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Default Ly ir8500 station good or?

Long on my mind is idea weather or not to buy BGA station...The thing is i repair mostly laptop and some desktop motherboard as a hobby...I never worked on big chips with bga station..all i use is a heat gun and soldering iron..so if i find that maybe some smaller chip or mosfet or capacitor is fallen i try to fix it/replace it...but if i found it is gpu, cpu...i dont because obveusly i dont have that equipment.
So, in short now i have this opportunity to buy bga station from the title for really good price...
What bothers me is this station good for the starter? i know it is infrared station..and i read somewhere that problem is with these IR stations that they can easily fried new chips and even motherboards...and while searching on the internet i didnt find many videos of this station in action... Any recomendations? Anyone use it? ideas?

Thank you!

Last edited by myth77; 02-25-2020 at 09:10 AM..
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Old 02-25-2020, 09:52 PM   #2
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

If it's just for hobby work... just get a gas burner instead and add Triac control to the fan on that heatgun. Those two with some practice will probably let you remove just about any BGA chip. A fellow Romanian member here even built his own BGA station with nothing more than a toaster for the bottom heater - and it worked brilliantly well.
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Old 02-26-2020, 03:56 AM   #3
myth77
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

hahaha i understand what you are saying..but i can get this station for a really good price...i believe it will not be a problem to sell it for the same price after...
Only thing i am asking is it good for the work? or i will just lose my nerve and destroy several ic chips because IR stations are not that good ! ?
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:51 AM   #4
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

It would depend how well the temperature sensor controller works and where the temperature sensor is located how fast it respond to temperature change
__________________
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These two repairs where found with a ESR meter...> Temp at 50*F then at 90*F the ESR reading more than 10%

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All of the mosfet that are taken out by bad caps

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Old 02-26-2020, 04:56 AM   #5
diif
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

I have an IR station. No problems here using it, you won't get the control that the newer 3 zone hot air stations have.
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Old 02-26-2020, 01:12 PM   #6
dicky96
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

Quote:
Originally Posted by myth77 View Post
hahaha i understand what you are saying..but i can get this station for a really good price...i believe it will not be a problem to sell it for the same price after...
Only thing i am asking is it good for the work? or i will just lose my nerve and destroy several ic chips because IR stations are not that good ! ?
I bought the LY G720 in November, which is 3 zone hot air semi-auto..... and I am still destroying more stuff than diif is with his IR station

I can say I am impressed with the build quality of the LY BGA stations if mine is anything to go by. I would say if you can get a good price and if you can afford it then why not buy it? As you already said the resale value would get your money back if you decide not to keep it.

Just be sure to have plenty of scrap boards to play with

Last edited by dicky96; 02-26-2020 at 01:13 PM..
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Old 02-26-2020, 10:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

Quote:
Originally Posted by myth77 View Post
or i will just lose my nerve and destroy several ic chips because IR stations are not that good ! ?
I learned BGA on an IR station, and if anything, it's easier to use.

Both hot air and IR will take some practice and getting used to, but here are the main differences:

Unlike hot air, the nice thing about IR is that your thermocouples will show exactly the temperature of the board to where you put them. With hot air, not so much, because the air nozzle temperature always has to be higher than the temperature you are actually trying to heat the board (that's because air doesn't transfer all of its heat to the board when it exits from the nozzle.) This is one of the things that makes IR much easier to use.

However, the one thing that can make IR a little tricky is the fact that it may not have even heating. This can come from several things. One of them is, of course, the copper tracks layout of the board - and this actually will affect both IR and hot air stations. But the other item is that IR heating depends heavily on the surface you are heating. For example, a black non-glossy surface placed flat under the IR heater will absorb heat a lot more than a glossy light-colored or mirror-like surface. And on top of that, the quality of the IR heating element can also contribute to the uneven heating (so if you get an IR station, you may want to upgrade to better quality IR heaters.) Combine all of these, and you can get very uneven heating. Fortunately, this is nothing you can't go around with a few rounds of practice on some dead/for parts boards.

Like I mentioned, I learned on IR, and I think it's overall easier to learn on and work with. But once you master that, you'll probably find over time that hot air provides more consistent results and generally easier to get better quality control of your rework.

So my final thoughts: yes, if you can get an IR station for a very good price, then go for it.

Last edited by momaka; 02-26-2020 at 10:38 PM..
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Old 02-27-2020, 05:41 AM   #8
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

....And be prepared to break a lot of stuff learning how to use it

Practice
Practice
Practice
...
...

But you will get a great buzz when you start to do it right
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:50 AM   #9
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post
And on top of that, the quality of the IR heating element can also contribute to the uneven heating (so if you get an IR station, you may want to upgrade to better quality IR heaters.)
Where do you find good quality IR heaters
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:53 AM   #10
sam_sam_sam
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dicky96 View Post
....And be prepared to break a lot of stuff learning how to use it

Practice
Practice
Practice
...
...

But you will get a great buzz when you start to do it right
This is true about most things that you want to learn about that you have never done before
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Old 02-27-2020, 11:50 AM   #11
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sam_sam View Post
Where do you find good quality IR heaters
Elstein.
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Old 02-29-2020, 05:00 PM   #12
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

Quote:
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Elstein.
That's what I've been hearing all these years too. Are they really legit German IR heating elements? And that good? Or is it just a name someone invented for some "above-average" Chinese IR elements?
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Old 02-29-2020, 06:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

Quote:
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That's what I've been hearing all these years too. Are they really legit German IR heating elements? And that good? Or is it just a name someone invented for some "above-average" Chinese IR elements?
They are a legit German company http://www.elstein.com/en/
I fitted one of their 400W top elements before turning on my machine so can't comment on how much better it is than the generic Chinese ones however I didn't find any clones on Ali back when I bought it or since that look the same so I'm fairly confident they are proper and I'm still getting consistent results which is the main thing.
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Old 11-15-2021, 03:03 AM   #14
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

Hi,
I am working on customised t-862 low cost station. My goal is made proffesional station from this low cost. My design is inspired by ir8500. It have my own controller with STM32 ARM uP and I am looking what features to implement. I am using thermistors instead of thermocouplers in combination with 14bit ADC for accurate temp. measurement. Possible to connect 6 thermistors and one thermocouple for solder iron. I am waiting for bigger bottom ceramic ir heater at the moment.

New controller have possibility:
- connect up to 7 temperature sensors (6 thermistors , 1 thermocouple)
- 3 OLED displays
- average function between sensors
- mapping sensors to heat element via menu settings
- builder for temperature profile via menu settings
- stored 3 profiles up to 20 samples (time,temperature) for each heat element, calculated connections between samples
- graphic visualisation of the temperature profile
- sound notifications
- upgradable firmware via USB cable
- compatible with original T-862 case
- compatible with original IR lamp, ceramic heater or hot air head
- 32Bit ARM uP

Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Oo9qvRA62w
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Old 11-18-2021, 11:30 AM   #15
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

Quote:
Originally Posted by explorer232 View Post
Hi,
I am working on customised t-862 low cost station.
Impressive! And that is low cost, around 200USD for a bga station.

What are you planning on for your MCU, some are a bit hard to get at the moment.
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Old 11-30-2021, 09:40 AM   #16
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

Quote:
Originally Posted by clearchris View Post
Impressive! And that is low cost, around 200USD for a bga station.

What are you planning on for your MCU, some are a bit hard to get at the moment.
It was made mainly for my personal usage but I have some uP. At the moment there is problem with more components (for example elstein top ir heater). Original head from LY have unevenly heated plate, waiting for elstein one.
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Old 01-24-2022, 07:07 AM   #17
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

Hw is finished , now I am adjusting temperature profiles.

https://ibb.co/dm1sSWp
https://ibb.co/pWhJ44S
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Old 01-28-2022, 01:20 PM   #18
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

Quote:
Originally Posted by explorer232 View Post
Hw is finished , now I am adjusting temperature profiles.

https://ibb.co/dm1sSWp
https://ibb.co/pWhJ44S
temperature profile need to be adjusted after adjust heater height first.....


too close the heater is to bga or pcb and more hot it is and more u will pop-corn or burn bga-pcb.

normal 400 watt cinease heater should be around 5cm from bottom and about 5cm from top. after that u need to adjust power delivered to heater to make sure that in about 7-8 minutes it will reach 235 celsius and completely melt lead free solder.

if someone tell u to make more power to desolder a bga in 4 minutes then he never desoldered well a bga before.
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Old 01-28-2022, 03:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

Hi,
thanks for informations. I have more pcbs for testing. Up to this moment no bga was popcorned but there is a bit problem with warping of the bga chip with lead free solder balls - not much but I am detailist. For chip with lead solder balls it was ok but there is lower melting temp and different profile. At the moment I have 2cm top heater height from pcb but my heater is elstein 150w , I will try adjust height.

My idea is make semiautomatic station only set mode solder/desolder , temp profile for lead solder / lead free solder and start. Station made all work and beep when I can take up the chip or beep when soldering is complete (with automatic cooling). I have temp. sensors for pcb, top heater and bottom heater.

In my firmware, difference between soldering / desoldering is only shorter temp. profile - ignored time window with cooling phase in desoldering mode and in this case cooling is started by pressing button as soon as chip is removed.


My temp profile is based on documentation for manufacturers (Metcal)
So in profile are phases as preheat, soak , reflow, cooling


Quote:
Originally Posted by dellxps15 View Post
temperature profile need to be adjusted after adjust heater height first.....


too close the heater is to bga or pcb and more hot it is and more u will pop-corn or burn bga-pcb.

normal 400 watt cinease heater should be around 5cm from bottom and about 5cm from top. after that u need to adjust power delivered to heater to make sure that in about 7-8 minutes it will reach 235 celsius and completely melt lead free solder.

if someone tell u to make more power to desolder a bga in 4 minutes then he never desoldered well a bga before.

Last edited by explorer232; 01-28-2022 at 03:48 PM..
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Old 01-29-2022, 11:30 AM   #20
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Default Re: Ly ir8500 station good or?

always use flux even when desoldering.
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