My grandma's Vintage Speakers Winson SB 300 A (1979)

[goodpsusearch]

Anyone knows anything about these?

According to the label they are rated for 60W, but when I disassembled them I was fairly disappointed with the size of the magnets of the speakers.

The tweeter seems to be rated for just 0.4W (!) and made in Poland from Tonsil brand.

The woofer and the mid-range driver have no markings on them.

The crossover is just 2 electrolytic caps in series with the tweeter and the midrange driver and also a potentiometer that is just a variable resistor.

Pics attached

[goodpsusearch]

3 more pics

[R_J]

The power going to the tweeter and midrange will be limited by the crossover caps. The woofer is likely rated for a maximum of 60 watts, but this could also be 60 watts peak music power, not 60 watts RMS
They are a low cost set of speakers and were likely paired with a low power amp.
They look similar to the Technics SB-X300A

[redwire]

It looks like a low cost china or taiwan speaker. These were sold out of vans by guys in parking lots... or sometimes just fake that everyone thought was a real hifi speaker because they had the look.
But weird to have Polish drivers, "Product kit for asemply", "Precision Crafted in USA" and a fake Kansas city address. Notice the rheostat aluminum faceplate has a signal generator front-panel exposed on the backside. As if they recycled some parts.

The electrolytic capacitors are wrong, they should be non-polarized and without any inductors- the speaker's x-over is a rip-off and I would say anthing over 30W would damage the drivers.

[CapLeaker]

definitely not 60W RMS. I second RJ and redwire's post.

[goodpsusearch]

Originally Posted by R_J

The power going to the tweeter and midrange will be limited by the crossover caps. The woofer is likely rated for a maximum of 60 watts, but this could also be 60 watts peak music power, not 60 watts RMS
They are a low cost set of speakers and were likely paired with a low power amp.
They look similar to the Technics SB-X300A

The amplifier is a Philips stereo cassette turntable receiver.

Unfortunately I cannot find the model name, the unit is made back in 1980 and the paper label on the rear that stated model and other stuff is unreadable.

The turntable is plastic and it uses the idler wheel type mechanism, no belts, no direct drive. Lately the rubber has totally decomposed, so it needs new rubber wheel like the other Brawnig Mony turntable I posted on the free scores thread.

Do you think it is worth restoring? I have limited experience with vintage equipment don't want to do any harm.

But it is really beautiful and the casing is real wood.

FM radio seems to be working OK.

Tape makes a loud hum on the right channel. The belts are the original ones from 1980 so probably need replacement anyway.

I attach some pics of the unreadable label and pics of the stereo cassette turntable receiver mainboard/amp board

[goodpsusearch]

Originally Posted by redwire

It looks like a low cost china or taiwan speaker. These were sold out of vans by guys in parking lots... or sometimes just fake that everyone thought was a real hifi speaker because they had the look.
But weird to have Polish drivers, "Product kit for asemply", "Precision Crafted in USA" and a fake Kansas city address. Notice the rheostat aluminum faceplate has a signal generator front-panel exposed on the backside. As if they recycled some parts.

The electrolytic capacitors are wrong, they should be non-polarized and without any inductors- the speaker's x-over is a rip-off and I would say anthing over 30W would damage the drivers.

You are totally right, it's highly possible that everything in the back label of the speakers is lies. Does it also include the impedance / distortion diagram on the front of the speakers?

Yeap, I also noticed the weird markings on the backside of the metal of the rheostat.

OH, how did I miss that? The caps should be bipolar/nonpolar... This is Stupid!

I also noticed that there was no dumping material (but maybe it was not used back then) and that the bass reflex port has no tube, it's just a hole with grilles.

[R_J]

They are cheap, low cost speakers, likely sold for $49.95 back then, If they had everything you think they should, they would have been $349.00.
They are perfectly fine for the amp that is driving them. The whole system including stand was low cost, and did it's job and didn't cost $1000.00, likely under $200.00 including the stand.

The markings on the metal were likely silkscreened for something else and the metal was just re used and there was no need to clean off the original markings, again saving cost.

As for the hum from the cassette unit, try cleaning the record/playback switch, it should be a long narrow switch that is activated when the record button is pressed.

And look, another stupid thing, no VU meters on the receiver, and no record level adjustments for recording. And the turntable ....

[redwire]

From pics of the board, audio amplifier IC HA1338 is rated 6W at 24VDC power and 8R load. So the power level is not enough for a party Grandma need to dance
For modifications I would add a low cost Bluetooth module or stuff in an LM3886 amplifier board. There's lots of room under the turntable. The power transformer looks strong.

[goodpsusearch]

Originally Posted by R_J

And look, another stupid thing, no VU meters on the receiver, and no record level adjustments for recording. And the turntable ....

Originally Posted by redwire

From pics of the board, audio amplifier IC HA1338 is rated 6W at 24VDC power and 8R load. So the power level is not enough for a party Grandma need to dance
For modifications I would add a low cost Bluetooth module or stuff in an LM3886 amplifier board. There's lots of room under the turntable. The power transformer looks strong.

List of things missing from that sound system:

1)Most annoying : An aux input

2) Vu meters. I have a soft spot for VU meters, since I was a child. Too bad this thing doesn't have ones...

I had a boombox from my cousin that had vu meters, used to watch them move and feel so nice, his family threw it away, couldn't save it. Tried to buy used but the prices are crazy high...

This is it:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1642362061
the boombox I grew up with when I visited my other grandparents on weekends

3) More power. Seriously, when I opened datasheet, I though I had mispelled the IC codenames. 6W per channel is too low even for those days standards.. Need to pair this with very efficient speakers to be able to output some juice.

4) Bigger transformer. I think the pics are deceiving, it is not very big, I have some mini hifi systems from late 90s that have much bigger transformers.

5) Better turntable mechanism. If my online research is correct, Philips chose to use a cheap plastic BSR mechanism, any input on this?

Things I don't care at all:

1) Bluetooth capabilities. I like to stream my music through cable. But it doen't even give me this option, since it has no AUX input / option on source selector

2) Recording level adjustment

3) Dolby noise reduction system etc

Originally Posted by redwire

I would add a low cost Bluetooth module or stuff in an LM3886 amplifier board. There's lots of room under the turntable. The power transformer looks strong.

But, wouldn't this change the sound signature of the amp? Sure, it's not a tube amplifier, but it's a vintage amplifier made in 1980

[redwire]

It depends on what you want to keep vintage. It's in a nice stand. For all the room it takes up, why not have it be able to play mp3 from bluetooth? Or just add a box outside if the unit has AUX or TAPE IN at the back RCA connectors.
The cassette problems are almost always a dirty rec/play switch. Very hard to clean them because they are so long.

[goodpsusearch]

Originally Posted by redwire

Or just add a box outside if the unit has AUX or TAPE IN at the back RCA connectors.

That's the problem, it only has 2 RCA speaker outputs, 1 stereo headphone jack output and antenna connectors for the 3 band radio.

No input at all!

[momaka]

Originally Posted by goodpsusearch

You are totally right, it's highly possible that everything in the back label of the speakers is lies. Does it also include the impedance / distortion diagram on the front of the speakers?

Most cheap speakers almost always include a frequency response and/or distortion diagram. So if you see one on a set of speakers, they are likely cheap speakers (or at best, the low end of mid-fi. )

Originally Posted by goodpsusearch

I also noticed that there was no dumping material (but maybe it was not used back then) and that the bass reflex port has no tube, it's just a hole with grilles.

Damping material goes a long way back before these speakers were made... and still is used. The reason these speakers probably don't have any is because they are cheap.
But that's actually not a bad thing that there is no damping material / baffle. While having it would help to reduce some cabinet and speaker self-resonances (especially at higher output power... which these speaker drivers aren't really capable of), it can also hurt (attenuate) the low-end of the bass on ported systems. Given the sub-par woofers, they really can use all the help they can get - and that means a ported box with no dampening / baffle is probably better here.
In regards to the tube-less port - play a bass sweep through the speakers and try to hear approximately how low the bass goes. Also, listen for any "booming" notes in the mid-to-upper range of the bass (70-90 Hz) that sound much louder than the rest of the bass range. If you hear any, roll a piece of paper like a tube and stick it in the port temporarily. Then have another listen to a bass sweep. With any luck, you might extend the low end of the bass a little and reduce any booming notes. The paper port won't be ideal, but should still show some results. Start with a port length of about maybe 5 cm, then go up. If the port is too long, it will make the speaker act like a "closed" box... and given the weak woofers, you'll probably get even less bass. So don't make the tube too long. There are actually softwares that can allow you to calculate the tuning of the port frequency per given box size. For weak drivers, ~40-50 Hz tuning should give a good balance between low-end bass and high dB output.

Originally Posted by goodpsusearch

Do you think it is worth restoring? I have limited experience with vintage equipment don't want to do any harm.

But it is really beautiful and the casing is real wood.

My brother-in-law has a similar "rack" system he got back from his parents's apartment when they moved. He said they had this system since the 80's or so. Philips, as well.. and with the matching speakers. I ghetto-fixed the rotten foam on the speakers this summer, since he didn't want them, but wanted to keep the system and connect it to their TV's soundbar.

While these "rack" systems were kind of cheap and certainly nowhere near a marvel of Hi-Fi (or even good lo-fi for that matter), they do look really nice. So I'd say these are worth restoring just for the looks/radio, if nothing else (though I'm sure spending a bit more time with it can restore the other functions too.)

Originally Posted by redwire

From pics of the board, audio amplifier IC HA1338 is rated 6W at 24VDC power and 8R load. So the power level is not enough for a party Grandma need to dance

LOL at the last sentence!

6 Watts is actually not that bad with some efficient speakers. If the speakers posted in this thread are anything like the cheap Philips speakers that came with my brother-inlaw's system, they should be fairly efficient, despite the small motors.
No, you won't be demolishing walls with Bass I Love You (Heck, I'd be surprised if these speakers can even react/move to any of the bass notes in that song.)
But such speakers can still produce decent enough sound with 0.5-1 Watts input. Mostly suitable for when you have people over and sitting/conversing at the dinner table with some "light" music in the background.

Originally Posted by goodpsusearch

List of things missing from that sound system:

1)Most annoying : An aux input

You might be able to easily add that.
Just see which IC is the "mixer" pre-amp and then pick an input you'd like to "double-over" with the Aux input. For example, let's say you do that over the Tape input. Trace which signals come from the tape pre-amp IC and re-route them to one side of a DPDT switch. On the other side of the DPDT switch, add your Aux input. Depending on which way the DPDT is toggled, you'll have either the tape still playing or the Aux input.

Originally Posted by goodpsusearch

2) Vu meters. I have a soft spot for VU meters, since I was a child. Too bad this thing doesn't have ones...

I had a boombox from my cousin that had vu meters, used to watch them move and feel so nice, his family threw it away, couldn't save it. Tried to buy used but the prices are crazy high...

This is it:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1642362061
the boombox I grew up with when I visited my other grandparents on weekends

Oh man, that's such a shame that boombox went to waste. Those are really hard to come by anymore.

And yeah, I also like watching the VU meters. But I also like my dad's Sony gear (tape deck and TA-F70 amp), which had beautiful LED level bars. Watching those lite up and off as a kid is pretty much how I always listened to music.

Originally Posted by goodpsusearch

3) More power. Seriously, when I opened datasheet, I though I had mispelled the IC codenames. 6W per channel is too low even for those days standards.. Need to pair this with very efficient speakers to be able to output some juice.

Give the current speakers a listen. They might have decent efficiency. By the looks of the motor, they have a really shallow magnet and probably 0.75" VC... so they should still be able to make plenty of noise.

Originally Posted by goodpsusearch

But, wouldn't this change the sound signature of the amp? Sure, it's not a tube amplifier, but it's a vintage amplifier made in 1980

Signature? What signature?!
It's a cheap IC amp. Nothing special about it.
Mod it like crazy if you want to retain the looks but get better/updated/modern functionality.
Or use as-is for "casual" listening and nostalgia.

[eccerr0r]

TBH 2WPC is sufficiently loud for me, more than that gets into the realm of pain.
Only thing is that if running at full volume, THD tends to be fairly high for most amplifiers so yes need something with like 20WPC and run at 2W to keep THD down.

I'm still pondering whether I should get rid of my Heathkit AR-1219... Works fine but eating space, and feel a better connection with my Realistic STA-64B tuner that I got with a blown final and got it repaired...

[goodpsusearch]

Originally Posted by momaka

Most cheap speakers almost always include a frequency response and/or distortion diagram. So if you see one on a set of speakers, they are likely cheap speakers (or at best, the low end of mid-fi. )


Damping material goes a long way back before these speakers were made... and still is used. The reason these speakers probably don't have any is because they are cheap.
But that's actually not a bad thing that there is no damping material / baffle. While having it would help to reduce some cabinet and speaker self-resonances (especially at higher output power... which these speaker drivers aren't really capable of), it can also hurt (attenuate) the low-end of the bass on ported systems. Given the sub-par woofers, they really can use all the help they can get - and that means a ported box with no dampening / baffle is probably better here.
In regards to the tube-less port - play a bass sweep through the speakers and try to hear approximately how low the bass goes. Also, listen for any "booming" notes in the mid-to-upper range of the bass (70-90 Hz) that sound much louder than the rest of the bass range. If you hear any, roll a piece of paper like a tube and stick it in the port temporarily. Then have another listen to a bass sweep. With any luck, you might extend the low end of the bass a little and reduce any booming notes. The paper port won't be ideal, but should still show some results. Start with a port length of about maybe 5 cm, then go up. If the port is too long, it will make the speaker act like a "closed" box... and given the weak woofers, you'll probably get even less bass. So don't make the tube too long. There are actually softwares that can allow you to calculate the tuning of the port frequency per given box size. For weak drivers, ~40-50 Hz tuning should give a good balance between low-end bass and high dB output.


My brother-in-law has a similar "rack" system he got back from his parents's apartment when they moved. He said they had this system since the 80's or so. Philips, as well.. and with the matching speakers. I ghetto-fixed the rotten foam on the speakers this summer, since he didn't want them, but wanted to keep the system and connect it to their TV's soundbar.

While these "rack" systems were kind of cheap and certainly nowhere near a marvel of Hi-Fi (or even good lo-fi for that matter), they do look really nice. So I'd say these are worth restoring just for the looks/radio, if nothing else (though I'm sure spending a bit more time with it can restore the other functions too.)


LOL at the last sentence!

6 Watts is actually not that bad with some efficient speakers. If the speakers posted in this thread are anything like the cheap Philips speakers that came with my brother-inlaw's system, they should be fairly efficient, despite the small motors.
No, you won't be demolishing walls with Bass I Love You (Heck, I'd be surprised if these speakers can even react/move to any of the bass notes in that song.)
But such speakers can still produce decent enough sound with 0.5-1 Watts input. Mostly suitable for when you have people over and sitting/conversing at the dinner table with some "light" music in the background.


You might be able to easily add that.
Just see which IC is the "mixer" pre-amp and then pick an input you'd like to "double-over" with the Aux input. For example, let's say you do that over the Tape input. Trace which signals come from the tape pre-amp IC and re-route them to one side of a DPDT switch. On the other side of the DPDT switch, add your Aux input. Depending on which way the DPDT is toggled, you'll have either the tape still playing or the Aux input.

Noted everything, this is such a great piece of information and advise.

I also thought of using the tape input to add an aux input, but your idea of a switch is great. Now I have to google what is a DPDT switch

Originally Posted by momaka

Oh man, that's such a shame that boombox went to waste. Those are really hard to come by anymore.

And yeah, I also like watching the VU meters. But I also like my dad's Sony gear (tape deck and TA-F70 amp), which had beautiful LED level bars. Watching those lite up and off as a kid is pretty much how I always listened to music.

They are really stupid, I try not to think about it because I feel guilty I didn't save it.

My cousin also had a hifi system (probably made in Taiwan, nothing really high fidelity) but full with blinking lights. I love this kind of stuff and I really want to be able to live it again someday...

I have a graphics equalizer that came for free with the Technics MK2, those have lights, right? I have so many running projects right now I didn't even have time to test it.

And I also got for free a rack type cassette deck with VU meters but the unit appears to be totally dead. It's not the belts unfortunately. So many things to fix/test/play with!

Originally Posted by momaka

Give the current speakers a listen. They might have decent efficiency. By the looks of the motor, they have a really shallow magnet and probably 0.75" VC... so they should still be able to make plenty of noise.

Already done. Unfortunately the paper is badly torn on the mid frequency woofer and the other speaker that has no visible damage on its woofers also sounds like something went bad.

I wont spend any time on those fake speakers. I will revisit thread and let everyone know when I have news about the Philips system though

[momaka]

Originally Posted by goodpsusearch

My cousin also had a hifi system (probably made in Taiwan, nothing really high fidelity) but full with blinking lights. I love this kind of stuff and I really want to be able to live it again someday...

Heh, that reminds me of the first time I saw a JVC Gigatube system in a Sears store (once upon a time, a very respected electronics and appliance store in the USA.) I always thought those JVC systems looked absurdly ridiculous... but when I recently "re-discovered" the name via Youtube videos, its design just hit me in the face and screamed early 2000's all over it. Now when I look at them, not only do I see 2000's vintage, but TBH also something like out of a futuristic Cyberpunk world. I know it's all plastic-fantastic crap... but does look kind of interesting now, simply because it's so ridiculous. And FWIW, at least these JVC Gigatubes weren't actually that bad in terms of audio quality - small ported speaker enclosures with small-ish drivers, but big enough magnets on them to produce decent boom & rumble. They just couldn't get too loud and obviously their PMPO ratings were completely out of this world's reality. But at low-to-medium volume... they did surprisingly OK. Maybe someday I should get one of those JVCs, just for the sake of early 2000's nostalgia and flashing lights, as you mentioned.

Originally Posted by goodpsusearch

And I also got for free a rack type cassette deck with VU meters but the unit appears to be totally dead. It's not the belts unfortunately.

Maybe the transformer went bad?

Originally Posted by goodpsusearch

So many things to fix/test/play with!

I'm the same way. Sometimes I wonder if I can even complete a fraction of my started projects in my lifetime, lol.

Originally Posted by goodpsusearch

Already done. Unfortunately the paper is badly torn on the mid frequency woofer and the other speaker that has no visible damage on its woofers also sounds like something went bad.

I wont spend any time on those fake speakers.

Interesting.
Maybe the magnets are starting to rust from the inside out, like with these Panasonic Thrusters speakers? In the case of the Thrusters (what a funny name ), I didn't waste too much time trying anything with them - just saved the magnets from the drivers, the bipolar caps, and the tweeters. The rest went to the bin/trash.

[kaboom]

Originally Posted by momaka

Heh, that reminds me of the first time I saw a JVC Gigatube system in a Sears store (once upon a time, a very respected electronics and appliance store in the USA.) I always thought those JVC systems looked absurdly ridiculous... but when I recently "re-discovered" the name via Youtube videos, its design just hit me in the face and screamed early 2000's all over it. Now when I look at them, not only do I see 2000's vintage, but TBH also something like out of a futuristic Cyberpunk world. I know it's all plastic-fantastic crap... but does look kind of interesting now, simply because it's so ridiculous. And FWIW, at least these JVC Gigatubes weren't actually that bad in terms of audio quality - small ported speaker enclosures with small-ish drivers, but big enough magnets on them to produce decent boom & rumble.

Sears, now there's something that's fallen...

JVC Kaboomboxes & Gigatubers- early 2000's in their own way!
To think those are "old" or semi retro now...
Futuristic cyberpunk indeed. There was such hope then.

Originally Posted by momaka

They just couldn't get too loud and obviously their PMPO ratings were completely out of this world's reality. But at low-to-medium volume... they did surprisingly OK. Maybe someday I should get one of those JVCs, just for the sake of early 2000's nostalgia and flashing lights, as you mentioned.

Keep that thought in mind. Specifically the lights.

Originally Posted by momaka

Interesting.
Maybe the magnets are starting to rust from the inside out, like with these Panasonic Thrusters speakers? In the case of the Thrusters (what a funny name ), I didn't waste too much time trying anything with them - just saved the magnets from the drivers, the bipolar caps, and the tweeters. The rest went to the bin/trash.

Those were well & truly finished. "Thrusted" (LOL) into the trash pile!