My first PCB. (software help)

[scampo77]

i am trying to build my first PCB i have never done this before and i am excited to try something new. i need to know which software to use. i tried google for "free pcb software" and up came "express PCB"

i am wondering if this is any good?

also im not sure how to know how big the board is? i mean the perimeter what if i need to make a 30"x30" board or a 1"x1" board.

or if i should try different software that is easier or more user friendly or more popular.

[mariushm]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

KiCad is open source and good, but somewhat harder to use than commercial software. It has its quirks and some menus are harder to understand due to the main developer being French - no offense, I realize you're Canadian and therefore you probably also speak French.

Link here: http://www.kicad-pcb.org/display/KIC...Software+Suite

DIPTrace is good and easy to use.

It is commercial but has a full feature version for non-profit use with the only limitation being 2 layers board and the maximum number of pins : 300. (pins = through holes and pads for components)

There are several versions at reasonable prices, and you go from version to version (increase the maximum pins you're allowed) by paying the difference between the prices the software sells at.

Link here: http://www.diptrace.com

TIP: Resellers are authorized to give you a 500 pin non-profit license for free... and you might get better prices through them.

Go to this reseller's page and follow the links if you want : http://www.eevblog.com/diptrace/

It's Dave Jones' page - he's an engineer that does open source designs and a lot of tutorials and guides on Youtube so please don't think it's reseller spam or advertising myself. I'd buy it from him if I wanted to buy this software just as a tip for his good guides.

But if you want to start from somewhere, even the 300 pin 2 layer free version should be enough.

And last.. pretty much the premium, the best and so on would be Altium Designer... but it's $5000+

Go to this Youtube video and drool over it if you want to see how Altium works : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41r3kKm_FME (ddr 3 memory modules on a board) or this one (slower pace and with explanations : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6N_mphgKiY )

[ratdude747]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

Moved from psu design.

I personally use KICAD... but that's because I am both a linux user and a broke college student...

[LDSisHere]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

I use gEDA because it is open source, powerful and I think it is easy to use. It is also what the OpenProgrammer is done in, and it is my primary microcontroller/EEPROM programmer. It does have a steep learning curve and is far from perfect. A lot of people use Eagle Cad but the free version has a size limitation. I only use that to open projects done in it so I can convert them to gEDA.

It may be easier for you to find a simple easy program to start and then graduate to something more complex as your needs grow and you have a better understanding of what you need. I started with a free program from a place that would allow you to submit the design for them to produce you some samples. I do not even remember the name of the software, I just remember it was very limited compared to what I use now. And like Ratdude pointed out the OS you use will also limit your choices.

[ben7]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

Scampo, will you post the circuit for us?

I have express PCB - I can design (or review) the PCB if you would like.

I would NOT go for the manufacturers, they are VERY expensive (can be up to $50 for a 3" square board!).

You will have to do it DIY

-Ben

[LDSisHere]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

I would NOT go for the manufacturers, they are VERY expensive (can be up to $50 for a 3" square board!).

In case I was misunderstood, I was not recommending the outsourcing of the PCB production. I just used a manufacturer's software, printed out the design and etched it myself. I am not saying this is the best way, it is just how I got started. It may be best to pick the a good program from the start but it is hard to know what is good for you and your needs until you have tried a few programs.

Are you already setup to etch your own boards or is this something you are just starting to do? There are many methods to do this and I am sure just as many opinions as to what is best. The method you use for this will also depend on what you want to accomplish, your time, effort, equipment on hand and most of all $$$ to spend.

[tom66]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

seeedstudio.com - 2-layer silkscreened green soldermask PCBs made in China, you get 10qty 5x5cm boards for $15 shipped to US or UK; or 10qty 10x10cm for $30 shipped.

I've used them a lot, expect a couple of the boards to be dud but at least 5 are guaranteed good and marked as such.

DorkbotPDX PCB gives you three boards at $5 per sq inch and the boards are made in US. Generally better quality (all boards will be guaranteed perfect), but not so cheap. Shipping is $5.

[budm]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

Is this for the LM3914 project?

[scampo77]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

yes it is i think if i have a board that doesnt look like a dogs breakfast it will be easier to figure out where my faults are. i thought if i have atleast a layout on a board that everyone can help me modify it will be obvious where my problems are.

it is 2x LM3914 and a power supply of a LM317T

[Agent24]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

Add my vote for KiCAD. I love it! Free and no artificial limitations.

[scampo77]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

BudM, which ssoftware did you use to make the circuit you designed for me? i am looking at Kicad and there is a auto arrange option. does whatever software you used have this feature?

[budm]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

I use Altium Designer 10 for SCH capture and PCB layout, then I use Solid Works Mechanical design for form fitting into the Chassis at work.
At home I use old Protel (now is Altium) and AutoCad.

[Agent24]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

BudM, which ssoftware did you use to make the circuit you designed for me? i am looking at Kicad and there is a auto arrange option. does whatever software you used have this feature?

Do you mean auto-placement of footprints in the board layout?

[tom66]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

I use gEDA Schematic and PCB layout at home which is good free software. At work we use Cadence Design Entry (CIS) and Allegro. The software isn't cheap - about £7,000 by last count...

[scampo77]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

I have decided on express PCB and it was free and it seemed to have the least amount of buttons on the preimeter which made it less intimidating. I am ready to transfer the images to a copper plate. ill enclose some pictures here. I am having trouble flipping one of the images.

I need to transfer one normally and one needs to be inverted, like a mirror image, so all the holes line up. i cant save it to jpeg in express PCB all I can do is print it to a PDF file. if anyone wants to try help me email me at scampo77@gmail.com i cant post up the file extension .pcb

[Agent24]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

You can upload ZIP archives to the forum, put the files inside a ZIP then upload.

[mariushm]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

Hmmm... I'm looking at the drawings and I'm a bit puzzled.

What's the reasoning for breaking up those ground connections at the LEDs? I'd keep them all on the same side. Having continuous ground never hurts.

With a bit of careful positioning of the parts, it looks like you could place the second LM3914 by the other LM chip, route all the traces from the first on the bottom of the PCB and the traces of the second between the LEDs belonging to the first LM chip.
As the ground is all at the bottom, you would be able to freely route all the traces without going up and down like crazy.

Of course, this is all without knowing what each of those components by the LM actually mean and what height issues you might have.

ps. You should also be careful when designing the traces, use 45 degree angles wherever possible. 90 degree angles can cause problems, copper peeling off the boards and other issues.

ps2. Sure, if you're willing to post the files in a zip file I'm up for looking and giving you feedback as well. Though, I didn't do lots of pcbs in my life.

[Agent24]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

The circuit looks simple enough it should be possible with a single sided board, which will make it far easier to build and troubleshoot, and if you are manufacturing the board yourself double-sided is a big pain. They are doable, but not what I would advise for a first

You might find reading this to be useful http://alternatezone.com/electronics/pcbdesign.htm

[ben7]

Re: My first PCB. (software help)

I came up with this PCB (in the zip attached).

IDK if it is correct, budm or someone else can double check it.

The LEDs are mounted off the board, so they can be mounted in a tight space if need be.

The LED header (11 pins):
pin 1 - LED 1
pin 2 - LED 2
pin 3 - LED 3
pin 4 - LED 4
pin 5 - LED 5
pin 6 - LED 6
pin 7 - LED 7
pin 8 - LED 8
pin 9 - LED 9
pin 10 - LED 10
pin 11 - Common Vcc

-Ben