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    Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

    I moved a circuit from a breadboard to a standard generic PCB prototype board, and the circuit didn't work on the PCB board. Specifically, a small Arduino Wifi device wouldn't even boot while it was on the PCB board.

    Naturally, I checked all of my solder connections under a magnifying glass and I triple checked the wiring to make sure it was consistent with the schematic. This is a VERY SIMPLE circuit ... maybe a total of 10 wires are involved at the most ... a couple of pins, a transistor, couple resistors, and an LED.

    Ultimately, I discovered that I was getting voltages in some cases almost 2 volts on pins that weren't even connected, so I went through a process of elimination to try and isolate where the voltage was coming from until I accidentally placed my meter onto one of the circles on the board that had nothing on it at all and read 1.6 volts. So then I checked about 15 more various points on the board that was not connected to anything and I was seeing the same voltage... so then, I realized that this stray voltage that seems to exist over the entire board would easily explain why the circuit is not working.

    My question is: Is it a known or common problem for these prototype boards to do this? I have no idea how they could possibly conduct electricity to all of the pins on the board when they are specifically engineered to have electrical isolation between connection points.

    I did try two other boards that I had laying around, and I pre-cleaned them with rubbing alcohol but got the same results. Granted, these boards I've have in my stockpile for a few years, but that shouldn't cause this problem, should it?

    Here is a sample of the board I'm talking about:



    Thanks for your feedback,
    Attached Files
    Last edited by EasyGoing1; 10-05-2020, 12:35 PM.

    #2
    Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

    maybe damp got in ..

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

      Originally posted by petehall347 View Post
      maybe damp got in ..
      I live in Southern California in the high desert ... the climate here is VERY dry, and I do not use an evaporative cooler. We use air conditioning. The likelihood of the boards becoming damp is VERY unlikely.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

        damp from the trip from china on a container ship?

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

          Maybe put the board in the oven on low temp like 200F or into a pile of desiccant over night.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

            Originally posted by stj View Post
            damp from the trip from china on a container ship?
            A good theory that I could probably be convinced to accept.

            :-)

            Originally posted by tester272001 View Post
            Maybe put the board in the oven on low temp like 200F or into a pile of desiccant over night.
            That is an excellent idea and I'm going to do that. Except I don't have any desiccant that I know of...

            Thank you

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

              Originally posted by tester272001 View Post
              Maybe put the board in the oven on low temp like 200F or into a pile of desiccant over night.
              I'm going to order some Calcium Sulfate powder from Amazon and give that a shot ... for science! :-)

              Edit: Actually I see that baking powder is a mild desiccant so I'll just use that as I have a fresh box in the cupboard.
              Last edited by EasyGoing1; 10-05-2020, 01:49 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

                try measuring ohms point to point around the board .

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

                  did you try a different circuit board?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

                    Show us the pictures of the actual stuffed board.

                    "Ultimately, I discovered that I was getting voltages in some cases almost 2 volts on pins that weren't even connected, "
                    Are you talking about the component pin that is not connected to any thing and not terminated (pulled high or pulled low)?

                    What did you use for ground for the meter?
                    What happen if you just float the meter probe close to the active section of the circuit, do you see the stray Voltage reading?
                    Never stop learning
                    Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                    Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                    Inverter testing using old CFL:
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                    Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                    http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                    TV Factory reset codes listing:
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

                      Originally posted by budm View Post
                      Show us the pictures of the actual stuffed board.

                      "Ultimately, I discovered that I was getting voltages in some cases almost 2 volts on pins that weren't even connected, "
                      Are you talking about the component pin that is not connected to any thing and not terminated (pulled high or pulled low)?

                      What did you use for ground for the meter?
                      What happen if you just float the meter probe close to the active section of the circuit, do you see the stray Voltage reading?
                      If you look at the photo, it shows where I had components soldered to the board, and where I was reading voltage where there were no components soldered to the board. So if I misused the term "pin" and that was confusing, I apologize. The point is, I was reading voltages on the proto-board where nothing was connected nor soldered and at distances several "holes" away from any component that was soldered to the board.

                      So I was reading voltage anywhere on the board where there was metal even though those points are supposed to be electrically isolated from each other.

                      As far as ground goes, I was using the ground lead from the power source.

                      I have already removed everything from this specific board and I have it in the oven as someone else suggested. I'll give it about 10 hours or so and then try again to see what happens ... just out of curiosity - as I already ordered some new proto boards to finish this project with.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

                        i use a lot of those boards, i'v not metered them, but everything i built works fine.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

                          Originally posted by EasyGoing1 View Post
                          A good theory that I could probably be convinced to accept.

                          :-)



                          That is an excellent idea and I'm going to do that. Except I don't have any desiccant that I know of...

                          Thank you
                          I quick cheap dessicant would be rice or kitty litter. it will absorb moisture, maybe even salt could be used. this is pretty cheap too:
                          https://www.amazon.com/Wisedry-Recha...RGVFNTP01X4538

                          definately test resistance on an empty board to see if any low values. should not get any low ohms on those!
                          Last edited by tester272001; 10-05-2020, 07:38 PM. Reason: addition

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

                            Originally posted by stj View Post
                            i use a lot of those boards, i'v not metered them, but everything i built works fine.
                            I second this! I've used these for basic circuits and always work fine.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

                              You might be on a goose chase because the multimeter is picking up anything it can.
                              Water-soluble flux is ionic so that can also cause leakage currents across a board. It takes many days to air-dry a pc board and IPA usually is diluted with water in it.
                              The DC-DC converter can also radiate a lot of EMI which a multimeter can pick up.

                              You can disable the DC-DC and see if you still get stray voltage readings.
                              Take an ohmmeter reading between the places you are getting readings. Think about it - the DMM has 10MEG input resistance so to read 1VDC it must be seeing ? ohms...

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

                                Post #11:"What happen if you just float the meter probe close to the active section of the circuit, do you see the stray Voltage reading?"
                                You have meter with 10M input Z so it will easily pick up radiate signals.
                                Never stop learning
                                Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                                Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                                Inverter testing using old CFL:
                                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                                Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                                http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                                TV Factory reset codes listing:
                                http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

                                  This reminded me of another weird happening this morning. I had my analog VOM (some crappy 1KΩ/V IIRC) in 50V range, and had the (+) probe on a 55V power source. The (-) probe was left dangling.

                                  I read a ~ 10V on the meter despite the (-) probe unconnected.

                                  Could not replicate the situation. Guess was some humidity affecting the (-) probe wire...

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

                                    Analog panel meters can build up static electricity on the face, and the needle will move up. Just rub your shirt a bit on the meter face, then breathe on it to dissipate the charge.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

                                      there is a charge in the air, that's why you can get pretty patterns on a scope by touching a conductive object - including yourself.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: Weird issues with stray voltage on prototype board

                                        Nope, that would not explain why the meter goes to 0V when I disconnected the (+) probe... Also all measurements were set and release - I was not touching any part of the system after connecting:

                                        (+) and (-) probe connected - over range 55V on 50V (BTW this is expected, I knew the voltage is around 55V but that's fine.)
                                        Neither probe connected - 0V (expected)
                                        (-) probe connected by itself - 0V (expected)
                                        (+) probe connected by itself - 10V (Unexpected)

                                        Cannot explain then, cannot replicate now.
                                        Last edited by eccerr0r; 10-06-2020, 10:49 AM.

                                        Comment

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