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Old 07-29-2018, 07:11 PM   #1
ratdude747
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Default New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

Here's my latest computer delimma... my personal laptop.

Currently my main personal laptop is a Dell Latitude E6430 almost fully optioned out. Runs great... but the SSD I have in it is getting a bit small... actually, it's been a bit small, but I'm tired of having to move crap to external devices/server space. Currently I have a 120GB Intel 520; I run dualboot of Arch x64 and Windows 7.

This weekend, since I'm moored up in Canada with nothing else to really do (yay work), I decided to go SSD shopping (both brick and mortar and online)... and while prices have fallen, to get a bigger SSD, is going to cost me at least $60 for a decent unit (3D NAND, If I'm buying new I want to get something good). Ok, fair enough. $60 or so (probably $75+ after shipping), and we're fixed... but...

From what I'm seeing SATA is a dying standard. With rotating media (DVD/Blue-ray and HDDs) going to the wayside (for laptops at least), from what I've been reading, SATA will go poof with it, mainly because PCIe based standards (NVME/M2) are better suited to the parallel access that SSDs allow. Keeping that in mind, one though I'm considering is NOT upgrading the SSD and instead saving up for something new enough to put an M2 drive in, most likely a Dell Latitude E5470 (or similar). Those run around $250+ at the moment... and that's without the M2 drive or any options I'd add (backlit keyboard, Wifi/CPU/RAM upgrades, etc). It would be a long term option.

Other than the speakers (which I've given up on; replaced them once only to fail again soon after), there isn't anything physically wrong with the E6430... it's just getting a bit old (going on 6 years) and while I don't care to be bleeding edge on hardware (I'd go broke), I also want be at least a little bit future proof.

Thoughts?
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Old 07-29-2018, 07:13 PM   #2
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

Im getting the P52 as soon as it goes CTO. A bit out of your price range, but it'll keep up for a decade or more...
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Old 07-29-2018, 07:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

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Im getting the P52 as soon as it goes CTO. A bit out of your price range, but it'll keep up for a decade or more...
Screw lenovo, I've had nothing but headaches with their crap. Dells are a lot easier to service and are far more upgradeable. Lenovo makes it hard to upgrade (like having to replace an entire LVDS cable just to add a bluetooth module, etc); dell makes it a lot easier (plus no wifi whitelists!).
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Old 07-29-2018, 07:51 PM   #4
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

why dont you put a second drive in the optical bay with an adapter?
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Old 07-29-2018, 08:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

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why dont you put a second drive in the optical bay with an adapter?
Because splitting things between two drives isn't really the approach I want to take. I'd still need to buy a drive, and now I've lost my DVD drive. I don't use it all that much anymore, granted, but it seems kinda hacked to keep half of a running setup on a second drive. Due to the way my space is used, unless I moved an entire OS over, it wouldn't be an easy split and even then, I'm an accidental eject press away from ruining an OS install. Ugh.

Good idea, but not what I want.
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Old 07-29-2018, 08:11 PM   #6
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

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Originally Posted by ratdude747 View Post
Screw lenovo, I've had nothing but headaches with their crap. Dells are a lot easier to service and are far more upgradeable. Lenovo makes it hard to upgrade (like having to replace an entire LVDS cable just to add a bluetooth module, etc); dell makes it a lot easier (plus no wifi whitelists!).
Do they got a laptop with a Xeon CPU?
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Old 07-29-2018, 08:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

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Originally Posted by ratdude747 View Post
Currently my main personal laptop is a Dell Latitude E6430 almost fully optioned out. Runs great... but the SSD I have in it is getting a bit small... actually, it's been a bit small, but I'm tired of having to move crap to external devices/server space. Currently I have a 120GB Intel 530; I run dualboot of Arch x64 and Windows 7.
How often do you switch between the two? Is there a reason to have both on the same laptop (e.g., while traveling, you want to be able to run either OS without having to "commit" to either when you pack your suitcase)?

[I have a collection of laptops that I choose among based on what OS -- and what applications -- I want to have/run. No multiboot headaches.]

Quote:
From what I'm seeing SATA is a dying standard. With rotating media (DVD/Blue-ray and HDDs) going to the wayside (for laptops at least), from what I've been reading, SATA will go poof with it, mainly because PCIe based standards (NVME/M2) are better suited to the parallel access that SSDs allow.
SATA will still be around for a considerable while. You'll see M2 drives packaged into smaller/sleeker offerings (to capitalize on their smaller size). But, that won't help make your existing Dell any smaller! :-/

Quote:
Keeping that in mind, one though I'm considering is NOT upgrading the SSD and instead saving up for something new enough to put an M2 drive in, most likely a Dell Latitude E5470 (or similar). Those run around $250+ at the moment... and that's without the M2 drive or any options I'd add (backlit keyboard, Wifi/CPU/RAM upgrades, etc). It would be a long term option.
How long would you continue to hold onto your existing Dell -- if you found a way to do so "amicably"? How long would you expect to hold onto its replacement? What do you see happening to your storage requirements in both of those periods? What do you see happening to your "computing" requirements?? E.g., are you going to suddenly want to start doing 3D CAD on the box? Or, will you primarily use it for lightweight tasks? (I only use laptops when I'm away from home. I've grown too accustomed to large display spaces. So, a laptop is just a web browser, email reader and "editor" -- of some form or another)

Quote:
there isn't anything physically wrong with the E6430... it's just getting a bit old (going on 6 years)
Throwing your own words back at you: so, all you need is more storage to be content?

Quote:
I also want be at least a little bit future proof.
This comes back to my earlier questions regarding how you imagine The Future (and your needs therein).

I personally find most machines to be "adequate" -- the bottleneck (for the sort of work that I do) sits behind the keyboard. So, I aim for comfort and convenience (big displays and work areas).

It's also SUPER expensive for me to "upgrade" -- hardware AND software. Just too much time involved chasing down new licenses, updates, installing software, figuring out what works differently, reconfiguring program options, etc. So, I can actually be MORE productive with an older computer that's already "in place" than I could ever be if I had to invest weeks trying to get back to that same place on newer hardware! :<

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Old 07-29-2018, 08:16 PM   #8
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

SATA is dying out? First I've ever heard of that one.
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Old 07-29-2018, 08:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

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SATA is dying out? First I've ever heard of that one.
It's losing "designs" in the small/portable market -- where most folks aren't interested in having heaps of storage. OTOH, the other end of the spectrum will never pay for the performance that SSDs afford when dealing with HUGE secondary stores.

[I've been fitting 16M - 16GB DoM's to SBC's to make a variety of appliances. You can do a lot in 16M; a veritable shi*tload in 16G!!]

Don't be surprised if you start seeing "removable memory card" systems in the market, soon. And, "load once" applications running off gobs of RAM to hide their loading costs (from serial storage interfaces).
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Old 07-29-2018, 08:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

^
That kind of makes me a little sad.....but that said, I don't do much in tech anymore...and I am very 'obsolete' in my tech interests...but I digress.

/hijack
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Old 07-29-2018, 09:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

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Originally Posted by Topcat View Post
^
That kind of makes me a little sad.....but that said, I don't do much in tech anymore...and I am very 'obsolete' in my tech interests...but I digress.

/hijack
People (developers, marketers) long ago lost their creative edge. Cheap hardware has fostered sloppy/inefficient designs. The days of carefully using sorely limited resources and maximizing performance are long past. The "younguns" would be completely stressed if faced with anything less than a gigabyte of memory, gobs of disk space and multigigahertz/multicore processors!
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Old 07-29-2018, 09:47 PM   #12
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

M.2 is a form factor, they come on PCIe and SATA variants.
I believe the Dell E5470 only uses two of it's four PCIe lanes though.
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Old 07-29-2018, 10:25 PM   #13
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

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Do they got a laptop with a Xeon CPU?
Not that I know of. But if Lenovo does, I'm sure they will. My Precision Laptops at work (M6800 and 7710) both kick ass, and they have "normal" i7's in them. For a laptop, I don't really see the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious.George View Post
How often do you switch between the two? Is there a reason to have both on the same laptop (e.g., while traveling, you want to be able to run either OS without having to "commit" to either when you pack your suitcase)?

[I have a collection of laptops that I choose among based on what OS -- and what applications -- I want to have/run. No multiboot headaches.]
All of my laptops, minus my Asus Transformer, are dualbooted. Heck, My Latitude D630 is triple booted. Once in a while having windows 7 as a fallback comes in handy; I primarlly use the Arch installation (and I am now, actually).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious.George View Post
SATA will still be around for a considerable while. You'll see M2 drives packaged into smaller/sleeker offerings (to capitalize on their smaller size). But, that won't help make your existing Dell any smaller! :-/
Well yeah... But from what it sounds like, most new product development will be aimed at NVME, as that standard is a better match for SSD's strengths (SATA was designed around non-parallel rotating drives, not massively parallel NAND banks). This isn't a "not on shelves anymore" qustion as much as it is a "worthy of future investment" question.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious.George View Post
How long would you continue to hold onto your existing Dell -- if you found a way to do so "amicably"? How long would you expect to hold onto its replacement? What do you see happening to your storage requirements in both of those periods? What do you see happening to your "computing" requirements?? E.g., are you going to suddenly want to start doing 3D CAD on the box? Or, will you primarily use it for lightweight tasks? (I only use laptops when I'm away from home. I've grown too accustomed to large display spaces. So, a laptop is just a web browser, email reader and "editor" -- of some form or another)

CAD and the like isn't on this laptop probably never will be. Any more, I use it for web browsing, document creation/editing, minecraft (primary use machine; at one point I was running it on my server and using the laptop as client, but since I moved I haven't been able to get a static IP address to port forward for road use), VDI, and other similar things. CAD and technical stuff is on the work laptops (duh, it's their software not mine), so that doesn't even factor in.

What else would be added if I upgraded? Mainly music and some of my video recordings of things. Also some other software if a need arose. I'm getting by for now, but each OS has like 10GB or less of free space in the current setup.

Even if I upgraded I'd still hang on to this one... hell I still have it's predecessor (the D630) still in service and if I had a working battery, it's other predecessor (a heavily modded Asus X83V) would be too (still runs; I maintain it but without a battery it's pretty much useless as a laptop). Laptops aren't bulky and make good spares in case things happen. As for how long until the next upgrade; that would depend on the course of technology and my circumstances. The last upgrade was initially because I was sold a lenovo P400 for dirt cheap, and then it failed and was shelved. Coincidentally, I also scored the Asus around that time and for a while I did run both laptops for college use. Eventually I moved the P400 guts (ivy bridge i7, 8GB DDR3, and the SSD) to an E5530, which was replaced by the E6430 (again, moving even more guts over) after it bombed it's 2nd set of laptop hinges. I was getting into minecraft at the time, and the P400/E5530/E6430 trilogy is what enabled that and is what I use for such today. Technically the E6430 is on the bottom end of that's "recommended" for minecraft; it does run rough on occasion but usually it's not too horrible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious.George View Post
Throwing your own words back at you: so, all you need is more storage to be content?



This comes back to my earlier questions regarding how you imagine The Future (and your needs therein).

I personally find most machines to be "adequate" -- the bottleneck (for the sort of work that I do) sits behind the keyboard. So, I aim for comfort and convenience (big displays and work areas).

It's also SUPER expensive for me to "upgrade" -- hardware AND software. Just too much time involved chasing down new licenses, updates, installing software, figuring out what works differently, reconfiguring program options, etc. So, I can actually be MORE productive with an older computer that's already "in place" than I could ever be if I had to invest weeks trying to get back to that same place on newer hardware! :<
Not really in my case. The linux side would be a direct copy and tweak (as are most of my arch installs anymore... copy, reset a few UUID related things, rebuild the kernel, and fire in the hole!). The windows side would be a bit more, but unlike some of my other systems (Xeon gallatin rigs in particular), nothing special would be going on and it would just be a straight up install. No new licenses needed as aside from windows itself (SLIC'd, so no problem), I don't have any license-sold software on anything to worry about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topcat View Post
SATA is dying out? First I've ever heard of that one.
For SSDs it probably will in the next few years (or at least new developement will stagnate). As mentioned above, SATA isn't SSD optimized, while NVME (M2, etc.) is. It's in pretty much every respect a better interface for SSD's.

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Originally Posted by diif View Post
M.2 is a form factor, they come on PCIe and SATA variants.
I believe the Dell E5470 only uses two of it's four PCIe lanes though.
Not sure, I'd have to look into it. Still would be faster than SATA at any rate.

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Old 07-29-2018, 11:31 PM   #14
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

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Originally Posted by Curious.George View Post
People (developers, marketers) long ago lost their creative edge. Cheap hardware has fostered sloppy/inefficient designs. The days of carefully using sorely limited resources and maximizing performance are long past. The "younguns" would be completely stressed if faced with anything less than a gigabyte of memory, gobs of disk space and multigigahertz/multicore processors!
lol
my first computer had about 30k program space.
but when your handcrafting stuff in assembler and then hand converting it into hex before inputting it, 30k is huge!
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Old 07-29-2018, 11:49 PM   #15
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lol
my first computer had about 30k program space.
but when your handcrafting stuff in assembler and then hand converting it into hex before inputting it, 30k is huge!
The boot ROM for a Nova (minicomputer)-based product I worked on was 16 words. With that, you had to successfully get the program image installed into the core (REAL cores!) memory. You were VERY creative in how you used each of those words!

The first product I designed had 12KB of "program" memory (that cost $300) and 512 *bytes* of RAM -- running at a blazing ~1MHz.

My generic thermostat probably has more resources and doesn't do 1/100th what that original product did!

Code:
while (FOREVER)
   case mode {
        heat =>
           heat((temp < setpoint) ? on : off)
        cool =>
           acbrr((temp > setpoint) ? on : off)
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Old 07-30-2018, 01:02 AM   #16
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Once in a while having windows 7 as a fallback comes in handy; I primarlly use the Arch installation (and I am now, actually).
But, could you pare down the W7 partition so that it only has what you consider necessary for that "fallback"?

Alternatively, I know you can run Live CD's of Linux. And, can install Windows from a thumb drive. Is it possible to make a "Live CD" of windows and just keep it in a jewel case in your laptop bag?

Quote:
Well yeah... But from what it sounds like, most new product development will be aimed at NVME, as that standard is a better match for SSD's strengths (SATA was designed around non-parallel rotating drives, not massively parallel NAND banks). This isn't a "not on shelves anymore" question as much as it is a "worthy of future investment" question.
Most FLASH is still serial in nature. And, there's still a controller sitting between "you" and "it". Also, the trend in interfaces has been one of reducing the number of connections (conductors). So, you may find "enhanced SATA" interfaces evolving (16Gb/s is pretty darn fast for a storage device!)

Quote:
CAD and the like isn't on this laptop probably never will be. Any more, I use it for web browsing, document creation/editing, minecraft (primary use machine; at one point I was running it on my server and using the laptop as client, but since I moved I haven't been able to get a static IP address to port forward for road use), VDI, and other similar things. CAD and technical stuff is on the work laptops (duh, it's their software not mine), so that doesn't even factor in.
So, it doesn't sound like you need gobs of storage for 3D models or gobs of MIPS to crunch them. I.e., the current device is "adequate" in terms of capabilities -- excepting secondary storage?

Quote:
What else would be added if I upgraded? Mainly music and some of my video recordings of things. Also some other software if a need arose. I'm getting by for now, but each OS has like 10GB or less of free space in the current setup.
Have you looked to see how much you can prune from each of the OS's? Get rid of stuff/services that you don't really need?

This also begs the question as to how heavily you use the laptop and how much of that use could be migrated to a desktop, instead.

Quote:
Even if I upgraded I'd still hang on to this one... hell I still have it's predecessor (the D630) still in service and if I had a working battery, it's other predecessor (a heavily modded Asus X83V) would be too (still runs; I maintain it but without a battery it's pretty much useless as a laptop). Laptops aren't bulky and make good spares in case things happen.
Agreed. I don't let software (including updates) onto my workstations after they are built (this helps avoid the "you need to reinstall windows" phenomenon). The exceptions are the *BSD boxes (because they are SO much easier to install/uninstall apps, cleanly!)

So, when I have some piece of software that I need to run -- often, just ONCE -- I drag out a laptop, install it, use it, and then restore the original laptop disk image from my archive. So, it's ready for the next "one-off" application that I encounter.

Quote:
Technically the E6430 is on the bottom end of that's "recommended" for minecraft; it does run rough on occasion but usually it's not too horrible.
(sigh) Arcade pieces are for playing games, not computers!

Quote:
Not really in my case. The linux side would be a direct copy and tweak (as are most of my arch installs anymore... copy, reset a few UUID related things, rebuild the kernel, and fire in the hole!). The windows side would be a bit more, but unlike some of my other systems (Xeon gallatin rigs in particular), nothing special would be going on and it would just be a straight up install. No new licenses needed as aside from windows itself (SLIC'd, so no problem), I don't have any license-sold software on anything to worry about.
I use my windows on my workstations for most "serious" work -- CAD, PCB layout, schematic capture, desktop publishing, multimedia authoring, etc. I've got a small fortune tied up in software so I am loathe to "losing" access to those tools. As a result, I spend an inordinate amount of time deciding which apps go on each box and getting the configurations down pat. "No, I don't want YOU to claim that file extension! I want this other application to use it, instead!"

E.g., it will take me more than a month to rebuild my CAD workstation. (approaching the top of my ToDo list)

I use *BSD boxes for "network stuff" -- all my core services, some of the repositories, some software development tools, etc.

And, Slowaris to "proof" my code for Big Endian hosts (to ensure it is portable in that respect).

Of the three environments, the Windows one is by far the most tedious in terms of maintenance. As a result, I try not to impose on it any more than absolutely necessary. By contrast, I freely modify the *BSD boxes and try to base most of my "special" uses on it.

E.g., I have several diskless/headless workstations set up for specific purposes. Each has a specific set of I/Os and cabled peripherals. They all boot from a shared server appliance (a little headless 1.6GHz Atom that hides under a dresser) and is configured (on that little box) for a specific use:
  • interface to my Unisite
  • interface to the non-network-capable scanners (narrow SCSI host)
  • interface to the many USB/eSATA "external disk hosts"
  • interface to wide HVD SCSI host
  • interface to wide LVD SCSI host (different set of peripherals)

I'm sure there is a way to have a Windows host provide this support. But, it will probably change with the next release. And, have countless non-standard extensions, etc. No thank you, redmond. Easier to do these things on a host for which I can modify the kernel and services as needed.
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Old 07-30-2018, 06:04 AM   #17
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

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Originally Posted by Curious.George View Post
But, could you pare down the W7 partition so that it only has what you consider necessary for that "fallback"?

Alternatively, I know you can run Live CD's of Linux. And, can install Windows from a thumb drive. Is it possible to make a "Live CD" of windows and just keep it in a jewel case in your laptop bag?
I've already done that to windows... it has everything I'd want for a fallback plus some small extra things that are windows only (the other reason why I dualboot). Live CD's/USB's are slow as dirt and are junk for routine use. They're good for testing and installers, and nothing more.


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Originally Posted by Curious.George View Post
Most FLASH is still serial in nature. And, there's still a controller sitting between "you" and "it". Also, the trend in interfaces has been one of reducing the number of connections (conductors). So, you may find "enhanced SATA" interfaces evolving (16Gb/s is pretty darn fast for a storage device!)
SATA Express is NVME and thus parallel. Basically SATA has conceded that they cannot keep up with SSD's, hence why their latest standard only uses SATA connectors for backwards compatibility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SATA_Express



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Originally Posted by Curious.George View Post
So, it doesn't sound like you need gobs of storage for 3D models or gobs of MIPS to crunch them. I.e., the current device is "adequate" in terms of capabilities -- excepting secondary storage?
Well duh, I was only looking at doubling my drive capacity. Although more RAM would be nice too.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious.George View Post
Have you looked to see how much you can prune from each of the OS's? Get rid of stuff/services that you don't really need?

This also begs the question as to how heavily you use the laptop and how much of that use could be migrated to a desktop, instead.
Already done on both accounts. I'm not hauling an entire workstation on a road trip.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious.George View Post
So, when I have some piece of software that I need to run -- often, just ONCE -- I drag out a laptop, install it, use it, and then restore the original laptop disk image from my archive. So, it's ready for the next "one-off" application that I encounter.
Not my situation.



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Originally Posted by Curious.George View Post
(sigh) Arcade pieces are for playing games, not computers!
No, not at all in this case. Computers are versatile and can be used for many things.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious.George View Post
I use my windows on my workstations for most "serious" work -- CAD, PCB layout, schematic capture, desktop publishing, multimedia authoring, etc. I've got a small fortune tied up in software so I am loathe to "losing" access to those tools. As a result, I spend an inordinate amount of time deciding which apps go on each box and getting the configurations down pat. "No, I don't want YOU to claim that file extension! I want this other application to use it, instead!"

E.g., it will take me more than a month to rebuild my CAD workstation. (approaching the top of my ToDo list)

I use *BSD boxes for "network stuff" -- all my core services, some of the repositories, some software development tools, etc.
Once I graduated college and (eventually) got a real engineering job, with the exception of KiCAD (PCB design software), all of my technical stuff has been on company equipment. Hence the two Precision laptops.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious.George View Post
Of the three environments, the Windows one is by far the most tedious in terms of maintenance. As a result, I try not to impose on it any more than absolutely necessary. By contrast, I freely modify the *BSD boxes and try to base most of my "special" uses on it.

E.g., I have several diskless/headless workstations set up for specific purposes. Each has a specific set of I/Os and cabled peripherals. They all boot from a shared server appliance (a little headless 1.6GHz Atom that hides under a dresser) and is configured (on that little box) for a specific use:
  • interface to my Unisite
  • interface to the non-network-capable scanners (narrow SCSI host)
  • interface to the many USB/eSATA "external disk hosts"
  • interface to wide HVD SCSI host
  • interface to wide LVD SCSI host (different set of peripherals)

I'm sure there is a way to have a Windows host provide this support. But, it will probably change with the next release. And, have countless non-standard extensions, etc. No thank you, redmond. Easier to do these things on a host for which I can modify the kernel and services as needed.
Different use and application. Thanks but no thanks.
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Old 07-30-2018, 07:21 AM   #18
stj
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

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Originally Posted by Curious.George View Post
(sigh) Arcade pieces are for playing games, not computers!
yes, but those of us who have them are the lucky ones - prices are going stupid now.
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Old 07-30-2018, 08:45 AM   #19
Curious.George
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

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Originally Posted by ratdude747 View Post
Live CD's/USB's are slow as dirt and are junk for routine use.
That's just because the ENTIRE CD isn't pulled into RAM and left there. Instead, it keeps being accessed each time you "load" a new command.

Most appliances have their software stored in FLASH (so, imagine it as being an SSD). But, very few use XIP (execute in place) -- as it relies on "word accessible" medium (typ. NOR flash).

Instead, the bootstrap loads much/all of the FLASH into system RAM and executes the code from that -- no "access delays" as the FLASH is not needed after that.

With CD's being hundreds of megabytes and system RAM commonly many gigabytes, this should be a no-brainer. The siplest case is to build a RAM disk on boot and copy everything into it before you emit the "ready" prompt. Makes your SSD look SLOW, by comparison! :>

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SATA Express is NVME and thus parallel. Basically SATA has conceded that they cannot keep up with SSD's, hence why their latest standard only uses SATA connectors for backwards compatibility.
I'm talking about the interface to the actual medium. NAND flash is a serial device. You "shift" data out of it (very quickly). Internally, it is much cheaper (and denser) than NOR flash -- which essentially looks just like RAM, albeit slower.

E.g., a 1MB NOR flash would have 20 address lines and 8 data lines -- plus a few control signals (read, write, enable, etc.)

PCI is a parallel interface. PCIe/SATA are serial.

Quote:
Well duh, I was only looking at doubling my drive capacity. Although more RAM would be nice too.
See above wrt live CD's. Note that the diskless/headless systems that I mention, below, HAVE NO DISKS. I.e., they execute entirely out of RAM. As configured, though, they "load" new programs from the network, as needed; I don't need the ability to run EVERYTHING out of their RAM -- load once -- as they are typically "single purpose" devices: scan this document, read this medium, etc.

Quote:
Already done on both accounts. I'm not hauling an entire workstation on a road trip.
That was the point of my "use" question. E.g., I only use a laptop for portability, not for "working". In addition to email/WWW, I may WRITE some code. Or, work on a schematic/board layout. But, I'm not inclined to use any of the features of those programs that gobble up resources. E.g., I'm not going to try to render an animation on a laptop. Or, "make world".

I may opt to compile a piece of code that I've just written to check for errors, etc. Or, maybe even debug it -- if it is hardware neutral (e.g., a generic algorithm). But, in most cases, I would need the (hardware) prototype of whatever I'm designing in order to actually RUN the code as intended. "I'm not hauling an entire prototype on a road trip" :>

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No, not at all in this case. Computers are versatile and can be used for many things.
Do you own a TV? DVD player? Hi-Fi? Why not just use a laptop as it can address each of those needs... Its no different with games.

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Once I graduated college and (eventually) got a real engineering job, with the exception of KiCAD (PCB design software), all of my technical stuff has been on company equipment. Hence the two Precision laptops.
OK. The difference is that I am "my employer". So, I can't count on anyone else to provide the tools that I need. Or, maintain them on my behalf (or restock the "office supply" cabinet!). So, it's my $15K that goes into buying the Unisite. Or, a DSO. Or, a CAD program. You think real hard about what you want to buy and how often you want to go throught he pain/expense of "upgrading" (cuz you're unable to "work" when you're dicking around installing software or updates or making backups or...)

[diskless]

Quote:
Different use and application. Thanks but no thanks.
See "live CD".

(sigh) Now, off to interview a client to identify their needs before designing a solution for them. So inconvenient to actually have to drive somewhere instead of phone/email. But, the immediacy of the experience (interacting "live") makes it far more effective than a prolonged email/phone exchange! I guess I'll have to shave... <frown>
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Old 07-30-2018, 07:20 PM   #20
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Default Re: New SSD vs. "New" Laptop

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Originally Posted by goontron View Post
Do they got a laptop with a Xeon CPU?
Dell Precision laptops have Xeon options.

The Precision 3000 series comes standard with a 1366x768 display.
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