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Old 06-29-2020, 08:33 PM   #21
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

I like that 65nm Quad that you have. Makes me wonder if I should try to get another sample of a Quad with the same lithography, even when my brain keeps saying, "45nm".

If you only need to touch the core multi and Vcore, then the toughest test, often would be Linpack. You don't even need to run it more than around 30 minutes to do what an earlier Prime95 would require 12+ hours for.
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Old 06-30-2020, 04:45 AM   #22
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

The good QX6800 is the SLACP G0 version. I haven't tried this because I already own a couple of them, but the QX6850 SLAFN is also G0 stepping but 333fsb and is unloved. If you can manage a BSEL pinmod down to 266fsb you would have an unlocked "QX6600" G0 ( 9x multi.).
Now it's time for me to be honest about this. These are no longer $1000 CPUs. I don't stay within bounds on a few things. I also don't use this old junk for any data sensitive applications. I test with 3x Prime 95 on 4 cores which provides about 80-85% CPU load and seems to provide enough stability in the "real" world of benchmarks and gaming to work well. A QX6700 B3 stepping can be had for $20. But the thermal limits are very low on those and they don't OC well. But to try your hand at this,and develop some cooling mods might be worth the trouble. The 2 core X6800 B2 used to be cheap,and might make some speed on an Opti 745, but prices are way up on these for some unknown reason.
Maybe you guys can tell me how many Watts a QX6800 going 4GHz @ 1.5875V. is using? I actually never tested at that speed because I didn't know how to recover from a crash with those settings saved. But now i have some better cooling options, and Safe Mode will boot w/o TS running so I may look into it more. It may have crashed because
A- It went over 1.6V. which is an Intel hard limit on those computers. I tried 1.6V. it booted but crashed so I dropped Voltage 1 notch, got mY CPUZ valifation and never went back to it.
B- The Dell PSU couldn't make enough Watts on an 18A. 12V.rail. and shut down that rail.
I made a thread at Tom's about overclocking Dells if you want to look into it.
https://forums.tomshardware.com/faq/...uters.2528664/
I also didn't know the trick of using SetFSB to drop the FSB down, add another multi, and then bring the fsb back up for an incremental overclock. I just used whole multipliers back then. This was actually my first overclock, and the Dimension E520 is what I owned so that's what I used. I was struggling at 3.45Ghz when I tried a few mods, and discovered that every time the fan would speed up it crashed. So I wired the fan up to a Molex and gained .100V.(-.050V. starting point, and +.050V. higher limit) at the CPU and went straight to 3.73Ghz "stable", and on to 4GHz momentarily.

Here's a Youtube on grabbing FSB control on a Dimansion 9200 aka XPS410.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X85Wh9o4K4E&t=179s

Last edited by Retrorockit; 06-30-2020 at 05:15 AM..
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Old 07-02-2020, 08:54 AM   #23
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

The reason for the XPS410/9200 for overclocking is they have a 4 phase VRM that's very rare in a Dell. The E520,XPS210/9200c are also this way being different sizes of the same design.
The only other 4 phase VRM 775 Dell I've found is the Optiplex XE Desktop. Which was used for commercial applications such as airport signage, or barcode scanning (it has 24V. USB header for that). These were often built into cabinets with poor airfow. There was even an air duct kit for doing this. I grabbed a few, but haven't run one yet. I have no idea whether or not the 95W Optiplex CPU limit applies to these or not. The G45 chipset and 4 DDR3 RAM slots are hopeful signs. I can't find any userbenchmaeks for it to see what others have done.
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Old 07-05-2020, 09:01 AM   #24
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

I just came across a CPU that was unknown to me that could breath some life, or maybe just extract some fun from Dell BTX Optiplexes, and other bottom feeders.
The mighty Pentium Dual Core (not C2D) SLGYP E6500K
Unlocked Wolfdale 2 core 2M cache 11x266fsb base clock with SSE4 disabled.
Basically a 45nm equivalent of the ancient X6800. Only sold in China. Can be affordable there.
Prices here are ridiculous.
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...6-mhz-fsb.html
Apparently the small cache helps overclocking. CPUZ lumps the locked and unlocked E6500 PDC together but all top 15 overclocks are at least mid 5GHz.
http://valid.x86.fr/256fhm
The E7500 C2D can go 3.67GHz with a BSEL tapemod to 3.67GHz. 11x333f in an Optiplex so this should also. This puts all the 45nm Optiplexes into play for a Throttlestop overclock.
Too bad they disabled SSE4. 2 steps forward, 1 step back. Of course this thing would make a bunch of i3 series look silly.
I haven't published this in the bigger forums. I have few on the way to play with. Might stick one in my Opti 380 and see how it compares the X5470 Xeon swap.

Last edited by Retrorockit; 07-05-2020 at 09:12 AM..
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Old 07-07-2020, 10:53 AM   #25
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

I harvested the Enzotech copper pin fin heatsinks form the badcapped T3400 MB, and epoxied them onto the spare TP412 MB. Then found out they hit the bottom of my super TJ258 XPS heatsink. Just needed to bend the pins over to make some room. I love that about Enzotech. Saved me from myself many times.
I'm looking into heatsinking the back of the MB under the flat soldered VRM Mosfets. Since it a 3 phase MB I'm looking for all the help I can get. But the case sheet metal is raised up to within about 4MM of the MB there. So 3mm heatsinks, or just run metal sinks down to the case itself? This will also add some mechanical suppport to the edge of the MB where it wants to bend due to CPU cooler clamping loads. The 150x50mm bare fan will be sending some air under there. I won't run any cables across there either. The HDD is in a floppy bay. Just a GPU power cable runs across that needs to be up high anyway. HDD cage removed and 120 mm cage fan installed. making some adjustments to the height of the Optiplex cooling shroud legs to work with the bigger holes in the Mid Tower MB. The Opti shroud is needed to match up to the 150mm fan.
Took some metal work to get the XPS heatsink with 8mm pipes in there.
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Old 07-07-2020, 06:51 PM   #26
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

The only Pentium I heard of like that was with Haswell, the G3258. IIRC, just reminded that the G3258 omits AVX, if AVX wasn't laser-cut!

Also, what was basically an "early version of an Core i-series K", would be the Core i7 Extreme 965 on socket 1366. Other than some Core 2s and maybe Chinese-market ones, would be the 965.
And of course back then, usually only ones with the "Extreme" badge, would have an unlocked CPU multiplier.

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Old 07-08-2020, 08:51 AM   #27
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

It was only sold in China. So it's under the radar here. Also it doesn't help that Intel recycled some Core 2 Duo part numbers. There are 2 E6700 CPUs. a 65nm Core 2 Duo, and a 45nm Pentium Dual Core E6700. Very different CPUs.
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Pentiu...ore2-Duo-E6700
This one is the later series E6500K.
https://www.techpowerup.com/101306/p...-5-00-ghz-mark
I've been playing with LGA775 for years and never heard of this one. It just popped up on a list of Pentium Dual Core CPUs.
I've ordered a few of them from China. I hope they aren't all burned out from Bitcoin mining. It's too bad they disabled SSE4. I've reached out to a BIOS modder to see if they just turned off the SSE4 support in the Microcode, or if they actually disabled it on die. I've heard of Intel patching features back in on some CPUs. Fingers crossed.

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Old 07-08-2020, 09:33 PM   #28
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrorockit View Post
It's too bad they disabled SSE4. I've reached out to a BIOS modder to see if they just turned off the SSE4 support in the Microcode, or if they actually disabled it on die. I've heard of Intel patching features back in on some CPUs. Fingers crossed.
Just like I suspect Intel disabled EM64T with a laser-cut on some Pentium 4s...
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Old 07-09-2020, 08:18 AM   #29
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

They were in there disbaling some cache so they probably did it that way. But it doesn't hurt to try things. The cache doesn't bother me. Speed is more important than size for cache, and smaller cache seems to allow higher overclocks. So the unlocked multiplier is worth it. It seems to be a hobbled E7500 with an unlocked multiplier. The E7500 is known to tolerate a fsb tapemod to 3.67GHz on stock Voltage, so that would be the first step for the E6500K.
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Old 07-16-2020, 01:32 AM   #30
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

I've been thrashing away at this. I've got the T3400 MB VRM heatsinked with Enzotech Copper pinfin heatsinks. The XPS 410 I used a few of those on the flat MOSFETs. But based on a suggestion from another Dell modder went to copper sheet metal flags on the vertical ones. This gets cooling on both sides of the MOSFET. I made the flags by cutting strips of copper from cooling fins out of a skived heatsink from an old GPU cooler and folding them in 1/2 around a drill bit so they were self jigging to glue them. The open end is towards the fan.
I also fabricated a couple cooling shrouds to matcth the TJ258 big pipe BTX heatsink to the 150x50mm Delta fan. The first one I modified an older Optiplex shroud to fit the bigger heatsink, but there was no space around the cooler the way the original one was. Probably to keep the heatsink out of the boundry layer of still air, so for the 2nd one I spliced the 150mm wide Optiplex nose onto a wider mid tower heatsink duct. I need to do some cosmetic work where the holes in the top were moved to fit the big pipe heat sink. I'm hesitant to sacrifice another TJ258 heatsink to this because it's a nice looking cooler assembly, and the GFB 1212VHG 2 motor Delta fan drops right in. Wiring up the 8 Wire PWM 3.4A. fan is a chore but for most purposes probably a nicer setup. It also allows a longer GPU if needed. But for airflow (259cfm) and sound level the AFC1512DG is king of the hill. An Optiplex 780 shroud might be a better piece to start with, but I don'y have one so I'm not sure.
I have an XPS410, XPS420, and an XPS430 x48 MB (only) to play with. The T3400 is basically the same as the XPS 420 with 2x GPU support,and some different rear I/O features.
The XPS 430 just adds DDR3 support.
Waiting to hear back from a local hoarder about some 4GB DDR2 x64 modules. Fingers crossed for 1066 speed. The X38 systems can use 16GB of it. I want to get 12GB on board for some GTX1060 6GB GPUs I have sitting around.
The E6500K are on the way from Hong Kong.Also some 3mm thick heatsinks for the back of the T3400 MB.

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Old 07-19-2020, 09:57 PM   #31
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrorockit View Post
Well I just got myself in trouble with a Dell T3400 workstation.
...
When I went to put it together I noticed swollen/leaking caps hiding in between the RAM slots.
Sanyo 820mf 6.3V. caps. Green ones. I see them a few other places also. but those look OK.
Probably Sanyo WF.
Like United Chemicon KZG, they don't like heat and they tend to go bad in storage (though will also go bad with use too, but maybe a little slower.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrorockit View Post
i have 3 spare MB for this ( $14 each) so i looked at them. Rubycon MCZ everywhere. on those. Looking NOS. Swapping the MB is easy. Moving all the heatsinks not so much.
It looks like someone went to a lot of trouble to screw it up.
Instead of moving the heatsinks, why not recap it.
In fact, you could do it one better: grab some electrolytic polymer caps and get rid of any bad caps. Not only will the new polys have better specs, but they will also tolerate a lot more heat, so you can rest assured you won't have to recap this mobo again in the future.

I have seen Rubycon MCZ also go bad in these Dell BTX systems - typically near hot parts, like chipset, CPU, and low-airflow areas. So even those mobos with Rubycon MCZ caps may fail at some point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrorockit View Post
Maybe you guys can tell me how many Watts a QX6800 going 4GHz @ 1.5875V. is using?
...
B- The Dell PSU couldn't make enough Watts on an 18A. 12V.rail. and shut down that rail.
If the PSU shut down due to over-current on the 12V rail, then that means your system was pulling over 216 Watts. Assuming you were using only the on-board GPU in the system and just had a single HDD, then the CPU was probably drawing/dissipating close to 200 Watts. If you had a GPU in there, then substract that from the 216W figure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrorockit View Post
Here's a Youtube on grabbing FSB control on a Dimansion 9200 aka XPS410.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X85Wh9o4K4E&t=179s
Thanks for sharing that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrorockit View Post
The T3400 is basically the same as the XPS 420 with 2x GPU support,and some different rear I/O features.
Whichever has the PS/2 ports, that's the one I'll always pick.
If I can't use my favorite old clicky PS/2 keyboards on a PC, then it ain't for me.

Last edited by momaka; 07-19-2020 at 09:58 PM..
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Old 07-22-2020, 06:47 PM   #32
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

I don't have the skill to recap it myself. I have 3 more TP412 MB @$14 each so I'll just do that.

My E520 was purchased because it came with a discrete GPU, and had a GTX750Ti at the time. The CPU may have been on a separate rail from the MB header. Moving the fans to a Molex helped a lot. But I didn't understand PSU rails back then. I was just thrashing around to get an overclock because "it's my computer and I should be able to do what I want with it".
I agree that PS2 is better. Dell must think so too because it stayed on in the workstations.
I was hoping my hoarder would come through for me, but he left town, so I ordered some NOS Dell DDR2 800 4GB modules. Not getting 1066 is OK because the x38 chipset straps to 800 speed when you activate the 400fsb anyway. I also found another TJ258 XPS 720 heatsink for $20 so I will probably make another big fan conversion just for the T3400 since it has more room in the front of the case than the XPS with the side air intakes.

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Old 07-24-2020, 08:23 AM   #33
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

Still looking for 4GB DDR2 800 512x64 non ECC UDIMMs. 1066 speed would be nice! My vendor cancelled my order because it was AMD x128 RAM. I called ahead to check but apparently the person I spoke to didn't understand the question. My hoarder is MIA at the moment. I think he goes to flea markets.
I put a post in the WTB section here. But there seem to be plenty of people lurking on this thread maybe someone can help out?

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Old 07-26-2020, 07:02 PM   #34
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

Quote:
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Still looking for 4GB DDR2 800 512x64 non ECC UDIMMs.
...
But there seem to be plenty of people lurking on this thread maybe someone can help out?
Well, all I can say is I don't have any and never even heard of 4 GB DDR2 that isn't registered - at least any that is compatible with Intel. I've heard there is 4 GB DDR2 high-density memory that only certain AMD chipsets/CPUs can take?
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:11 AM   #35
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

I may have some in my supply. I have some NOS Nemix RAM 4GB DDR2 800 modules..
I called them and they mave no idea if it's low density or not.LOL!
I have an XPS 420 that runs. I'll have to give them a try and see what happens.
But yes 4GB was late in the game, and low density was old tech. So aside from the FBDIMMs they're hard to find. They do exist @ $55 each.
The mid towers have been piling up in the closet because I needed to reconfigure my workspace to use them. But I've made room for them now. When the E6500K get here I will probably overclock my $20 Optiplex 380 with one and see how that compares to the X5470 Xeon swap that's in it now. IDK if the modded Xeon BIOS will support a QX9650 or not. Some people say it should. But no confirmed instances of anything beyond the 120W Xeon.
The E6500K should go to 3.67GHz with the old Q6600 BSEL tapemod that the E7500 uses. Then use the unlocked multiplier from there. All of the top 15 overclocks at CPUZ are 5GHz for the E6500. The E7500 3.67 posts higher single thread scores than my 3.33GHz Xeon at Geekbench. I'll heatsink the VRMs on the Opti 380 and see what kind of numbers it can make.
I'm very happy with my TJ258 XPS720 heatsink purchase, For $20 I was expecting used, but it's NOS in the box!

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Old 07-28-2020, 03:27 PM   #36
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

I had a QX9650 in my hand so I decided to try the Opti 380 before it got permanently installed in something else. QX9650 didn't work. The 360/380 are the only 2 Optis I know of that can run the 120W Xeons. Most stop at 95W except the 745 which will gp 130W but not 333fsb, or 45nm. I did try my old favorite heatsink before the TJ258, the T9303. With the big fan turned up it runs P95 small fft @ 54*C. 58* on auto. I threw some heatsinks on the VRM for good luck. Just waiting for the E6500K to arrive. The E6500K was Intels answer to the AMD Phenom X2 Black label CPUs.
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Old 07-28-2020, 05:26 PM   #37
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

OK I'm making some real progress here. Fired up the XPS 420 with a stock fan TJ258 cooler, some small Alphacool copper heatsinks on the VRM.
First thing is the nemix RAM 4GB DDR2 modules ARE low density and run just fine. I have 12GB DDR2 800. Enough to run the GTX1060 6GB GPU.
Setfsb ran the fsb up to 374MHz. There may be more but I quit at that because I didn't know how far i could push the RAM speed.
11.5x374= [email protected] 1.45V.
I may do the pinmod to 400fsb which gets the RAM back to 800, and start over from there. I have plenty of DDR2 1066 but only 2 GB modules which limits me to 8GB. I'll definitely be using those in the XPS 410.
I just ran the light 30 second benchmark in Throttlestop. No real stability testing, or fine tuning the Voltage. The stock fan is letting it hit 80*. But I know the cure for that.
It's on the work bench outside. about 90*F. ambient here in FLA. and no internet so no validation to show yet. But it's doing what I expected.
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Old 07-29-2020, 07:22 AM   #38
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

I did a little more testing 4.3Ghz 4 core isn't going to happen.
4.15 is good though. That's the "normal" overclock for these. The 150x50mm fan and TJ 258 heatsink works great 70*C. under CPUZ stress test. I worked the Voltage down to some more realistic numbers. I need to get the 400fsb pinmod involved. Then 4.2 GHz will come at 10.5x400. Probably a realistic goal for 4 cores.
These are my goals for this.
Base clock will be 9x400=3.6GHz a nice setting for daily use, and a step up from my existing X5470 Xeon swap.
10.5x 400=4.2 for gaming and benchmarking.
11x400=4.4Ghz by overclocking just 2 cores for single thread games.
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Old 07-30-2020, 03:05 PM   #39
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

how hot does a 4 ghz (400x10) xeon x5470 get? interesting to compare a 4 ghz xeon x5470 with a 4 ghz qx9650. i wonder if the server chips are better binned than the extreme desktop chips? even more interesting to see which one lasts longer overclocked. im putting my money on the xeon x5470 because its a 24/7 server chip, so its manufactured with more durable materials. any other bets?
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Old 07-31-2020, 07:37 AM   #40
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Default Re: Overclockable Dell computers.

The X5470 Xeon had a later E0 stepping. The QX9650 was C0,C1 so the Xeon would be newer tech at some level. The C1 has a different CPUID# for some reason.
But the X38, and X48 chipsets that allow the 400fsb pinmod in the Dells don't support the Xeon swap.
I actually wanted to try a reverse Xeon mod, and put the tape on a couple QX9650 and see if I could get dual unlocked CPU function on a Dell T7400 workstation. Electrically it's "true". Definitely a long shot. I couldn't gather enough T7400 junk to try it. But the Dell T7400 supports the 400fsb mod, so a pair of X5470 @ 10x400 fsb would certainly out perform a single QX9650 in multithreaded apps. But getting control of the Voltage on a locked BIOS w/o the unlocked CPU requires a hardmod that some of you soldering iron maestros could easily perform.
There are also old school VID pinmods to consider.

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