Badcaps.net Forum
Go Back   Badcaps Forums > Troubleshooting Hardware & Devices and Electronics Theory > Troubleshooting Power Supplies and Power Supply Design
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
Thread Tools
Old 05-03-2020, 11:15 PM   #3081
Th3_uN1Qu3
Believe in
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
City & State: Bucharest
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 5,368
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodpsusearch View Post
So, with a full recap to upgrade output filters to 2x 2200uF and coil, replacing primary caps with 2x 680uF, primary transistors replacement with 13009, and secondary rectifiers of at least 30A for each output this could do 300W max.
It will do 300W. The limiting factor is always the efficiency (or lack thereof). 3.3V and 5V diodes can be left alone since those rails do not see much use in modern computers. Use at least 60A diode for 12V and it should be fine.

The reason why you see such a huge overrating of diodes in brand name PSUs is that the higher the current rating of the diode, the lower its voltage drop. Lower voltage drop, higher efficiency. And with heatsinks as flimsy as that, you'll want to squeeze as much efficiency out of it as you can, so overrate your output rectifiers a lot, and also swap the output inductor if you have a larger one in your junk box. Upgrading the primary transistors will do nothing if the secondary is inefficient, because these transistors do not burn out because of overcurrent, the reason is always thermal runaway. If you can find one that fits, replacing the primary heatsink with a larger one is going to do more good than replacing the transistors with higher rated ones.

The reason these pieces of junk blow up at 250-300W output is the very low efficiency due to inadequate output filtering, high voltage drop in output rectifiers and thin wiring in the output inductor. Improving the efficiency of the secondary side makes the stress on the primary lower for the same output power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodpsusearch View Post
The biggest letdown is that it doesn't have even a single Sata connector and of course no PCI-e or 8pin ATX 12V connector.
Solder in extra cables.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS in CA View Post
Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
A working TV? How boring!
Th3_uN1Qu3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2020, 01:41 AM   #3082
Dan81
SNES-powered
 
Dan81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
City & State: Romania
My Country: Bacau
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 1,149
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

200-250W max is what it will do. That is not a real 35 transformer, neither a 33 size. It's a 28 size transformer. Notice how it doesn't cover all the space where the transformer goes. 33 and real 35 transformers will cover the WHOLE space I've marked with red.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg transformer.jpg (953.1 KB, 36 views)
__________________
Main rig:
Gigabyte B75M-D3H
Core i5-3470 3.60GHz
Gigabyte Geforce GTX650 1GB GDDR5
16GB DDR3-1600
Samsung SH-224AB DVD-RW
FSP Bluestorm II 500W (recapped)
120GB ADATA + 2x Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB
Delux MG760 case
Dan81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2020, 07:17 PM   #3083
goodpsusearch
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
City & State: Thessaloniki, Greece
My Country: Greece
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,978
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Th3_uN1Qu3 View Post
It will do 300W. The limiting factor is always the efficiency (or lack thereof). 3.3V and 5V diodes can be left alone since those rails do not see much use in modern computers. Use at least 60A diode for 12V and it should be fine.

The reason why you see such a huge overrating of diodes in brand name PSUs is that the higher the current rating of the diode, the lower its voltage drop. Lower voltage drop, higher efficiency. And with heatsinks as flimsy as that, you'll want to squeeze as much efficiency out of it as you can, so overrate your output rectifiers a lot, and also swap the output inductor if you have a larger one in your junk box. Upgrading the primary transistors will do nothing if the secondary is inefficient, because these transistors do not burn out because of overcurrent, the reason is always thermal runaway. If you can find one that fits, replacing the primary heatsink with a larger one is going to do more good than replacing the transistors with higher rated ones.

The reason these pieces of junk blow up at 250-300W output is the very low efficiency due to inadequate output filtering, high voltage drop in output rectifiers and thin wiring in the output inductor. Improving the efficiency of the secondary side makes the stress on the primary lower for the same output power.
Very interesting info here, thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
200-250W max is what it will do. That is not a real 35 transformer, neither a 33 size. It's a 28 size transformer. Notice how it doesn't cover all the space where the transformer goes. 33 and real 35 transformers will cover the WHOLE space I've marked with red.
True, but it's taller than 33 size and thinner than 35 size.
goodpsusearch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2020, 10:42 AM   #3084
momaka
Badcaps Veteran
 
momaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
City & State: VA (NoVA)
My Country: U.S.A.
Line Voltage: 120 VAC, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 9,475
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodpsusearch View Post
I also got some other stuff for free that I have been struggling to find some free time to try to fix them, including a 32" 16:9 Sony CRT TV...
Nice! Those TVs are pretty nice, actually.
If it's not working and you're looking for a specific part for the power supply, let me know. I have saved several PCBs from Sony TVs from that era (none were widescreen, but many have similarly-designed power supplies and thus ICs on them), and chances are I might have it (like the PWM controller that likes to go bad, for example... I forget its part name now.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodpsusearch View Post
Premier DR-8460BTX (MAX 450W)
...
The biggest letdown is that it doesn't have even a single Sata connector and of course no PCI-e or 8pin ATX 12V connector.
Yeah, I don't know why some cheapo PSUs continue to put so much old-style Molex connectors and just a few SATA (if any.) Granted this Premier PSU is old... but I'm pretty sure when it was sold, SATA was around for a while. So Deer should have put some on there.

As for 8-pin EPS 12V connector - I wouldn't put one on this PSU, lest someone happen to acquire it and think it can run a power-hungry 150+ Watt TDP CPU. A 4-pin 12V CPU connector and *maybe* a single 6-pin PCI-E is all I'd add to a unit like that... that is, if the 12V rail is even stable enough under any moderate load. Upgrading the 12V rectifier would surely help, but definitely consider replacing the main output toroid inductor too. The tiny one that is currently in there will likely start overheating with a high load.

Other than that, this PSU is one of the better Deer/Premiers, for sure.
momaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 02:00 PM   #3085
momaka
Badcaps Veteran
 
momaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
City & State: VA (NoVA)
My Country: U.S.A.
Line Voltage: 120 VAC, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 9,475
Post BFG Tech BFGR550WGSPSU [PCB M/N: LW6550SE Rev. K]

Different day, different PSU…
For today’s consideration is a BFG Tech “550 Watt” ATX power supply, model BFGR550WGSPSU.





It was a relatively inexpensive eBay score. I actually got two identical units from the same seller, though one was in considerably worse shape (that one will be posted another time). Both were sold “for parts or repair”. The price didn’t have anything to do with why I got these PSUs. Rather it was the curiosity of what’s inside them. In the auction, I could barely make out from the pictures that one of the PSUs possibly had bad caps. And that’s the primary reason I went for both.

So the above… let’s call it unit #1.

It looks shiny, modern, and definitely capable of 550 Watts, yes?
Unfortunately, one or more of the above statements are not true. Which one(s)? Well, the PSU case does have a nice black mirror finish, I’ll give it that. And with the 140 mm fan, an EPS-12V connector, and two PCI-E 6-pin power connectors, one might conclude this is indeed a modern PSU. However, look at the first case picture above again. See that input voltage selector switch? That’s a dead giveaway we are dealing with a PSU with no Active PFC. In my book, that’s usually a good thing, as PSUs without APFC tend to have less problems with primary caps going bad (or in general, with anything on the primary, save for bad startup caps, of course.) However, PSUs without APFC also tend to use older and less-efficient topologies (though rare exceptions do exist.) Thus, we are probably not dealing with a very modern unit. In any case, the bigger concern is the fact that the label states the maximum output as “peak”. So what’s the continuous power rating then? I guess we will have to open the unit and see what’s inside to get an idea.

Tops off!


The above 2 pictures should give a good overall idea. First off, we have 3 transformers and two input caps with a big polypropylene film cap on the primary – that’s not very modern. In fact, that’s our long-time friend, the good old Half-bridge. Output-wise, we see two large output toroids and two smaller toroids, suggesting group-regulated design with a mag-amp –generated 3.3V rail.
Welp… there goes our statement about it being modern. It’s an ancient design… but a well-done one, it seems. Frankly, I personally don’t mind older topologies like this. After all, half-bridge PSUs can perform decently and be fairly efficient too, if done right.

What bugs me more is the 550 Watt “peak” rating on the label. Looking at the marks on the second picture above, the PCB says “350-450W”. I can’t quite tell if that means this PCB is capable of handling models rated from 350 to 450 Watts or if it means 350 Watts continuous and 450W “peak” and the 550W on the label being a complete lie.

According to a quick search on the PCB model number (LW6550SE Rev. K), this PSU was made by HuntKey. Going by that and looking at reviews for similar HuntKey-built PSUs suggests this PSU may be capable of 450 Watts continuous and really peak up to 550W… or just a 350W PSU capable of 450W peak for a minute or so (JG tested one a similar-looking HuntKey and it blew up after 1 minute of load at 450 Watts.) So what’s your guess on this one?

Next, some specs about the components:
- Main transformer is 40 mm wide (i.e. “ERL40”.) 5VSB and driver transformers are standard 19 mm with proper height (not the cheapo short ones we see in gutless PSUs.)
- BJT’s on the primary side are a pair of 2SC3320 in TO-3P case.
- 5VSB is handled by a FSDM0265r PWM-FET IC – so no oldschool 2-transistor circuit here, at least.
- Input EMI/RFI filtering is adequate enough, as is the surge suppression (2x MOVs)
- Input caps are a pair of 200V, 1000 uF Teapo
- Heatsinks are pretty thick… though not very tall, due to the use of an overhead 140 mm fan. Not a whole lot of fins on them either, so they are not very good, IMO. I would have rather seen bigger/taller heatsinks with an 80 mm fan used instead.
- Bridge rectifier is a T15KB80, capable of 15 Amps @ 100C Tc with a heatsink… but only 3.2 Amps without @ 25C Ta. So it will probably run very hot at max PSU load and may not actually be adequate for the PSU at 120V AC line.

With that said, let’s move to the secondary side.

The secondary side is a bit cramped, IMO. However, the output rails have adequate filtering (2x 2200 uF caps for each major rail.) The main output toroid as well as the 3.3V toroid are large and use thick wire. In terms of design, this group regulated setup unfortunately does NOT use the newer method of generating the 12V rail, where a center-tapped 7V rail is superimposed on top of the rectified 5V rail (this reduces efficiency slightly, due to any current draw on the 12V rail also having to pass through the 5V rectifier, but it increases regulation and stability considerably.) Instead, this PSU uses the classic separate 3.3V/5V rail and 12V rail windings. On a similar note, the 12V rail uses two 20 Amp Schottky rectifiers in parallel. IMO, that’s not really ideal. If the PSU was built with a single 30 Amp rectifier or the two 20 Amp rectifiers were connected, such that the two diodes in each rectifier package are paralleled and handle only one tap of the 12V rail at a time, I think the 12V rail would have been able to handle more current (and is something I may try modding eventually.) Another item I would nick at this PSU is the -12V rail: although not really used anymore and not very important, I don’t like the fact that this PSU uses only a single 220 uF cap to filter it. Luckily, there is enough space around the -12V rail cap to fit an 8 mm cap (probably 470 to 1000 uF would be better.) This is another item I might mod.

Last but not least, I’m sure everyone has noticed the bad Teapo caps at this point. Probably every one of these units is destined with that fate. The other non-Teapo caps are FCon and KSC (though other units may come with similar dubious brands.) Moreover, it’s worth noting that the 140 mm cooling fan doesn’t have a sheet of plastic towards the back side to create better airflow inside the PSU. As such, airflow in the PSU is probably not optimal and likely contributes/accelerates the fate of the crap caps.

Now let’s move on to the solder/bottom side…

The soldering quality of the BGFR550WGSPSU is surprisingly good. I suppose that shouldn’t be too surprising, since Huntkey is also now a fairly big OEM PSU builder for major desktop brands like Lenovo, Acer, and etc. I didn’t find any large solder balls, long leads, or anything that could have caused a problem down the line.

And for the finish, we have the fan:

Yate Loon D14SM-12 (L-S04) sleeve bearing fan, rated for 0.7 Amps @ 12V. That’s quite powerful. Unfortunately, the speed controller of the PSU is not very good (haven’t traced it yet, though), as the fan sounds rather loud even when the PSU is not loaded. Something tells me I’ll have to mod that too.


Parts list………
ICs:
SG6105d (PWM controller, secondary side), AS339 (quad op-amp for handling some/all secondary-side protections), and DM0265r (5VSB PWM+FET combo, primary side)

Wiring:
* Input: 600V, 18 AWG
* Output: 300V, 18 AWG, except SATA and Molex HDD connectors after the first connector in every chain (20 AWG)
* Output connectors: 20+4-pin ATX, 4+4-pin EPS-12V, one 6+2 pin PCI-E, one –pin PCI-E, 4x SATA, 4x Molex drive connectors, 1x floppy connector.

Primary Side:
* Input Filtering: 1x 0.47 uF and 1x 0.1 uF X2-class caps, 2x 1 nF + 2x 2.2 nF Y2-class caps, 3x CM chokes
* Input protection: inrush current limiter, 2x MOVs for surge protection across primary caps., fuse
* T15KB80 bridge rectifier
* 2x Teapo LXK, 200V, 1000, 25x45 mm, 85C caps
* 1x FCon KM, 50V, 47 uF, 6.3x11 mm as “startup” cap
* 2x 2SC3320 (TO-3P) BJTs for main PS
* 2x Teapo SC, 50V, 6.8 uF, 5x11 mm for BJT drive circuit

Secondary Side:
* 5VSB
*** 1x FCon GF, 16V, 1000 uF, 10x20 mm before PI coil
*** 1x Teapo SC, 10V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm after PI coil
*** 3 Amp(?) schottky diode for rectification
*** PI coil: 7-turn, 20-AWG(?), 5 mm core
*** Load resistor: 1x 1.8-KOhm, 1/8 Watt, SMD

* 3.3V Rail
*** 1x BH, 10V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm before PI coil
*** 1x Teapo SC, 10V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm after PI coil
*** 2x STPS2045ct schottky rectifiers in parallel
*** PI coil: 5.5-turn, 16-AWG, 4 mm core
*** Load resistor: 8x 100-Ohm parallel SMD resistors (12.8 Ohm load total)

* 5V Rail
*** 2x Teapo SC, 10V, 2200 uF, 10x20 mm with PI coil in between
*** 1x MOSPEC S40d40c schottky rectifier
*** PI coil: 5.5-turn, 16-AWG, 4 mm core
*** Load resistor: 7x 220-Ohm parallel SMD resistors (31.4 Ohm load total)

* 12V Rail
*** 2x Teapo SC, 16V, 2200 uF, 10x30 mm before PI coils
*** 2x STPS20s100 schottky rectifiers in parallel
*** PI coils (2x): 6.5-turn, 16-AWG, 5 mm core
*** Load resistor: 6x 1.2-KOhm parallel SMD resistors (200 Ohm load total)

* -12V Rail
*** 1x FCon GF, 16V, 100 uF, 6.3x11 mm after PI coil
*** 2x or 3x FR158 diodes for rectification
*** PI coil: multi-layer, multi-turn in shrinkwrap
*** Load resistor: 4x 330-Ohm + 1x 1.2-KOhm parallel SMD resistors (258.8 Ohm load total)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BFG Tech BFGR550WGSPSU (1).jpg (134.2 KB, 143 views)
File Type: jpg BFG Tech BFGR550WGSPSU (2).jpg (115.0 KB, 142 views)
File Type: jpg BFG Tech BFGR550WGSPSU (3).jpg (203.0 KB, 170 views)
File Type: jpg BFG Tech BFGR550WGSPSU (4).jpg (341.1 KB, 129 views)
File Type: jpg BFG Tech BFGR550WGSPSU (5).jpg (266.0 KB, 132 views)
File Type: jpg BFG Tech BFGR550WGSPSU (6).jpg (131.8 KB, 140 views)
File Type: jpg BFG Tech BFGR550WGSPSU (8).jpg (386.4 KB, 125 views)
File Type: jpg BFG Tech BFGR550WGSPSU (9).jpg (62.5 KB, 140 views)

Last edited by momaka; 06-11-2020 at 02:01 PM..
momaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 05:01 PM   #3086
TechGeek
Computer Geek
 
TechGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
City & State: Nowhereland, Texas
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120/2/[email protected]
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 1,598
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Seems like a pretty solidly built unit for 300W, just has cheap caps, a cheap fan controller, an oversight in heatsinking and airflow, and cheap caps. With some simple modifications, this could be a pretty strong 300W PSU.
__________________
Don't buy those $10 PSU "specials". They fail, and they have taken whole computers with them.

For computer parts, go to Newegg
OR
Amazon.

For electrical stuff(pushbuttons, capacitors, etc), use Digikey
OR
Mouser.

My computer doubles as a space heater.

Windows 10? Only if you like forced, buggy updates and 24/7 telemetry.

Samsung = Seagate = Seatrash = Trashgate
Don't buy Seagate drives. Don't use Seagate drives. If you have any in service right now, make plans to replace them ASAP.


TechGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2020, 10:48 AM   #3087
goodpsusearch
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
City & State: Thessaloniki, Greece
My Country: Greece
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,978
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I have a modern Huntkey condition : never used, I will try to post pictures of it sometime.

Thank you momaka for this detailed presentation. I would fix it and keep it.
goodpsusearch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2020, 11:22 AM   #3088
goodpsusearch
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
City & State: Thessaloniki, Greece
My Country: Greece
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,978
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Got this power supply from work. The power button failed.

It was the type with the red light to indicate that the psu is powered.

This psu was in storage and as it seems it was sitting on the button. That may have caused the problem.

The button would turn to ON but during computer operation it would suddenly loose contact and the psu turn off.

I replaced the button with an ordinary black one without a light, taken from a gutless psu.

I have posted this model again while I was serving in the army.

Chieftec GPS-500AB

Delta Electronics is the OEM.

Unit is heavily overbuilt and I believe it can do more on 12V compared to the label.

It is also true triple rail on 12V.

the fan is AFB1212H ball bearing Delta Electronics. I even found datasheet.

Posting some pics for you guys here.

mosfets for pfc and main psu switching: 4x 20N60C3

3845B PWM IC

UCC3818N PFC IC

TNY268PN 5VSB IC
Attached Images
File Type: jpg label.jpg (525.5 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg fan.jpg (315.9 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg 1.jpg (561.7 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (411.7 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg 3.jpg (431.9 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg 4.jpg (371.9 KB, 16 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf AFB1212H (Chieftec GPS-500AB) fan.pdf (428.5 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by goodpsusearch; 06-12-2020 at 11:23 AM..
goodpsusearch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2020, 06:02 PM   #3089
momaka
Badcaps Veteran
 
momaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
City & State: VA (NoVA)
My Country: U.S.A.
Line Voltage: 120 VAC, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 9,475
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGeek View Post
Seems like a pretty solidly built unit for 300W, just has cheap caps, a cheap fan controller, an oversight in heatsinking and airflow, and cheap caps. With some simple modifications, this could be a pretty strong 300W PSU.
Yup, I started a thread about it here:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=85301
Already recapped unit #1 posted above and it's working well. Unit #2 is operational but needs its output toroid re-wound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodpsusearch View Post
Got this power supply from work. The power button failed.

It was the type with the red light to indicate that the psu is powered.

This psu was in storage and as it seems it was sitting on the button. That may have caused the problem.

The button would turn to ON but during computer operation it would suddenly loose contact and the psu turn off.

I replaced the button with an ordinary black one without a light, taken from a gutless psu.
By power button, do you mean rocker switch on the PSU?

I've only seen cheap or extensively used rocker switches fail. Typically the rocking spring inside gets loose, and then the contacts no longer make good connections. That said, I have fixed a few cheap rocker switches by taking them apart and bending / re-tensioning the contact springs. Don't know how long those fixes held, though, because the person that asked me to do it now lives far away and I really lost contact with them, so I have no idea. But hey, it was a free fix (in exchange for junk PC parts), after all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodpsusearch View Post
Chieftec GPS-500AB

Delta Electronics is the OEM.
Ha! As soon as I saw the Delta fan, I had a feeling this would be a Delta-built PSU.

Nicely done, indeed. It will do its rated power, I'm sure (if not more, like you said.)

Not entirely excited about the Ltec caps, and the unit may need a recap in the future. The Samxon primary might be alright, though, since it is rated for 450V and not just 400V. In PSUs with APFC, I think 400V -rated input caps are cutting it too close to the limit, and that's why more of those fail (and this seems to be regardless of cap brand.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodpsusearch View Post
I have posted this model again while I was serving in the army.
o.0
I wonder if this is why we haven't seen you for a while here.
momaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2020, 02:52 PM   #3090
goodpsusearch
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
City & State: Thessaloniki, Greece
My Country: Greece
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,978
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post

By power button, do you mean rocker switch on the PSU?
Yeap, that's it. It was the version with the light bulb inside:
https://grobotronics.com/images/thum...switch_red.jpg

Switching from ON to OFF or OFF to ON didn't "click" anymore and it would loose contact from the computer's vibrations.

After removing it from the psu I tore it apart but couldn't find out much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post

o.0
I wonder if this is why we haven't seen you for a while here.
That was back in 2013. Serving the army is not voluntary here, in Greece. Every male has to go.

It has to do with the problems we have with Turkey, that have been ongoing for more than a hundred years, unfortunately.

Last edited by goodpsusearch; 06-20-2020 at 04:03 PM..
goodpsusearch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020, 12:52 PM   #3091
goodpsusearch
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
City & State: Thessaloniki, Greece
My Country: Greece
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,978
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Innovator 350W Max (Linkworld)

This is a small factor power supply that has been taken out of a mini pc case.

The fan stopped and the former IT guy, replaced it with another one, but in the end the power supply met its fate and stopped working.

They very poorly decided to put inside the mini PC case an AMD Phenom II X4 965.
Typical TDP: 125 W , this thing gets hot!

The power supply is not gutless, but seems to be designed for older non 12V hungry platforms.

Just look at the label, 16A @ 12V is just not enough for today's standards.

Th input filter on the AC plug has some long uncut leads that make me uncomfortable.

There are burn marks all over the PCB, especially on what appears to be the snubber network of 12V rail.

The area around the group regulation toroid coil got quite toasty too

I was happy to find the psu uses 2x13009 NPN transistors but at the same time, the main transformer is tiny, it's not even an EL33 size. How did this thing manage to power the AMD cpu?

The heatsinks are ok for 300W with large surface area and a lot of fins and not ultra thin.

The IC is SD6109 PWM/supervisor combo.

S20C40C @ 3.3V
STPS30S45CW @ 5V
STPS20S100CT @ 12V

The soldering is very good as always with Linkworld.

This is going to be used for parts. Not worth troubleshooting and repairing
Attached Images
File Type: jpg label.jpg (216.3 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 1.jpg (321.1 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (642.2 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg 3.jpg (373.7 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 4.jpg (362.6 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg 5.jpg (358.4 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 6.jpg (445.5 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 7.jpg (535.6 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 8.jpg (538.4 KB, 7 views)
goodpsusearch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020, 08:37 PM   #3092
eccerr0r
Solder Sloth
 
eccerr0r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
City & State: CO
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 4,950
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Some stuff got mighty toasty in there!
eccerr0r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2020, 04:36 PM   #3093
PeteS in CA
Badcaps Veteran
 
PeteS in CA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
City & State: San Jose, CA
My Country: USA, Unsure of Planet
Line Voltage: 120VAC, 60Hz & 115VAC, 400Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 2,938
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

The heatsinks and TO-3P 13009s make 300W-350W seem credible. But the 470uF input lytics and outputs inductor are more realistic for 250W, and that main transformer maybe more like 200W. At least you don't have to worry whether the Y-caps are safety agency approved ...

The thing is a mish-mosh of substantial and cheap-out. It's almost 11 years old, so somebody got decent life from it.
__________________
PeteS in CA

Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.

Where might is right
There is no right.
- Sophocles in "Antigone"
****************************
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
- J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
****************************
To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
PeteS in CA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2020, 04:11 PM   #3094
goodpsusearch
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
City & State: Thessaloniki, Greece
My Country: Greece
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,978
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Another Enlight 300Watt psu.

Very old power supply, this was made back in 2002 and still worked. No bulging caps. Even the terrible Jenpo capacitors seem to be ok.

This is the worst design I have come across though, in terms of 12V cpu support. The voltage regulation is terrible and the psu oscillates heavily when it powers a 12V heavy cpu such as Pentium D.

I really like the fan with the 3 pin header that can be connected to the mb and get RPM readings. The fan is ball bearing or high quality sleeve bearing as I have never met a seized or noisy one.

The passive PFC coil uses 4 cables instead of 2 and it is connected right after the bridge rectifier. Not sure how this works.

The soldering is excelent and I found that there is some work from the factory on the back of the PCB, probably to improve the voltage regulation? who knows?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1.jpg (477.1 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (417.7 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 3.jpg (603.1 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 4.jpg (472.9 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg 5.jpg (498.6 KB, 8 views)

Last edited by goodpsusearch; 07-03-2020 at 04:12 PM..
goodpsusearch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2020, 09:31 PM   #3095
momaka
Badcaps Veteran
 
momaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
City & State: VA (NoVA)
My Country: U.S.A.
Line Voltage: 120 VAC, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 9,475
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodpsusearch View Post
Another Enlight 300Watt psu.
...
This is the worst design I have come across though, in terms of 12V cpu support. The voltage regulation is terrible and the psu oscillates heavily when it powers a 12V heavy cpu such as Pentium D.
Hey, that sounds and looks familiar!

I have a TASK TK-930TX that acts similarly with a heavy 12V load (and also not great with a heavy 5V load either.) I posted about it here:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...postcount=2735

I think the OEM is Sirtec, thought not 100% sure anymore. The 3-pin fan, 5VSB circuit arrangement, Teapo and Jenpo output caps, and Teapo LXK input caps I think confirms yours is also made by the same OEM, even though the PSU appears different. Mine also had really good soldering too.

Guess it shows that good quality parts used does not always mean good quality PSU... or at least not a well-designed PSU, anyways. I wonder how many hours yours has on the clock. Maybe it worked all these years, despite the oscillating 12V rail... or maybe the PC it was in was unstable, and as such wasn't used much and kept in storage for a long time??

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodpsusearch View Post
I really like the fan with the 3 pin header that can be connected to the mb and get RPM readings. The fan is ball bearing or high quality sleeve bearing as I have never met a seized or noisy one.
Yup, I think Sirtec usually uses good quality fans. The TK-930TX came with a Protechnic Magic. Sure that's no Nidec, Panaflo, or Sanyo Denki... but it's still a very decent fan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodpsusearch View Post
Innovator 350W Max (Linkworld)

This is a small factor power supply that has been taken out of a mini pc case.

The fan stopped and the former IT guy, replaced it with another one, but in the end the power supply met its fate and stopped working.

They very poorly decided to put inside the mini PC case an AMD Phenom II X4 965.
Typical TDP: 125 W , this thing gets hot!

The power supply is not gutless, but seems to be designed for older non 12V hungry platforms.

Just look at the label, 16A @ 12V is just not enough for today's standards.

Th input filter on the AC plug has some long uncut leads that make me uncomfortable.

There are burn marks all over the PCB, especially on what appears to be the snubber network of 12V rail.

The area around the group regulation toroid coil got quite toasty too

I was happy to find the psu uses 2x13009 NPN transistors but at the same time, the main transformer is tiny, it's not even an EL33 size. How did this thing manage to power the AMD cpu?
Wow, that is quite amazing that it worked with such a load.
Though, this is not the first time I have seen a gutless Linkworld power a high-end PC and not explode/blow up. I took one out of a Costo pre-build PC many years ago, and it was tasked with powering a Core 2 Quad CPU. Intel claims many of their regular C2Q's are all 95W TDP CPUs, but Intel's idea of TDP is not exactly the same as AMD's. For AMD, TDP rating = maximum power the CPU can draw/dissipate. For Intel, it's an average under high load, of sorts. As such, a fully-stressed C2Q can draw up to 130-150 Watts.

In any case, it's still interesting to see a fairly gutless PSU still power a high-power PC. Quite a contrast from the Sirtec PSUs (which have good parts but can't power jack without oscillating.)

Also, note that while Linkworld may have rated the 12V rail on your PSU at 16A, the rectifier is rated for 20 Amps and the PSU uses half-bridge topology. This means, the secondary rectifier could indeed be pushed up to 20 Amps, if the primary can provide it and secondary doesn't go too out of spec to trip a protection. Or in your case, it appears the overheated snubber RC circuit clearly is indicating the 12V was pushed near it's limit.

Moreover, I'm just not sure how much more power the main transformer could push out. When I saw your first shot of the PSU from above, I could swear the main PS transformer looked like a real ERL35. But then I saw the side pics and... yeah, it ain't no ERL35 for sure . Top-wise, it looks to be the correct size for ERL35. It's the shortness that makes it rather wimpy (i.e. they probably had to put fewer and/or thinner turns of wire for both the primary and secondary in order to squeeze all of the windings in there.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodpsusearch View Post
This is going to be used for parts. Not worth troubleshooting and repairing
Yeah, it's provided a good number of years of useful life already, as PeteS mentioned. Probably doing the right thing to retire it and use it for parts. The 5VSB looks a bit discolored and not very happy, so that's even more of a reason to keep it retired now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eccerr0r View Post
Some stuff got mighty toasty in there!
Looks like the 5VSB (which is fairly typical for Linkworld PSUs with a 2-transistor design, despite not having a critical cap) and also the output toroid inductor.

On that note, I wonder if the position placement of the CM output toroid had anything to do with the overheating (besides running the 125W AMD X4 CPU, lol.) I regularly see Linkworld use these tiny PCBs in all kinds of cases - some with 120 mm overhead fan and some with 80 mm back fan. I wouldn't be surprised if they used this PSU in other cases too. In which case (pun intended ) maybe they top-mounted, downward-blowing 80 mm fan in the mATX PSU case didn't provide enough cooling to the output toroid.

Last edited by momaka; 07-03-2020 at 09:43 PM..
momaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2020, 08:59 PM   #3096
RukyCon
A Fake Rubycon
 
RukyCon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
City & State: Peoples Republic of California
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 122.5VAC 59.9Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 573
Default ISO Model: ISO-400 350w PSU

Hello, I've been wanting to show this PSU for a while, but have not due to a mix of laziness and fear that i would once again make a fool of myself. But excuses aside here is a look inside a NOS ISO PSU.

Label:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...8&d=1593917036
There's not a lot to say here. The UL number points towards Channel Well Technology as the OEM (no surprise there).

Board Overview:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...6&d=1593917036
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...3&d=1593917036
The component layout looks pretty typical, the soldering looks sub-par at best as all of the solder joints look dull and it looks like some of the joints on the secondary side had to be reworked from the factory.

Primary side:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...4&d=1593917036
The input filtering/PFC consists of 3 X2 capacitors (1x 470nf & 2x 100nf), 3 Y2 capacitors (4.7nf), and a single common mode choke.
This power supply has an NTC thermistor but lacks a varistor (so a decent surge can kill this thing).
The bridge rectifier is a PBL405 (Rated 600V, 4A), the primary capacitors are two Gun LG 470uf 200V, rater for 85c temp, and with the date codes 1011.
The 5VSB Mosfet is a C5353 while the main switching transistors are two KSH13009AL's.
The main transformer's size is 36.5mm wide by 45mm tall (i'm guessing this makes it an ERL36).

Secondary side:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...7&d=1593917036
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...9&d=1593917036
The 5VSB rail contains an SB540 diode, a PI coil and two capacitors, one Junfu WG 1000uf 10v before the coil, and one Junfu HK 470uf 10v after the coil.
The 3.3v rail contains an MBR2045CT rectifier, a PI coil, and two Junfu HK 2200uf 6.3v capacitors (one on each side of the coil).
The 5V rail contains an STPS3045CWC rectifier, a fat PI coil, and two Junfu HK 2200uf 10v capacitors in the exact same arrangement as the 3.3v rail (one cap on each side of the coil).
The 12V rail contains a BYQ30D rectifier, a Junfu HK 330uf 16v capacitor, a PI coil, and a Junfu WG 2200uf 16V capacitor.
The -5V rail contains an FR104 diode, a PI coil, and a Junfu HK 220uf 16v capacitor after the PI coil.
The -12V rail contains an FR154(?) (the number isn't fully visible on the diode) a PI coil, and a Junfu HK 220uf 16V capacitor.

The Fan:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...5&d=1593913199
Just your normal Jamicon fan, nothing special.

Now i'm not sure how capable this is for 350w of power, the Gun primary caps immediately reminded me of my Winsa PSU, which i suspected at the time was possibly OEMed by CWT (like this PSU), but didn't think CWT would lower their standards to such a level to make such a thing.
I hope this post is any good (and i hope Badcaps didn't lose the photos again).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20200704_183655~2[1].jpg (784.7 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 20200704_183529[1].jpg (708.1 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 20200704_174435[1].jpg (779.7 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 20200704_174518[1].jpg (774.0 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg 20200704_174533[1].jpg (529.3 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 20200704_175823[1].jpg (856.4 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg 20200704_174631[1].jpg (589.0 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg 20200704_174840[2].jpg (411.4 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg 20200704_183529[2].jpg (708.1 KB, 13 views)
__________________
I'm not a professional, but i'll try to do the best i can, and if i'm doing something wrong, please tell me.
RukyCon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2020, 02:27 AM   #3097
RukyCon
A Fake Rubycon
 
RukyCon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
City & State: Peoples Republic of California
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 122.5VAC 59.9Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 573
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Some notes i forgot to add to the main post due to time restrictions: The main control IC is a TL494L PWM controller with a TP3510 supervisor IC.
All of the wires are 20AWG, with an exception for the PS-ON wire which is 22AWG.
the two smaller transformers are roughly 30mm tall by 20mm wide.
Based off the date codes on components, this thing was made around early 2011.
I'm not a power supply expert, so i'm unsure what the full capability of this thing is, i will say however that the primary caps seem a bit undersized for 350w.
Anyways that's that and sorry for double posting.
RukyCon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 02:03 PM   #3098
Behemot
Badcaps Veteran
 
Behemot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Prague, 504'52.22"N, 1423'30.45"E
My Country: CZ
Line Voltage: 230 V/50 Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 4,532
Default Re: ISO Model: ISO-400 350w PSU

Quote:
Originally Posted by RukyCon View Post
the primary capacitors are two Gun LG 470uf 200V, rater for 85c temp, and with the date codes 1011.


don't think CWT has anything to do with this PoS, likely some fake copy if anything

they make CM6800 based PSUs as the cheapest for way more than a decade now
__________________
Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

Exclusive caps, meters and more!
Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!
Behemot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 05:15 PM   #3099
PeteS in CA
Badcaps Veteran
 
PeteS in CA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
City & State: San Jose, CA
My Country: USA, Unsure of Planet
Line Voltage: 120VAC, 60Hz & 115VAC, 400Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 2,938
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by RukyCon View Post
Some notes i forgot to add to the main post due to time restrictions: The main control IC is a TL494L PWM controller with a TP3510 supervisor IC.
All of the wires are 20AWG, with an exception for the PS-ON wire which is 22AWG.
the two smaller transformers are roughly 30mm tall by 20mm wide.
Based off the date codes on components, this thing was made around early 2011.
I'm not a power supply expert, so i'm unsure what the full capability of this thing is, i will say however that the primary caps seem a bit undersized for 350w.
Anyways that's that and sorry for double posting.
Re the input lytics, your instincts are good, I think. 470uF will probably give decent hold-up time for 250W. The heatsinks might be good to 300W. OTOH, AWG #20 wire seems to me more appropriate for 235W-250W. So I'd consider it 250W, capable of significant duration surges to 300W.
PeteS in CA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 07:16 AM   #3100
goodpsusearch
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
City & State: Thessaloniki, Greece
My Country: Greece
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,978
Default Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post

Also, note that while Linkworld may have rated the 12V rail on your PSU at 16A, the rectifier is rated for 20 Amps and the PSU uses half-bridge topology. This means, the secondary rectifier could indeed be pushed up to 20 Amps, if the primary can provide it and secondary doesn't go too out of spec to trip a protection.
Protection? No, we don't have this here

I have noticed several times Linkworld psus with bulging caps and 12V rail going up to even 14V and the psu still working

This is the thing I don't like at all at Linkworld power supplies. But, maybe this is common in many cheap psus, can't tell for sure.
goodpsusearch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Badcaps.net Technical Forums 2003 - 2020
Powered by vBulletin ®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:07 PM.
Did you find this forum helpful?