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Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

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    #21
    Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

    Well, it was the circuitry needed to deal with droop of 3v3 at high amperage through the wires. 5V has a lot of legacy use, but as seen by many designs, motherboards decided to switch down from 12V anyway for other reasons, instead of dropping 3V3.

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      #22
      Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

      Originally posted by eccerr0r View Post
      Well, it was the circuitry needed to deal with droop of 3v3 at high amperage through the wires.
      New motherboards don't really care about droop on the 3.3V though, because no ICs are directly powered from it anymore. If anything, droop is probably doing all the linear regulators a favor, as they have to drop less voltage now, so they'll run cooler. RTL and some BIOS chips may as well be the only thing that uses 3.3V directly... though I'm pretty sure most motherboards feed those through the local standby 3.3V rail that each motherboard itself generates (through 5VSB.)

      Originally posted by eccerr0r View Post
      5V has a lot of legacy use

      And it's still used for HDDs (non-M.2) as well as optical drives, just to name a few.

      So I guess that's why neither 3.3V nor 5V have gone away yet... at least until this standard... but looks like they will still be needed and generated. So that's why I still think this new spec is crap. It will literally only move the 3.3V and 5V rails from the PSU to the motherboard - and that's stupid, because it's the PC builder's choice what hardware will go into the machine, and hence their choice what PSU will be needed to supply the HW. Maybe I want a newer motherboard but a rack of old 3.5" rust-spinning HDDs. With this new spec, it's going to be a silly dongle-galore just to do that instead of using a PSU that already has these connections available.

      IDK, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel this is a step backwards.

      Only thing I do agree with the new spec is 24V rail, which as Chaos suggested, may be useful for high-power GPUs so that one 6/8-pin 24V connector should be able to provide enough power in place of what two 12V 8-pin connectors do right now.
      Last edited by momaka; 08-29-2020, 08:22 PM.

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        #23
        Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

        Originally posted by momaka View Post
        Only thing I do agree with the new spec is 24V rail, which as Chaos suggested, may be useful for high-power GPUs so that one 6/8-pin 24V connector should be able to provide enough power in place of what two 12V 8-pin connectors do right now.
        What 24v?
        There is no 24v in the spec.

        https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...98d113f69a.pdf

        The specification name for this Power Supply Design is ATX12VO which stands for ATX 12V Only
        Last edited by Per Hansson; 08-30-2020, 12:21 AM.
        "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

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          #24
          Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

          Eh... no sense for 12V to 24V doubler, just 240V 10:1 down...

          Well not exactly, but you get the picture. Anyway it seems that datacenter rooms actually use 48V a lot for some reason, so skip the 24V. Realistically the higher voltage just helps longer distance runs, else bucking a smaller voltage difference can be done with fewer Henries...

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            #25
            Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

            I was expecting something like this would happen - we could be using server PSUs which typically have a single high output +12V rail (in a Delta DPS-1200 excluding protrustions, it has a power density of 1.91W/CC)...
            My first choice in quality Japanese electrolytics is Nippon Chemi-Con, which has been in business since 1931... the quality of electronics is dependent on the quality of the electrolytics.

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              #26
              Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

              Originally posted by eccerr0r View Post
              Eh... no sense for 12V to 24V doubler, just 240V 10:1 down...

              Well not exactly, but you get the picture. Anyway it seems that datacenter rooms actually use 48V a lot for some reason, so skip the 24V. Realistically the higher voltage just helps longer distance runs, else bucking a smaller voltage difference can be done with fewer Henries...
              48v is considered "safe" by the electrical standards dictators.
              so no need for qualified people to work with it.
              it's also used by big ups's

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                #27
                Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

                Originally posted by stj View Post
                48v is considered "safe" by the electrical standards dictators.
                so no need for qualified people to work with it.
                it's also used by big ups's
                24 V is used by the fire alarm industry in the U.S.
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                  #28
                  Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

                  Originally posted by RJARRRPCGP View Post
                  24 V is used by the fire alarm industry in the U.S.
                  Yeah a lot of old control systems - 24V AC hence a proliferation of 24V relays...

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                    #29
                    Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

                    Originally posted by eccerr0r View Post
                    Yeah a lot of old control systems - 24V AC hence a proliferation of 24V relays...
                    The fire alarm industry uses 24 VDC.
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                    "¡Me encanta "Me Encanta o Enlistarlo con Hilary Farr!" -Mí mismo

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                    "Today's lesson in pissivity comes in the form of a ziplock baggie full of GPU extension brackets & hardware that for the last ~3 years have been on my bench, always in my way, getting moved around constantly....and yesterday I found myself in need of them....and the bastards are now nowhere to be found! Motherfracker!!" -Topcat

                    "did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747

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                      #30
                      Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

                      So is this going to apply to AMD boards as well? If not, will we now have 2 different standards running in parallel, ATX and ATX12VO?

                      And do you think AMD is going to adopt this in the long run? Or will Inlel have imploded before then?
                      Don't buy those $10 PSU "specials". They fail, and they have taken whole computers with them.

                      My computer doubles as a space heater.

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                        #31
                        Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

                        It's not AMD to decide as they don't make their own boards...

                        BTW whatever happened to BTX and other "standard" form factors...

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                          #32
                          Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

                          Originally posted by Per Hansson View Post
                          What 24v?
                          There is no 24v in the spec.
                          Oops, I'm not sure what happened there. My mind picked up something about 24V from Chaos's post, and then all of a sudden it got stuck into my head that there is going to be a 24V rail??? (In all honesty, I had a few beers before typing that post, so perhaps I should have refrained from posting. LOL! )

                          Originally posted by eccerr0r View Post
                          BTW whatever happened to BTX and other "standard" form factors...
                          I kind of liked BTX quite a bit, especially those older s775 and s1366 Dells.
                          Last edited by momaka; 08-30-2020, 01:06 PM.

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                            #33
                            Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

                            Originally posted by eccerr0r View Post
                            Yeah a lot of old control systems - 24V AC hence a proliferation of 24V relays...
                            ...and is the standard for most modern industrial control systems (PLCs, robots, etc.). Most of the sensors and the like I see at work are rated for 10-30VDC, but 24V is what nearly everything uses. Some of our really old stuff uses 100VAC (Japanese line voltage), and the HID FOB readers we use are 12V based (designed for building security though)... and something used 12V solenoids (since I accidentally got one from the stockroom and burned it on 24V ).
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                              #34
                              Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

                              ...and the thermostat that controls the heating and A/C in US residential housing uses 24V AC, although it is often really 28V. I have heard some industrial heating and A/C controls use 48 volts, but my HVAC career was VERY short and I never saw any 48V stuff.

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                                #35
                                Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

                                Originally posted by eccerr0r View Post
                                It's not AMD to decide as they don't make their own boards...

                                BTW whatever happened to BTX and other "standard" form factors...
                                Neither do Intel.

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                                  #36
                                  Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

                                  Actually Intel does have their hands into the board manufacturing, they do contract out board manufacturing and they put their name on those reference designs. So at least there will be boards out that were compelled by Intel to have their standards...

                                  AMD on the other hand, well not sure if they actually pay for reference design built or rather just work their board manufacturers to build a product with their design... or rather the integrator chooses what gets be put on the board...

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                                    #37
                                    Re: Intel introduces ATX12VO spec eliminating 3.3 and 5v

                                    It's 12v standby and it's not a brand it's a all brand that comply with the new atx12 compliance.

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