Badcaps.net Forum
Go Back   Badcaps Forums > Troubleshooting Hardware & Devices and Electronics Theory > Troubleshooting Laptops, Portable, and Mobile Devices
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-19-2019, 04:24 AM   #1
Dannyx
CertifiedAxhole
 
Dannyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
City & State: Constanta
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,642
Unhappy Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

Good day folks. I'm hoping someone can provide a bit of help with this Acer laptop I've got here, since it's got some pretty strange symptoms which I can't seem to identify the cause of. It's actually got several problems and I think they may be related somehow: first off it hangs on the Acer logo whenever a USB drive is plugged in. If you leave it alone long enough it eventually resumes, but doesn't actually detect the USB drive as bootable, making booting from it impossible. I tried several drives thinking perhaps there's something wrong with one of them, but no: Hirens, memtest, windows, all have the same exact behaviour.

Thinking it's a BIOS issue, I grabbed the zip file from Acer, which I also attached for you to see here, simple and convenient enough, extracted "KM2X64.FD" from it and copied that onto a FAT32 USB drive, as per the instructions on other forums. It made perfect sense, since I distinctly remember doing this to an HP laptop before and it worked, so at this point I was fairly confident this would work. I plugged the drive into the laptop, held down FN+ESC and plugged in the power adapter. Amazingly, it worked: the screen remained blank while the LED on the drive flashed for around 1 minute. When it stopped, I pressed the power button to turn it off, removed the drive and tried it out. It worked: the laptop still powered on, Acer logo came up and sure enough, the BIOS version was now the one I had on the drive. But.....sadly, this is where my luck ended, since the problem was still there: USB drive still caused the system to hang and doesn't get detected.

Is this a hardware issue ? Oh yeah, the USB ports DO work since USB keyboards work just fine, so it's probably something more complicated going on. Someone before went ahead and even replaced the NEC TOKIN ! Any thoughts on this ? Thank you.
Attached Files
File Type: zip BIOS_Acer_1.20_A_A.zip (2.86 MB, 2 views)
__________________
Wattevah...
Dannyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 05:06 AM   #2
SMDFlea
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
City & State: York
My Country: UK
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 3,031
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

Is the wifi card in the correct slot .
SMDFlea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 05:16 AM   #3
Dannyx
CertifiedAxhole
 
Dannyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
City & State: Constanta
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,642
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMDFlea View Post
Is the wifi card in the correct slot .
Um, yeah...LOL....didn't actually check that Will let you know
Dannyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 07:59 AM   #4
Dan81
SNES-powered
 
Dan81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
City & State: Romania
My Country: Bacau
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 1,007
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

Check the cap values where the original NEC-TOKIN was. They should be 470uF caps, not 330uF.
__________________
Main rig:
ASUS H61M-A
Core i3-3220 3.30GHz
MSI Twinfrozr GTX 750Ti 2GB GDDR5
6GB DDR3-1066
Samsung SH-224AB DVD-RW
Raidmax RX-500XT (recapped)
Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB
JNC RJA-52 case
Dan81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 08:28 AM   #5
Dannyx
CertifiedAxhole
 
Dannyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
City & State: Constanta
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,642
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
Check the cap values where the original NEC-TOKIN was. They should be 470uF caps, not 330uF.
Whoops.....ok Granted, it wasn't me who replaced them, so I have no idea what he used there In reality though, CAN those caps cause such behaviour ? The laptop runs perfectly fine otherwise....when I say perfectly fine, I mean windows installed successfully and the laptop runs without any crashes, at least so far...
Dannyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 02:03 PM   #6
Dan81
SNES-powered
 
Dan81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
City & State: Romania
My Country: Bacau
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 1,007
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

Yes, due to not enough filtering.

4x330 won't cut it - use 4x470uF caps. This is because the 6930G and 8930G use a lot more power.

6530, 6930, 8530 and 8930 are real beasts if you know how to fix their quirks (and keep them cool). I have a 6530 here that just needs a LVDS+ inverter. Once I get these, it's all rockin'. Maybe throwing a 480GB SSD along the 500GB HGST I have in there once I get it working.

Last edited by Dan81; 11-19-2019 at 02:11 PM..
Dan81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 02:54 PM   #7
Dannyx
CertifiedAxhole
 
Dannyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
City & State: Constanta
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,642
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

Ok, well it's a bit late for that since the chap who replaced them is the know-it-all kind and wouldn't take suggestions from others even if it kills him, so I'm not going to bother telling him that, though thanks for that - worth keeping in mind

On that note, can it be done the other way around though: use 470uF caps for EVERY NEC Tokin out there instead of the 330uF ones ?
Dannyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 03:25 PM   #8
KvnTM
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2018
City & State: Arnstein, Bayern (Bavaria)
My Country: Germany
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 422
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyx View Post
Ok, well it's a bit late for that since the chap who replaced them is the know-it-all kind and wouldn't take suggestions from others even if it kills him, so I'm not going to bother telling him that, though thanks for that - worth keeping in mind

On that note, can it be done the other way around though: use 470uF caps for EVERY NEC Tokin out there instead of the 330uF ones ?
I used 4x 330uF caps on 5 Acer 8920g in the past because someone suggested it and i didn't run into any issues so far. But I assume that the 8930g is a way more powerful machine. Using a higher capacitance makes sense on more power hungry cpu's though.
KvnTM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 12:53 AM   #9
Dannyx
CertifiedAxhole
 
Dannyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
City & State: Constanta
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,642
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

It's interesting that it starts up fine without flash drives, so perhaps the added load of the drive is causing issues on the power rails ? I'm trying to figure out how the flash drive could possibly cause the BIOS screen to hang like that but an USB keyboard doesn't...
Dannyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 03:00 AM   #10
Dannyx
CertifiedAxhole
 
Dannyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
City & State: Constanta
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,642
Talking Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMDFlea View Post
Is the wifi card in the correct slot .
I just had a look at that...there's two of them side by side. I think one is the bluetooth adapter, but I don't think swapping them around would have any effect on the issue, especially since I don't think the dude removed them to begin with and the way the antennas tend to flex seem to confirm these, as they seem to pull in the right direction for each of the two boards.
Dannyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 05:43 AM   #11
KvnTM
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2018
City & State: Arnstein, Bayern (Bavaria)
My Country: Germany
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 422
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyx View Post
I just had a look at that...there's two of them side by side. I think one is the bluetooth adapter, but I don't think swapping them around would have any effect on the issue, especially since I don't think the dude removed them to begin with and the way the antennas tend to flex seem to confirm these, as they seem to pull in the right direction for each of the two boards.
Usually Wifi & BT are integrated into a single card. Does this model have a cellular option? Maybe that's a 3G/4G Card.

I experienced that unusual behavior myself. I had a flash drive loaded with windows plugged into a desktop pc and it would freeze at post. I'm not sure what caused this and I still don't have an explanation for it. Without the drive it booted just fine.
I know that failing drives can hang a system at startup. I have a failing hard drive in my computer which slows/freezes post when the sata port is enabled. I'm too lazy to rip it out
KvnTM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 06:19 AM   #12
SMDFlea
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
City & State: York
My Country: UK
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 3,031
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

The card on the left with the connector facing towards you should have the wifi card, the slot on the right is for a TV tuner card or an intel turbo memory card.

http://tim.id.au/laptops/acer/aspire%208930.pdf
SMDFlea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 06:20 AM   #13
Dannyx
CertifiedAxhole
 
Dannyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
City & State: Constanta
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,642
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMDFlea View Post
The card on the left with the connector facing towards you should have the wifi card, the slot on the right is for a TV tuner card or an intel turbo memory card.

http://tim.id.au/laptops/acer/aspire%208930.pdf
Yes, that's right, it's probably a TV tuner since I remember a colleague going "check it out - this thing's got a TV tuner", though I didn't inspect it in detail to see where it actually is.
Dannyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 07:48 AM   #14
Dan81
SNES-powered
 
Dan81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
City & State: Romania
My Country: Bacau
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 1,007
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

Yeah, my replacement 6530 board came with a AVermedia A310 TV tuner as well. Shame I can't use it as it can't find any channels.

Unless the owner needs it, try and remove it and check if the board works with a USB attached.

Last edited by Dan81; 11-20-2019 at 07:54 AM..
Dan81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 08:12 AM   #15
Dannyx
CertifiedAxhole
 
Dannyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
City & State: Constanta
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,642
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

Get this: the laptop's no longer turning on now The guys just decided they'd leave it as it is and live with the USB issue (after all, all the client cares about is to have a functional laptop that'd get them onto a Windows desktop). It also happens that the keyboard on this is busted, so the "PROOOOOOOS" here set it aside while they waited for the replacement one to arrive. It arrived today, one of them removed the old one, popped the new one in and......nothing No more video...how is this possible ? I was actually giggling behind their back in a "told you so" moment. It could be those caps they used to "fix" the NEC Tokin are indeed to low a value and it was only a matter of time before they gave up...let's not forget those were not new to begin with so maybe they just died in the meantime :|
Dannyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2019, 01:55 AM   #16
Dannyx
CertifiedAxhole
 
Dannyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
City & State: Constanta
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,642
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

Today the chap started poking around this laptop again and he measured around and found no VCore on those 4 330uF caps he replaced, so he assumed VCore is not being generated and started diagnosing the VCore rail......I however disagree and believe the VCore rail is not TOLD to turn on, rather than being an actual fault there. I think the ITE chip is the one responsible for instructing the different rails to come on.

Not sure if GFX power is there or not, or if Vcore gets turned on even without the graphics card (it's removable on this laptop). I just "fixed" a laptop back at my old shop which I still visit from time to time, which had CPU Vcore, despite the laptop not turning on - hit it with some hot air and it came on, so the CPU was technically "disconnected", but VCore was still there. By contrast, I once had an HP with a removable CPU whose Vcore refused to come on without the CPU in the socket, despite the laptop not turning on, so there's a lot of variables here !
Dannyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2019, 01:16 PM   #17
Dan81
SNES-powered
 
Dan81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
City & State: Romania
My Country: Bacau
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 1,007
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

I'd say to try and replace the caps with 4x470uF.

Some will power on without the CPU but then kill power about 2 seconds after. (at least on my 6530's old board) As for the GPU, it will either power on and beep, or sit there and do nothing. It's PM45, so no integrated GPU as opposed to 6930 & 6530, where both have a switchable iGPU (GM45 for the 6930 and HD3200 for 6530)
Dan81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2019, 01:21 PM   #18
Dannyx
CertifiedAxhole
 
Dannyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
City & State: Constanta
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,642
Thumbs up Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
It's PM45, so no integrated GPU as opposed to 6930 & 6530, where both have a switchable iGPU (GM45 for the 6930 and HD3200 for 6530)
By "integrated GPU" you mean one integrated into the CPU ? So since it DOESN'T have one, it relies solely on that removable board to display anything ? I've always had trouble in this respect - differentiating between the graphics and the northbridge (chipset ?) and the CPU and what's what....and...ugggh >_>
Dannyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2019, 02:37 PM   #19
Dan81
SNES-powered
 
Dan81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
City & State: Romania
My Country: Bacau
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 1,007
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

On older chipsets (pre 1st gen i3), the GPU is usually integrated into the chipset northbridge (in the case of GM45 for example). PM45 is exactly the mobile version of P45, while GM45 would be somewhere around the G41/G45 series. AMD solutions that Acer had were either based on nVidia chipsets (like one of the Aspire 7520 I have - it has nForce 610M/GF7000M) or AMD chipsets (like the 6530 which uses AMD M780G if I remember correctly)

So basically yes, 8930G doesn't have an integrated GPU, relying on the MXM-II slot to have a dedicated separate GPU to output anything.
Dan81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2019, 02:46 PM   #20
Dannyx
CertifiedAxhole
 
Dannyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
City & State: Constanta
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 2,642
Default Re: Acer 8930G hangs on Acer logo

Ok, that straightened me out. So the CPU itself is not involved in the graphics per-se - it's the CHIPSET (NB) that does it.

EDIT: as a curiosity, I also looked over the schematic here. The VCore rail is on page 10. I can only assume the EN pin of U500 (PWR_GOOD_3 in the schematic) is being kept low for whatever reason. Searching for PWR_GOOD_3 in the schematic shows it comes from a couple of places, including what looks like the slot for the GFX card, so that too plays a role here apparently...pretty tough to narrow it down without the boardview, though my money too is on those caps ! !
Dannyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Badcaps.net Technical Forums 2003 - 2019
Powered by vBulletin ®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:01 PM.
Did you find this forum helpful?