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Old 09-17-2021, 05:09 PM   #1
shelby5041
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Default Power supply board missing voltage

hi

i am troubleshooting an old carvewright cnc machine

it powers on fine but when i test x y or z axis none of the axis will move and i just get axis stall fault

the history of this machine is bad..it was stored in a shed for about 15 years..its in bad shape lots of rust

i have been working on it mechanically for 2 days..li have gotten it all freed up and mechanically its all good

as i said it power up fine .and everyhting seems to function fine other than the x y z axis servo motors not powering on at all......i have dont some narrowing down to it being a controller board signal or power issue

today i think i narrowed it down to power issue...on the PS there is a output voltage harness with 2 diff outputs...V1 and V2

V1 tests at 5V ..i assume that is the voltage that supplies the main board and lcd panel

V2 tests at 0V...i beleive this is the servo motor power but not sure


there is one more voltage output neat the 100v input and that goes to the cut motor...

this is a proprietary board..not avail to buy anywhere..no schematics...carvewright company will not assist...this machine was made in 2006 however according to the hours used in menu option it only has 1hr and 20min use on it..

im hoping someone can assist me why i have no voltage at V2 output

the V1 and V2 both go to the the controller board.

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File Type: jpg cw2.jpg (272.5 KB, 19 views)
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Old 09-17-2021, 05:16 PM   #2
petehall347
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

wondering if it might use those corroded ground connections .
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Old 09-17-2021, 05:16 PM   #3
shelby5041
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

More pics
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Old 09-17-2021, 05:21 PM   #4
shelby5041
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

i use isopropyl alchohol to clean it up best i could..and yes there are several corroded areas on the board...the board screw mounts just screw into plastic framing of the machine not metal.

im thinking its something simple since the machine only has a little over 1hr run time on it...its old but was never used..just left out to rust to all heck,,,im trying to save it...
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Old 09-17-2021, 05:39 PM   #5
stj
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

change the small capacitors - anything 100uf or less.
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Old 09-17-2021, 05:53 PM   #6
shelby5041
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

thanks..none are bulged and the power supply only has 1hr use on it so none of the components should be bad

just wondering if corrosion or high humidity affected any components from sitting in shed for many many years

the power supply is located on the bottom of the machine so its probably less than 3/4in from the ground..so its possible that when it was stored in was submersed in water at one time but thats just a guess

the machine is pretty rusted at the bottom about 1in high

Last edited by shelby5041; 09-17-2021 at 05:56 PM..
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Old 09-17-2021, 06:57 PM   #7
R_J
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

Based on the rust that is on the screws, I would check all connections that also have rust, like the transformer pins themselves, the standby supply (5v) seems to be ok, it is the other separate supply driven by ic2 that is not working.
Also check the voltage across the main filter cap, this power supply seems to have a pfc circuit, so this voltage should be around 160vdc in standby, 385vdc when working.

Last edited by R_J; 09-17-2021 at 07:02 PM..
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:30 PM   #8
shelby5041
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

I dont believe the 5v is standby...it powers the controller board and lcd display which is all fine

Ill do some more testing over weekend

This is a cnc machine not a tv

Controller board runs on 5v

The other voltage which is missing powers the x y z axis servo motors

Last edited by shelby5041; 09-17-2021 at 07:42 PM..
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Old 09-18-2021, 01:04 AM   #9
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelby5041 View Post
I dont believe the 5v is standby...it powers the controller board and lcd display which is all fine

Ill do some more testing over weekend

This is a cnc machine not a tv

Controller board runs on 5v

The other voltage which is missing powers the x y z axis servo motors
Ok I see a lot of pins on this board that have a rust color on them this is what I would highly recommend that if you are going to reconditioned these machines if we’re me I would first buy a Desoldering Gun something like this and learn how use it correctly before using on a board that is not replaceable

* https://www.mpja.com/Desoldering-Sta...info/19034+TL/

https://www.harborfreight.com/12v-li...nly-57735.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-in-s...kit-61562.html

I not trying to sell you something that you do need but if you going to keep rebuilding these old boards and do not want to keep using Disordering wick and possibly of tearing pads of your boards this is why I would highly recommend that you make an investment in one of these Desoldering Guns


This is what I would do first if I was repairing this board desolder every transformer on this board very carefully and clean every pin with a green scrubbing pad you can also get it in pad disk as well and then put them back on the board do them one at a time

Then I would replace every single capacitor that 100uf and less

I would desolder every pin on each device and look for rust if there is any clean it off very carefully and resolder them back on the board do only pins on one side of a device at a time unless you need to remove it to clean the pins on it

I have done this procedure several times on machine controller boards and have gotten back working correctly again but it very time consuming project and you have to have the right type of tools to do it

At a company that I use to work for they had battery operated magnet metal pick up for metal plates that became so bad that it would not power ON took it apart and found corrosion on every pin on every device on this board I removed every bit of solder from every pin on every device and put fresh solder on every pin
—>this project took about 8 to 10 hours to complete and this was with the tool that I was talking about earlier * this was the only tool that I had at the time I did not have the other tools that I also mentioned earlier

When I was finished and I reinstalled everything and turn on the battery charger it powered ON and functioned correctly and they used it for several more years until one of ic chips that was unavailable anymore from the manufacturer and could not be repaired correctly anymore
__________________
9 PC LCD Monitor
6 LCD Flat Screen TV
30 Desk Top Switching Power Supply
10 Battery Charger Switching Power Supply for Power Tool
6 18v Lithium Battery Power Boards for Tool Battery Packs
1 XBox 360 Switching Power Supply and M Board
25 Servo Drives 220/460 3 Phase
6 De-soldering Station Switching Power Supply 1 Power Supply
1 Dell Mother Board
15 Computer Power Supply
1 HP Printer Supply & Control Board * lighting finished it *


These two repairs where found with a ESR meter...> Temp at 50*F then at 90*F the ESR reading more than 10%

1 Over Head Crane Current Sensing Board ( VFD Failure Five Years Later )
2 Hem Saw Computer Stack Board

All of these had CAPs POOF
All of the mosfet that are taken out by bad caps

Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 09-18-2021 at 01:47 AM..
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Old 09-18-2021, 02:40 AM   #10
sam_sam_sam
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

https://www.mpja.com/Desoldering-Sta...info/19034+TL/

If you buy one make sure that you buy extra tips and the smaller filters you will need them please PM me if you do buy one and I will give you an option to buy a plastic container for the solder collection or a website link on EBAY where you can find them the one that comes with it (do keep the rubber parts the tips and the filter ) is crap as far as I am concerned [ what ever you do do not loose the flat washer that is on the tube on the suction tube if you do it will not work correctly anymore ] it is replaceable but it can not be bought separately

One note on this item do not take a long time to decide if you want to get one this item sell out some what quickly and it is months before they have them back in stock I just bought a new one because the one I been using for a few years now the suction is not as strong as it is when new and the cooling fan is making noise when you first turn it on for the day ( I use it most every weekend for hours )

The issue with the suction leaking is somewhat repairable and it improves some what but it still not as strong as it was when new but still useable for most jobs but this is the reason for buying a new so I can do some repairs on it ( the suction cups and the cylinder on the pump they get dirty with carbon in the lubricant that was used so you clean the suction cups and you use new lubricant )

I have a few of Desoldering Gun machines but what also happens is that the controller board or the power supply board goes bad and sometimes not cost effective ( bad back led light bad micro controller issues ) bad switching power supply regulator ic bad transformer shorted ) to repair them but I keep them for repairing them that are not very bad condition

Sometimes you can find an EBAY seller that sells the controller boards but it has been a few years since the last time I saw some for sale I only once saw a seller that sold the switching power supply board but the seller wanted to much money for it

Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 09-18-2021 at 03:22 AM..
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Old 09-18-2021, 02:42 AM   #11
shelby5041
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

Hi samsam..thank you.for your good advice..you are correct thats very time consuming...the biggest issue is desoldering.
Im not an electronics guru...just a tinkerer...and for me desoldering lead free solder is a royal pain in the ass....i used to desolder lead solder with an old radio shack msnual bulb sucker and it did fine

That will not work on lead free solder and ive never had luck eith lead free solder

I do have a dedoldering station but have never used it...

Ill look at board over weekend.im only concerned with v2......as i said i do have v1= 5v for controller but v2 voltage is missing

If the manuf can tell me how many volts are needed for driver/servo motors i could then just buy a cheap power supply and feed direct to v2 wires.only...that vould be easiest...but i dont know specs of the proprietary servo motors.



Can you tell me which caps and transformer supply voltage to v2?...im sure i could trace the circuit...but maybe u can visually see it way easier than me....im assuming v2 is should output much higher than 5v since its supplying power for 3 tiny servo motors...i would guess the large transformer with all the copper exposed may be for v2.

Last edited by shelby5041; 09-18-2021 at 03:12 AM..
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Old 09-18-2021, 03:29 AM   #12
sam_sam_sam
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelby5041 View Post
Hi samsam..thank you.for your good advice..you are correct thats very time consuming...the biggest issue is desoldering.
Im not an electronics guru...just a tinkerer...and for me desoldering lead free solder is a royal pain in the ass....i used to desolder lead solder with an old radio shack msnual bulb sucker and it did fine

That will not work on lead free solder and ive never had luck eith lead free solder

I do have a dedoldering station but have never used it...

Ill look at board over weekend.im only concerned with v2......as i said i do have v1= 5v for controller but v2 voltage is missing

If the manuf can tell me how many volts are needed for driver/servo motors i could then just buy a cheap power supply and feed direct to v2 wires.only...that vould be easiest...but i dont know specs of the proprietary servo motors.



Can you tell me which caps and transformer supply voltage to v2?...im sure i could trace the circuit...but maybe u can visually see it way easier than me....im assuming v2 is should output much higher than 5v since its supplying power for 3 tiny servo motors...i would guess the large transformer with all the copper exposed may be for v2.
“I do have a dedoldering station but have never used it...”
What model number is it that you have and why do you not use it ?
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Old 09-18-2021, 03:35 AM   #13
sam_sam_sam
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

As far as why you have NO power to V2 you first need correct the rust issues with the soldering joints first once you have done this then we can try to figure this part later

I can tell you from past experience that when I see a board like this the first thing I do is make sure that bad soldering joints are not my issues because you are going to waste a lot of time running around in circles trust me when I tell you this

I am not trying to be little you but just wanting to take short cuts to think you are saving time getting it working again is saving time is wrong because it will not save you time in fact it cost you more time and more aggravation in the long run and if you were repairing this for someone it would be costing you money

Because I repair Servo Motor Controllers boards for a company that I done this for this company for about 10 years now and several times capacitors leaked out on the controller boards and had to replace all the capacitors and clean the solder traces on the boards and yes it can take hours to do it but once I have done this way I only once had it where it did not work completely correctly but it worked enough that it was useable because this machine had a bad Servo motor and was very expensive to get it repaired and they were not using that function anymore for the time being

For this machine to boot up it has to have all axis Servo Motor Controllers in place and power up to work correctly

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Old 09-18-2021, 03:42 AM   #14
shelby5041
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

Ok i may have found voltage required...see a link i found ...see cause3...it say 24v needed...ive got a 24v power supply i van feed to v2 wires over weekend to see if servos will then work for troubleshooting purpose.

http://support.carvewright.com/wp-co...tall_error.pdf


And yes samsam..i will look at some of the solder joints pins

Last edited by shelby5041; 09-18-2021 at 03:58 AM..
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Old 09-18-2021, 04:13 AM   #15
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelby5041 View Post
Ok i may have found voltage required...see a link i found ...see cause3...it say 24v needed...ive got a 24v power supply i van feed to v2 wires over weekend to see if servos will then work for troubleshooting purpose.

http://support.carvewright.com/wp-co...tall_error.pdf


And yes samsam..i will look at some of the solder joints pins
Here is something you should know about encoders unless you have a way to look at the enclosure counter to see if you have the following issues you will not be able to find or fix the issues

You have to be able to get into the troubleshoot portion of the controller to able to this

I have repaired a few of this type of setup

If you can get the company to tell you how to get into the troubleshoot section of the controller you will be wasting your time unless you get really lucky and are just swapping parts around

If you can get into the troubleshoot portion of the controller by putting it into TEST MODE
The first thing you want to look at is at very slow speed ( on the stepper motors one motor at a time ) can you see the stepping numbers going up or down but you do need to do both directions with out jumping numbers or skipping numbers yes this means extremely slow speed if it not smooth then you either have a bad encoder issue or you have a machine binding issue that needs to be resolved for it to work correctly

One note jumping lots of numbers numbers and skipping a few numbers are different

Skipping numbers sometimes is not an issue if it that it counts by two or four but it has to be consistent it can not by two then four and so on this might be an issue

Also by doing this it tells several things one that your stepper motors are working correctly that your encoders are working correctly and that you do not have a binding issue with the machine or the controller so doing this is not a waste of time trust me on this one

But one thing it might not tell you is that your controller is working correctly in the automatic mode this can be another issue by itself

But first you need to have all of your voltage accounted for before any of this can be done

Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 09-18-2021 at 04:33 AM..
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Old 09-18-2021, 04:41 AM   #16
sam_sam_sam
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelby5041 View Post
Ok i may have found voltage required...see a link i found ...see cause3...it say 24v needed...ive got a 24v power supply i van feed to v2 wires over weekend to see if servos will then work for troubleshooting purpose.

http://support.carvewright.com/wp-co...tall_error.pdf


And yes samsam..i will look at some of the solder joints pins
Just because you think a soldering look good with out looking through a magnifying glass and not looking very closely at the pins is going to be very misleading trust on this one as well

If you see the following redo the soldering joints
Cracking or dull soldering joints
Portion of pin or pins do not have solder around the hole pin or pins
Or you see flux residue on the bottom of the soldering joints or around the pin or pins redo them
Or you see white corrosion around the pins then you need redo the soldering joints
Or you see rust on the pins redo the soldering joints after cleaning the pins

I only do this as a last resort because things can go horrible wrong if not done correctly

Be very careful of putting a 24 volt on the controller board and you do have other voltages that need to be there you might damage the controller board if has a separate controller boards for stepper motor then yes you could do this but make sure that you have the polarization correct (+and - where they need to be )

One note if these stepper motors have communication cable that hook up from one board to another you will still have to have the main controller board powered on just keep this in mind as well

Do all of the the items that refer to electricity part of this procedure and if you get stuck some where copy that portion or the reference number and explain what is different from what it tell you and what you have

I have looked at this what you have posted but not into each item details there are too many items to look at so if you need help I will try help you with it

One note this is a technician check list and is only a guide and to point you in a certain direction it not a troubleshoot guide do keep this in mind I am not saying that this is not helpful but it is limited in it information

Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 09-18-2021 at 05:24 AM..
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Old 09-19-2021, 03:32 AM   #17
shelby5041
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

Thanks samsam...great info..later today i will examine ps closely and do some cleaning and resoldering

Since the board only has 1hour use on it im thinking this is not a component failure...hoping its just a corrosion solder joint problem
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Old 09-19-2021, 01:31 PM   #18
sam_sam_sam
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

Remember that this is actual running time this does not mean the machine being in standby mode it could have more hours than what is showing one other issue might be the time counter might not have been working correctly either so do not be fooled by this running time that is showing

Here is a case in point

Where I use to work we had a machine that the running counter got stuck at 400 hours and would not count anymore
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Old 09-19-2021, 01:41 PM   #19
shelby5041
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

The machine has 9hrs power on mode per usage meter
1hr spindle motor on

I just confirmed its a ps ossue...i hooked up 24v directly to main board and now servo motors function

I tried resoldering old ps...no change

Im going to just mount a cheap 24v ps next to orig...its cheapest easiest solition
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Old 09-19-2021, 01:41 PM   #20
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Default Re: Power supply board missing voltage

There is no standby mode...
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