Badcaps.net Forum
Go Back   Badcaps Forums > Troubleshooting Hardware & Devices and Electronics Theory > Troubleshooting Power Supplies and Power Supply Design
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-14-2015, 06:52 PM   #41
Behemot
Badcaps Veteran
 
Behemot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Prague, 504'52.22"N, 1423'30.45"E
My Country: CZ
Line Voltage: 230 V/50 Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 4,697
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

What about just buying really good batteries, like, umm, Panasonic? Those do 5 years on their own, without any of this mess with acid.

Where exactly is the "in the front cover at the bottom"?
__________________
Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

Exclusive caps, meters and more!
Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!
Behemot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 03:29 PM   #42
sadeoo7
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
City & State: Montreal
My Country: Canada
Line Voltage: 110/220
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 13
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

Its true that APC ups'S overcharge batteries but they still last about 3 years in most of the cases, and this is what apc advertises too. now if you want to make your batteries last longer you just have to keep the float voltage beetween 13.4 and 13.8 volts and keep them cool the best temperature for these sla's is from 20 to 25 degrees C. But i do agree with Behemot you really should start with some good batteries, i work in a ups service center and sometimes some of our costumers say that they will remplace their batteries by themselves but it usually endsup that the guy bought crap batteries at walmart or on ebay and then he complains because his batteries should last longer. they are many good brands of batteries Yuasa genesys or CSB are some of those. I personnaly havent had a good experience with panasonic batteries they tend to leak and they damage the ups that they where in. ill check to get some photos to prove what i say.
sry for my english im french canadian...

Last edited by sadeoo7; 03-02-2016 at 03:32 PM..
sadeoo7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2016, 04:13 PM   #43
Behemot
Badcaps Veteran
 
Behemot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Prague, 504'52.22"N, 1423'30.45"E
My Country: CZ
Line Voltage: 230 V/50 Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 4,697
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

You better do, I've never EVER seen or even heard of leaking Panasonic. Not even bulging. These are the best lead accumulators on the market. Yuasa are not bad, but definitelly under Panny. In those plastic craps from Must Power (for example those FSP UPSes) they usually only last 3 years.

On the other hand all that no-nape crap tends to leak, bulge, crack or even explode spraying hot acid inside the UPS.

Goes for Long too but that is getting better in later years. Seen few bloated CSB too but not that many as Long.
Behemot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 01:13 AM   #44
sadeoo7
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
City & State: Montreal
My Country: Canada
Line Voltage: 110/220
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 13
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

i will defenitly try to get you some pics of some panasonic batteries that failed but take a look at these

they where about 6 years old when we got them out of the ups





these are just an example of some really cheap batteries and they where a year old when we got them out




Last edited by sadeoo7; 03-03-2016 at 01:14 AM..
sadeoo7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 01:36 AM   #45
Behemot
Badcaps Veteran
 
Behemot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Prague, 504'52.22"N, 1423'30.45"E
My Country: CZ
Line Voltage: 230 V/50 Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 4,697
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

Why are the images only 180135 pixels?

It's actually interesting you say
Quote:
they are many good brands of batteries Yuasa genesys or CSB
and than first image is with bulging CSB
Behemot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 10:23 AM   #46
sadeoo7
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
City & State: Montreal
My Country: Canada
Line Voltage: 110/220
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 13
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

so you think that if i overcharge a panasonic battery for multiple years it will not becaume bulgy ? its not just about that... and soryy for the low resolution i probably made a mistake with the weird photo posting website i used. I searched for some panasonic batteries today but we don have any right now they are preatty rare but i will post some ipictures if i find some.

Last edited by sadeoo7; 03-03-2016 at 10:40 AM..
sadeoo7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 10:53 AM   #47
sadeoo7
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
City & State: Montreal
My Country: Canada
Line Voltage: 110/220
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 13
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

i will check for some dead panasonic batterie when i get some because i dont want to search in every box...



yeah we recycle alot of dead sla batteries this pallet is about 5 feet tall.


this is just a shelf full of ups
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 819024imagepallletbatt.jpg (448.0 KB, 154 views)
File Type: jpg 934829upsafew.jpg (795.1 KB, 156 views)

Last edited by Per Hansson; 03-03-2016 at 12:23 PM.. Reason: Offsite images uploaded
sadeoo7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 12:25 PM   #48
Per Hansson
Super Moderator
 
Per Hansson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
City & State: ----
My Country: Sweden
Line Voltage: 230v 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 5,066
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

Please don't link images offsite, upload them here instead.
I fixed the ones in your last post.

FAQ: Inserting Images in your post
__________________
"The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."
Per Hansson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 12:30 PM   #49
sadeoo7
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
City & State: Montreal
My Country: Canada
Line Voltage: 110/220
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 13
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

i read the faq, sorry and thanks !

Last edited by sadeoo7; 03-03-2016 at 12:37 PM..
sadeoo7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2016, 11:03 PM   #50
mohammadKhazaal
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
City & State: Baghdad
My Country: Iraq
Line Voltage: 220VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 1
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

Hi, everybody. Can I get the data sheet for APC2020B and APC 2010? Thanks for all.
mohammadKhazaal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 09:30 AM   #51
zaharel91
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
City & State: tulcea
My Country: romania
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 2
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

hello!
can someone help me lower my ups float voltage?

i have an APC smart ups 1000VA (2002 i think), it is a black one and it is modified to run on 2x12v car battery for central heating pump backup. i didn't make the modification, the guy from i have bought the ups did it.
i currently have 27.72v float voltage but it is boiling my car batteries, i would like to achieve 27v.

i have already tried to do the "r118" mod but it did not work, also, you can see that it is another model, with newer design, it does not have classic resistors. i have marked r118 from my ups with a red rectangle.

i also tried using the software method but with no succes, my settings are saved but with no real modification on multimeter, i still have 27.72v after.

another thing i want to say is that on an older smart ups 700va that i am using on my pc i have succeded the "r118" mod by using a 100k potentiometer instead of 100k resistor and i have a constant 27v float voltage. my inspiration was: http://www.jjoseph.org/notes/apc_sma..._float_voltage

sorry for my english, i am from romania.

LATER EDIT: guess what, 30 mins after this post i have tried one more time using software method and it worked, trough hyperterminal. but there is something "fishy", to actual decrease the voltage in real world you have to increase the voltage trough hyperterminal. sooo....by accident (i mean curiosity) i have increased the voltage and i noticed a voltage drop at terminals using multimeter. currently i have 27.67v/E9 on hyperterminal and a real 27.1v on battery terminal. at least for the moment, i will update if something changes.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20171014_173848.jpg (1.03 MB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg 20171014_173857.jpg (853.1 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg 20171014_173859.jpg (615.4 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg 20171014_173902.jpg (625.6 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg 20171014_173918.jpg (1.00 MB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg 20171014_173923.jpg (914.6 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg 20171014_173927.jpg (796.8 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg 20171014_154459.jpg (593.5 KB, 20 views)

Last edited by zaharel91; 10-14-2017 at 10:53 AM.. Reason: new info
zaharel91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 01:42 PM   #52
Behemot
Badcaps Veteran
 
Behemot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Prague, 504'52.22"N, 1423'30.45"E
My Country: CZ
Line Voltage: 230 V/50 Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 4,697
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

This UPS is not designed to work with flooded cells and definitelly not with so high capacity. If you are willing to burn your house, continue using it.

I actually have couple dozen SUA750XLI which can run up to about 2150 Ah (SLA of course) so if there is demand for such units in Romania, let me know, I can process them and drive there. Finally have a van since tuesday.

Although I can get ya UPS specifically modified to run with heating pumps and for use with single SLA up to 150-200 Ah. It may actually come cheaper than the APC units in the end.
Behemot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 04:35 PM   #53
zaharel91
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
City & State: tulcea
My Country: romania
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 2
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

UPS, as i mentioned before it was modified by the seller. a few settings in powerchute, hyperterminal, 60amp fuse, bigger cables. at least this is what he told me.
i have 2x45ah batteries.

i have been using it for 3 years, 2 winters and it has done his job when i have lost electricity because of the hard winter. around 6-12 hours at a maximum 30w power consumption, only 1 pump (water pump for recirculating hot water) and the pump it was cycling "on" and "off", it is controlled by a thermostat/heat sensor.

so, at least in my situation....i have low power requirements, i really don't think i am in danger.

i can put you in contact with the person who sold me the UPS, i think he will want a few UPS units, let me know in PM if you want to discuss with him.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg thumbnail (1).jpg (129.6 KB, 25 views)
zaharel91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 02:21 AM   #54
Behemot
Badcaps Veteran
 
Behemot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Prague, 504'52.22"N, 1423'30.45"E
My Country: CZ
Line Voltage: 230 V/50 Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 4,697
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

If it is in cold environment the whole time, that could help a bit, but a 1000VA variant only has passive cooling so the stand-by/charging circuit is under lot higher stress ALL THE TIME. Such high capacity accumulators have higher leaks so the current is high 24/7. That's simly not safe. If there was no cooling modification it can result in some bad things happening.

I've already met one of the early CyberFort units where somebody probably was doing the very same thing. It was overheating so badly that the heatsink a phase conductor was touching melt its PVC insulation, creating hard short which blasted the unit.

On the other hand the XLI units not only have fan, but are designed to run with high capacity external packs, so the charger is spec'ed for that. The SUA750XLI itself can run about 24 hours at 100% load (600 W) with the largest pack, according to APCs runtime chart.

Besides, flooded accumulators are leaking hydrogen and sulfur acid, both highly corrosive, so any space where these are placed 24/7 require venting, otherwise it will start eating everything metalic you have there. On top of that, when they are sitting without any movement, stratification and sulfation occurs, both greatly reducind their lifetime. You can prolonge it by charging it with a car battery (high voltage) charger once or twice a year. But compared to such effort, it is just better IMO to get back-up SLA. Those are more expensive, but with NO service whatsoever last 5-10 years, depending on size, temperature, quality etc. This huge material can possibly give you more information about lead-acid technology http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/

Last edited by Behemot; 10-15-2017 at 02:26 AM..
Behemot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2021, 10:24 AM   #55
Boggy22
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
City & State: Bucuresti
My Country: Romania
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 2
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

Hi guys,

Sorry for resurrecting a 4yo thread. My SUA1500 is charging my batteries at ~13.85v (float voltage), which is making them last about 2 years. It's a bit costly, being 40Ah AGM batteries (spec sheet for the batteries here: https://www.caranda.ro/wp-content/up...01/LFP1240.pdf).
I'm curious if the resistor mod would work on my version. It's the old SUA1500, without digital display, only LED indicators. Any idea?

@zaharel91 - Can you please give more details about how to reprogram the UPS via USB?

Thanks!
Boggy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2021, 06:49 PM   #56
Behemot
Badcaps Veteran
 
Behemot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Prague, 504'52.22"N, 1423'30.45"E
My Country: CZ
Line Voltage: 230 V/50 Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 4,697
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

SUA1500I could only accomodate 20Ah accumulators, how do you squeeze 40Ah inside?
Behemot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 07:40 AM   #57
Boggy22
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
City & State: Bucuresti
My Country: Romania
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 2
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

DIY external case placed under the UPS unit (fireproofed OSB wood -4-5 layers of fireproofing gel-, digital temperature monitoring on each battery including sound alarm if the batteries ever exceed 37/42C, fan to cool everything down in case it needs it (starts at the 37C step), voltage monitoring for each battery, plus the whole pack).

Quite pleased of how it turned out, I could have only wished to make it out of metal, but sealed batteries are pretty safe. They only got to ~34C max during 950W load test in the summer. That fan never got a chance to spin once in 5y since I made it.
Boggy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2021, 11:45 AM   #58
Behemot
Badcaps Veteran
 
Behemot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Prague, 504'52.22"N, 1423'30.45"E
My Country: CZ
Line Voltage: 230 V/50 Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 4,697
Default Re: APC Smart-UPS float voltage experiment

goin' such a way for something you can get made exactly to fit yur needs…don't really understand that

running on temperature over 30 C shortens the lifespan year or two as well, check datasheets (of decent manufacturers though)

I've never actually set the voltage myself as older units I did try that command to did not know it yet (old protocol version), but I'd say it's the same as calibrating the constant, just that instead of constant you select voltage for programming.
Behemot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Badcaps.net Technical Forums 2003 - 2022
Powered by vBulletin ®
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:05 PM.
Did you find this forum helpful?