Modern Samxon and Teapo caps much better these days?

[jayjr1105]

I pull a buch of (Teapo, Samxon, Ltec, Taicon, etc.) caps from older power supplies and they always check out very low ESR and capacitance in spec. Are chinese caps much better than they used to be?

[bestsystem]

These brands are Taiwanese companies, where pure mainland Chinese caps are ChangX, ChongX, Xicon, Aishi...

Refrain from talking cross strait politics.

[jayjr1105]

Originally Posted by bestsystem

These brands are Taiwanese companies, where pure mainland Chinese caps are ChangX, ChongX, Xicon, Aishi...

Refrain from talking cross strait politics.

Interesting. So are Taiwanese caps pretty good these days? Where can you even buy them?

[Per Hansson]

I would say no, for example Samxon (Man Yue) is based in China.
But both CapXon and Fuhjyyu are based in Taiwan.
I would rate Samxon a few notches above those two!

[bestsystem]

if i see samxon, capxon, taicon/ teapo now, I wont hurry to replace it, also dare to gamble on Aishi but not others.

I have some bulged fujicon caps ( power decoupling & speaker coupling) in my 7 years old AA battery powered Tecsun radio, never exposed to any heat more than body temp, good job!

[Topcat]

Some series of Samxon were known to be problematic (GF was the worst). The GA, GC, and GD Ultra-low ESR caps back in the days were great cost-effective replacements for failed motherboard caps....but have those series have been out of production for nearly a decade now.

[TheLaw]

I haven't been on this forum in years, but, now that I work in power adapter design, with a factory (wholly owned by the company) in China, here's my input:

Samxon, Aishi, Teapo, and Jianghai are quite solid, particularly if you use their higher end caps.

For Samxon: SK and SH. For Aishi: RJ and RZ, and so on...

We've done some accelerated life testing with these caps and have seen no issues. Most important part is to use adequately rated parts in the first place, of course.

In general, I think it's less about brand (per say) and more about BOM cost targets for the product. Naturally, if a company is trying to hit some absurdly low cost target, they will first reach for the lower cost brand (i.e. switch from Japanese to Chinese), and then may even downgrade within the brand to a worse series (i.e. From Samxon SK to GF).

In my opinion, Chinese companies are perfectly capable of making caps as good as Japanese companies, and for cheaper. But often times, when companies are looking for cheap, they just keep digging deeper in the barrel until they've landed on some garbage. So, when they fail, and we replace them, we might want to say "Samxon...Chinese crap!", but it was probably just improperly specified to start with.

My two cents.

Edit: Holy smokes, I haven't posted in 9 years? Where has the time gone?

[ratdude747]

Originally Posted by Topcat

Some series of Samxon were known to be problematic (GF was the worst). The GA, GC, and GD Ultra-low ESR caps back in the days were great cost-effective replacements for failed motherboard caps....but have those series have been out of production for nearly a decade now.

And I still have new ones from a decade ago. Still use them when needed too.

[stj]

how many japanese company's still make japanese caps?

Panasonic has shifted factories to malasia among other places.

[TheLaw]

Originally Posted by stj

how many japanese company's still make japanese caps?

Panasonic has shifted factories to malasia among other places.

Good point. I'm pretty confident I've seen bags from Mouser from Nichicon with Malaysia country of origin. Same for Nippon Chemi-con. I haven't seen a made in Japan Panasonic in about 10 years.

Confirmed below:

https://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/c...m_isots01.html

https://www.chemi-con.co.jp/e/company/bases.html

The enthusiast PC market is still beating the "WE ONLY USE JAPANESE CAPS" drum, somewhat ironically, given that half of them are not made in Japan anyway. The whole thing leaves me feeling a little weird. On one hand, it's true that the Japanese manufacturers have built a solid reputation over many years, whereas the Chinese manufacturers have a more spotty track record. But still feel like there's some baked-in subtle racism (country-ism?) there.

I think advertising "Only Japanese caps!" is sort of the equivalent of slapping a "Fair Trade" sticker on coffee. Keep it simple for the consumer.

Too much politics?

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by TheLaw

Good point. I'm pretty confident I've seen bags from Mouser from Nichicon with Malaysia country of origin. Same for Nippon Chemi-con. I haven't seen a made in Japan Panasonic in about 10 years.

Confirmed below:

https://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/c...m_isots01.html

https://www.chemi-con.co.jp/e/company/bases.html

The enthusiast PC market is still beating the "WE ONLY USE JAPANESE CAPS" drum, somewhat ironically, given that half of them are not made in Japan anyway. The whole thing leaves me feeling a little weird. On one hand, it's true that the Japanese manufacturers have built a solid reputation over many years, whereas the Chinese manufacturers have a more spotty track record. But still feel like there's some baked-in subtle racism (country-ism?) there.

I think advertising "Only Japanese caps!" is sort of the equivalent of slapping a "Fair Trade" sticker on coffee. Keep it simple for the consumer.

Too much politics?

I've bought RUbycon's from digikey periodically in smaller quantities, so they're not in their original packaging....however, the bill of lading that digikey provides has the 'country of origin' on every part....Rubycons are now chinese I fear.

Ohh BTW....Nice seeing you again!

[Capacitor Connoisseur]

Originally Posted by Topcat

I've bought RUbycon's from digikey periodically in smaller quantities, so they're not in their original packaging....however, the bill of lading that digikey provides has the 'country of origin' on every part....Rubycons are now chinese I fear.

Ohh BTW....Nice seeing you again!

The list of Rubycon production sites can be found here: http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/profile/production.html
They have 10 production sites in Japan, 1 in Indonesia. They don't make any capacitors in China. All the Rubycon capacitors I have bought from Digikey have Japan as the country of origin.
Also, "Japanese Capacitor" seems to mean the capacitor is a Japanese brand, it doesn't have to be made in Japan. For example if you buy Japanese brand capacitors that are made in Malaysia, they are still high quality and maintain the quality standards of the company.

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by Capacitor Connoisseur

The list of Rubycon production sites can be found here: http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/profile/production.html
They have 10 production sites in Japan, 1 in Indonesia. They don't make any capacitors in China. All the Rubycon capacitors I have bought from Digikey have Japan as the country of origin.
Also, "Japanese Capacitor" seems to mean the capacitor is a Japanese brand, it doesn't have to be made in Japan. For example if you buy Japanese brand capacitors that are made in Malaysia, they are still high quality and maintain the quality standards of the company.

I've always been a fan of Rubycon, had good luck with them...but for a while, MCZ's were dying awfully young. I didn't save the bill of lading from digikey anymore (threw it away), but there was no mistake it said China....it caught me by surprise, and I double-checked what I was seeing. I'll just write that one off as an 'error' and hope I never see it again. If I do, I'll gladly scan it and post it.

[momaka]

Originally Posted by jayjr1105

I pull a buch of (Teapo, Samxon, Ltec, Taicon, etc.) caps from older power supplies and they always check out very low ESR and capacitance in spec. Are chinese caps much better than they used to be?

Samxon and Taicon in general are just better, IMO... though with Samxon, it really depends which series we are talking about. As was noted by others, the GF series are pretty terrible. I've also seen a few of their other series failed - namely GS (which is GP 85C) and SF (in hot LCD monitors.) GS is actually not a bad series, but they are rather sensitive to heat. Equivalent 85C Japanese GP series tend to last much longer in same applications.

As for Taicon, that's probably the only brand I've seen do almost as well as Japanese capacitors in power supplies - even in applications where these were right next to failed Ltec, Teapo, and CapXon. All in all, I don't see Taicon failed too often.

On that note, let's talk about Ltec: they are quite garbage, IMO. I see the LZG and LZP series break down after 5-10 years in PSU use all the time. Typical failure mode is increasing capacitance (increasing internal leakage) until electrolyte eats the foil away, produces gas, and makes the cap vent... after which is just a matter of time before the electrolyte boils out and the cap looses capacitance / goes high ESR. Now, you might say that 5-10 years doesn't seem so bad... and honestly speaking, it probably isn't considering they are cheaper caps. But from what I've been finding when recapping 5/10/15 year old Delta and HiPro PSUs is that Ltec caps are pretty much a guaranteed to failure. Teapo SC series are in a similar boat.

That said, let's do Teapo next. My personal observation is that they are hit-or-miss, depending on the series. Seems that their SY series are actually not that bad at all. But SC, on the other hand, seem to break down in a similar fashion to Ltec, as mentioned above. SM is kind of similar to SC, but sometimes may do better. SEK series are general purpose 105C caps... but they somehow seem to break down similar to SC series, too, though a bit slower (and quicker without use.) Compared to equivalent Japanese 10C GP series, they don't last anywhere near as long.

As for CapXon... do we really need to talk about them?
I think they are pretty bad overall, regardless of series. I do have a few very old KM series, and somehow they are still in spec and haven't begun to break down. But those are the very few exceptions. Almost everything else I run into with CapXon needs a recap eventually. So I suggest to not trust them and replace when the opportunity is there.

And Fuhjyyu... kind of similar to CapXon, but a bit more hit-or-miss. That is, they seem to be a miss for the most part, but occasionally will have a batch that doesn't fail. Seems their specs are a bit over-stated too. If treated very gently / underloaded, they might do OK - at least that's what I've seen from the few good ones I've pulled from PSUs. On that note, it seems that CWT PSUs always kill them. So I don't know if application there also has to do with their failure. All in all, my suggestion is similar to the one for CapXon: don't trust them and replace when possible. But if you want to play your luck with them: cool them well and make sure they are very lightly loaded.

Last but not least: OST. I think with OST it's the same as with Teapo: hit-or-miss for most series, but a few series are OK. Namely, I find the RLS series to do fairly well in PSUs. But RLP series - not so much. Biostar and a few other motherboard brands used to use RLP series quite a bit. On that note, all I have to say is that the older RLP series seem to fail less often than the newer RLP, but that could have just been my luck / observation. Then there's RLG - the general purpose 105C series. I see them used in PSUs sometimes, but they don't do well there (or anywhere with more heat or high ripple current.) Put them on a linear circuit, though, and they should work pretty well and for a long time. Then there's the RLX series - meant to be ultra-low ESR for motherboards. I find these to be quite unstable, though, so avoid / replace them. And finally, the RLZ series (found on the CPU VRM of some motherboards)... no, just replace them. They will only be bad news down the line.

[mockingbird]

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I just had to comment on Samxon SK.

Our local cable provider started using these in the cable boxes... Where an identical model would hade had Japanese caps, SK our there in their place.

TheLaw, you make a good point, but now that there's a materials shortage around the world, can Chinese companies be trusted? Sure, Japan and China are shame-based cultures as opposed to the guilt-based culture of the west, but if faced with an electrolyte shortage, would UCC release a batch of KZE which they know to be defective?

I think not.

The same can't be said for Samxon.

[Uranium-235]

Originally Posted by mockingbird

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I just had to comment on Samxon SK.

Our local cable provider started using these in the cable boxes... Where an identical model would hade had Japanese caps, SK our there in their place.

TheLaw, you make a good point, but now that there's a materials shortage around the world, can Chinese companies be trusted? Sure, Japan and China are shame-based cultures as opposed to the guilt-based culture of the west, but if faced with an electrolyte shortage, would UCC release a batch of KZE which they know to be defective?

I think not.

The same can't be said for Samxon.

You open your cable boxes to check cap quality when you get a new one?

[Dan81]

Originally Posted by momaka

As for Taicon, that's probably the only brand I've seen do almost as well as Japanese capacitors in power supplies - even in applications where these were right next to failed Ltec, Teapo, and CapXon. All in all, I don't see Taicon failed too often.

Some of ASRock's early boards suffered from myriads of dead Taicons.

Originally Posted by momaka

Last but not least: OST. I think with OST it's the same as with Teapo: hit-or-miss for most series, but a few series are OK. Namely, I find the RLS series to do fairly well in PSUs. But RLP series - not so much. Biostar and a few other motherboard brands used to use RLP series quite a bit. On that note, all I have to say is that the older RLP series seem to fail less often than the newer RLP, but that could have just been my luck / observation. Then there's RLG - the general purpose 105C series. I see them used in PSUs sometimes, but they don't do well there (or anywhere with more heat or high ripple current.) Put them on a linear circuit, though, and they should work pretty well and for a long time. Then there's the RLX series - meant to be ultra-low ESR for motherboards. I find these to be quite unstable, though, so avoid / replace them. And finally, the RLZ series (found on the CPU VRM of some motherboards)... no, just replace them. They will only be bad news down the line.

IIRC RLS and RLP are the most common caps for RAM filtering and low voltage motherboard sections so you're probably good with those. The only times I would worry is anything that is around the CPUs, which is where I see a lot of RLX. Generally, anything OST residing near the RAM, AGP and PCI slots is safe. The only places you'd better replace them is the northbridge zone (if the northbridge is known to run hot) and as I said, CPU.

RLZ... I don't think I've seen them outside of some lesser known Chaintech motherboards from the P4 era like the MPM800, and a EPoX EP-4PLA3I that had them gone bad already. Anything else I've encountered mostly stuck with RLX for CPU. (and ECS is a near perfect example of this.)

[mockingbird]

Originally Posted by Uranium-235

You open your cable boxes to check cap quality when you get a new one?

Nah I find them in the trash... People are abandoning them en masse and adopting inexpensive IPTV subscriptions instead.

The way it works is, if the box was a rental and the person threw it out, it's attached to their account and it's practically worthless unless you somehow trace it back to its owner.

So those boxes get taken apart and scrapped.

The boxes which are not attached can be sold in the classifieds.

Originally Posted by Dan81

Some of ASRock's early boards suffered from myriads of dead Taicons.

Taicon can be good, but good luck finding out who they sourced their electrolyte (and perhaps foil) for that batch. You have some Taicon that behave like Japanese caps, yet you have a different batch from a different year from the same series that will bloat even at normal operation.

Speaking of trash, I am finally re-capping an Abit KT7A I found in the trash around ten years ago (even remember the street and house where it was tossed)... I am experimenting with authentically sourced Nic Components (my first time) NRZJ series. I got them at a reduced price.

Let's see how they hold up. They are made in Japan.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Originally Posted by mockingbird

Taicon can be good, but good luck finding out who they sourced their electrolyte (and perhaps foil) for that batch. You have some Taicon that behave like Japanese caps, yet you have a different batch from a different year from the same series that will bloat even at normal operation.

Reminds me of Chemi-con KZGs, where ones made in 2004 and 2005, possibly have the highest failure rates. I do know that 2004s and 2005s, seem more likely to bulge and leak when I turn around! Even when 2006s and 2007s are not off the hook, I don't know if there were ever so much failures like I would expect to see on very-late-production-run Asus A7N8Xs.

Possibly the same with Fuhjyuu, where 2003 or earlier, look less likely to fail than 2004s and 2005s. But I can't be 100 percent about this!

IIRC, I saw multiple 2004 Antecs with bulging and leaking Fukyuu caps at WinCycle, before the one I knew, disappeared, it was relocated and they acted like a different administration took over.

But my 2003 TruePower 1.0 430W PSU never had a leaking or bulging cap when it was in use, even when I last saw the PSU.

But, OTOH, my 2005 SmartPower 2.0 500W PSU, definitely had a bad Fukyuu cap, I think it was for the +5V standby, as there was a whine heard when in standby with the house very quiet one day in 2011.

[mockingbird]

Originally Posted by RJARRRPCGP

IIRC, I saw multiple 2004 Antecs with bulging and leaking Fukyuu caps at WinCycle, before the one I knew, disappeared, it was relocated and they acted like a different administration took over.

But my 2003 TruePower 1.0 430W PSU never had a leaking or bulging cap when it was in use, even when I last saw the PSU.

But, OTOH, my 2005 SmartPower 2.0 500W PSU, definitely had a bad Fukyuu cap, I think it was for the +5V standby, as there was a whine heard when in standby with the house very quiet one day in 2011.

Yes, I have a SP-450 here (SmartPower) I re-capped years ago... There's something else wrong with it. It's in my "PSUs that have odd issues other than caps pile". It works for the most part, but it had some odd intermittent issue which I don't recall that forced me to take it out of operation. I'm currently using a trash-find (again, I remember the street and house where I found it) Antec EarthWatts EA-500D (Delta version of the EA-500). Most of the caps in it were Japanese and I replaced the Taicons in it with Japanese parts.

I also had an Antec Truepower "New" up until a couple or so weeks ago in my optical drive tower (an Antec 900 fitted with 8 optical drives and 1 floppy -- used for my media testing... see my posts at myce.com).

This PSU was a classifieds purchase, and it's an all-Japanese cap, early Seasonic DC-DC design from 2011 or so. It developed an odd intermittent condition where my HDD started spinning up and down on power up. It was immediately decomissioned and replaced with an Antec "Neo Eco V2" 650W PSU:



Besides the primary, all Cheapo Teapo SC, save for 1 Teapo SY and two Jun Fu WG.

I liked the price of this PSU though, and I liked that it doesn't use the new fancy DC-DC design. I'm just powering some dumb optical drives with it, not an RTX 3070... And the lack of complexity meant that this thing was extraordinarily easy to preemptively re-cap. The soldering on the bottom was beautiful and the alloy was very good and almost fooled me into thinking it was leaded. I think this is an Delta OEM but I can't be sure. The cap dates were mid-2020.

But at least I won't have odd issues like that overly complex Truepower New... Sure it's all very nice... But one little tin whisker can ruin all the fun. This TruePower goes in my "old, expensive PSUs that need to be scrapped, because they are impossible to diagnose and repair due to their complexity" pile.