Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

    Woooaaah!

    http://community.spiceworks.com/topi...en-involved-in
    Attached Files
    Muh-soggy-knee

    Comment


      Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

      I wonder how good the overpressure venting was...
      My first choice in quality Japanese electrolytics is Nippon Chemi-Con, which has been in business since 1931... the quality of electronics is dependent on the quality of the electrolytics.

      Comment


        Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

        Originally posted by japlytic View Post
        I wonder how good the overpressure venting was...
        Yeah ... it must have been LOUD!!!

        I wonder why it just failed all of a sudden, after working for many years.
        Muh-soggy-knee

        Comment


          Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

          ^
          I've had a PSU primary cap go kaboom before (I put a heap of them into a fire and the vent on one didn't do its job and the can just about went into orbit). That cap looks even bigger and badder, though.
          I love putting bad caps and flat batteries in fire and watching them explode!!

          No wonder it doesn't work! You installed the jumper wires backwards

          Main PC: Core i7 3770K 3.5GHz, Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H-MVP, 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600, 240GB Intel 335 Series SSD, 750GB WD HDD, Sony Optiarc DVD RW, Palit nVidia GTX660 Ti, CoolerMaster N200 Case, Delta DPS-600MB 600W PSU, Hauppauge TV Tuner, Windows 7 Home Premium

          Office PC: HP ProLiant ML150 G3, 2x Xeon E5335 2GHz, 4GB DDR2 RAM, 120GB Intel 530 SSD, 2x 250GB HDD, 2x 450GB 15K SAS HDD in RAID 1, 1x 2TB HDD, nVidia 8400GS, Delta DPS-650BB 650W PSU, Windows 7 Pro

          Comment


            Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

            I found this confusing. These orange Teapo SEK came out of a CWT ISO series PSU. They were on the 3.3V rail. They were getting cooked by a 15Ω resistor wedged between them, they read high capacitance. They have all the same values and codes, and were both manufactured in November, 2006. So....why do they have different rubber seals?! I found this pretty bizarre.
            Attached Files

            Comment


              Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

              Originally posted by Pentium4 View Post
              I found this confusing. These orange Teapo SEK came out of a CWT ISO series PSU. They were on the 3.3V rail. They were getting cooked by a 15Ω resistor wedged between them, they read high capacitance. They have all the same values and codes, and were both manufactured in November, 2006. So....why do they have different rubber seals?! I found this pretty bizarre.
              Variations from batch to batch, or the seal is put on the other way around. Like, transistors from different batches. Even though they have the same P/N, they will have much different HFE value variations than transistors from the same batch.
              Muh-soggy-knee

              Comment


                Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

                I've never seen an orange Teapo SEK until now.

                Those bungs aren't too consistent, though, one just has the concentric bullseye marked into it. But I've seen some Teapos with a bung very similar to Rubycon and NCC bungs. The high capacitance means that the dielectric is significantly thinned.

                As to why they have different bungs...

                To the best of my knowledge, the cheaper manufactures based in Taiwan and China don't actually process most of their materials in-house. They purchase them from other companies and only do the assembling and sleeving of the capacitors, the exception being Yageo's cans; I think with their unique vent that they produce their own cans, but that's it. Most of those companies, unlike the good Japanese brands, are too cheap to do thorough QC testing themselves, or rather the concept itself is foreign or new to them (why you see inconsistent and exaggerated ratings in the datasheets). This is exactly why they are so inconsistent in quality. They are not always buying their materials from the same grade of manufactures so of course their quality is going to vary but will, as a general statement, remain poor because they are only out to turn profits, not produce quality. On the other hand, they wouldn't be in business if all their products were complete crap (that's why Sacon had to change their company name so many times).

                One of the primary issues is the quality of the purity in the aluminum foil. Not only does it fail to meet Dapo's standard but the excessive impurities (such as too much copper) in the aluminum spell certain doom for their capacitors and can ignite chemical reactions (reacting negatively with the cheap, water-based alkalis, acids, or salts used in the electrolyte composition - aluminum has the unfortunate tendency to do that) that cause hydrogen gas to form even on the shelf. Added to that, the electrolyte itself is of poor quality and does not have the proper compounds, cathode depolarizers, or neutralizers to reduce the generation of hydrogen gas and protect the aluminum oxide layer from electrolyte that is aggressive to the oxide film and to the other materials.

                Last but not least, poor bungs guarantee that the capacitors will dry up very fast or that they will certainly leak over time. Most of the time, the good brands avoid this by using better quality seals, very high purity aluminum foil, and electrolyte with the right oxidizers to preclude hydrogen gas and keep the oxide layer (on the anode) stable. But there's more to it than that.

                Achieving good chemical stability relative to electrolyte of internally low electrical resistance with a good dielectric constant and strength is by no means of the imagination an easy feat. This is why the good brands are only a few among the many, many crap brands. And there are thousands of different combinations when it comes to the types of solvents used for the electrolyte, if not more, and some simply have better long term characteristics and stability than others. This is how it's possible for even the "good" brands to have "bad" series. There's simply only so much even the rigorous stress testing can do to foretell long term stability, which is why polymers exist. Their electronic conduction, compared to the ionic conduction of lytics, is much better - the difference is in the order of a hundred fold or more.

                Comment


                  Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

                  Originally posted by Wester547 View Post
                  They purchase them from other companies and only do the assembling and sleeving of the capacitors, the exception being Yageo's cans;
                  Don't Yageo caps have the Teapo like vent? The "Y" shape, with three dots/ticks.

                  P.S. You have done 666 posts! xD
                  Muh-soggy-knee

                  Comment


                    Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

                    Originally posted by ben7 View Post
                    Don't Yageo caps have the Teapo like vent? The "Y" shape, with three dots/ticks.

                    P.S. You have done 666 posts! xD
                    I believe Yageo acquired Teapo in 1996, but as far as I can remember, Teapo had a very similar type of vent even prior to the merger so I meant Teapo and/or Yageo when I said that.

                    Not anymore I don't. :P

                    Comment


                      Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

                      Originally posted by Pentium4 View Post
                      I found this confusing. These orange Teapo SEK came out of a CWT ISO series PSU. They were on the 3.3V rail. They were getting cooked by a 15Ω resistor wedged between them, they read high capacitance. They have all the same values and codes, and were both manufactured in November, 2006. So....why do they have different rubber seals?! I found this pretty bizarre.
                      Originally posted by Wester547 View Post
                      I've never seen an orange Teapo SEK until now.

                      Believe it or not, CWT wanted the 3.3V caps to be orange colored for those ISO psus. I have proof:

                      1st unit:
                      https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...3&d=1389575653

                      5V: 2x 2200uF 10V black colored JunFu HK (GP series)
                      3.3V: 2x 2200uF 6.3V orange colored JunFu HK

                      2nd unit:
                      https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1432852977

                      https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1432852977

                      https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1432852977

                      5V: 2x 2200uF 10V black colored Koshin KRM
                      3.3V: 2x 2200uF 6.3V orange colored Koshin KRM
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                        Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

                        Yeah, I wonder why they do that? I've also of course seen Orange Fuhjjyu TN as well.

                        Comment


                          Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

                          Originally posted by goodpsusearch View Post
                          Believe it or not, CWT wanted the 3.3V caps to be orange colored for those ISO psus.
                          ...
                          That is some really really interesting findings!

                          I wonder if they wanted that because the wires on the 3.3V rail are also orange. Perhaps to make it easier for the workers to put those caps in the right spots for the 3.3V rail?

                          Originally posted by Pentium4
                          I've also of course seen Orange Fuhjjyu TN as well.
                          My Turbolink PSU has orange Fuhjyyu TNR:
                          https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...2&d=1407035562
                          ...
                          but apparently not all the time:
                          https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1221
                          https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39222

                          Comment


                            Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

                            Sanyo WF, datecode 6N, I guess november 2006. HP Compaq DX2300 Microtower with extra fan just above them. PSU is LiteOn PS-5251-08. Caps are OK inside. Seems like single forward or something like that, there is one big primary transistor only.
                            Attached Files
                            Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

                            Exclusive caps, meters and more!
                            Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!

                            Comment


                              Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

                              Yup... Suncon WF is like NCC KZJ... doesn't take to heat well at all, and doesn't always fare well sitting in storage either. I see that's a Microstar LGA775 board. What CPU was it powering? If it was a Pentium D, I could attribute the failure to a hot VRM section in this subject of happenstance.

                              EDIT: WGs should be fine. WFs are the trouble makers.
                              Last edited by Wester547; 06-04-2015, 12:42 PM.

                              Comment


                                Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

                                Celeron D, should not heat that much. Just loking after some Pentium Dual-Core to place in there…

                                WG are good? Suncon still lists them as active series…
                                Last edited by Behemot; 06-04-2015, 12:38 PM.
                                Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

                                Exclusive caps, meters and more!
                                Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!

                                Comment


                                  Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

                                  If it was being powered with a quality PSU then I'd say worse than KZJ if they failed on the VRM high. I've seen KZG last 50,000 hours on the VRM high in a mini ATX chassis with poor airflow, with a low ripple In Win unit powering it.

                                  Comment


                                    Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

                                    It's one of those strange topologies with single switcher and no Pi coil so who knows what ripple was there.
                                    Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

                                    Exclusive caps, meters and more!
                                    Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!

                                    Comment


                                      Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

                                      Originally posted by Behemot View Post
                                      Sanyo WF, datecode 6N, I guess november 2006. HP Compaq DX2300 Microtower with extra fan just above them.
                                      Is that an Intel DG33xx motherboard or similar by any chance?

                                      Reason I ask is because I have one like it as well. VRM ran so hot that it started killing FETs after a while (that's the one you sent me Pentium4 ). I wouldn't be surprised if those Sanyo WF caps were abused by lots of heat. Don't be mistaken by the fan above them. If it is a mini-tower or SFF, chances are it ran hot enough inside to boil an egg without water. I also have another Intel i965 motherboard. That one was out of a HP DC7700 mini-tower. All of the Rubycon MCZ around the VRM were done to a crisp. VRM had free-standing "hands-in-the-air like you don't care" MOSFETs .

                                      Something tells me Intel sucks at designing VRMs. Or maybe not exactly... but just something to consider before you blame the caps.
                                      Last edited by momaka; 06-05-2015, 09:35 PM.

                                      Comment


                                        Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

                                        ^ That's a MS-7336 with a three-phase VRM and three FETs per phase. I'm not aware of Microstar designing a VRM that qualifies for such depths of suckage and don't think it would have been a problem thermally unless the fans seized. And it was a full size desktop (the HP Compaq DX2300 microtower), to my knowledge.

                                        "Hands-in-the-air like you don't care"...

                                        I noticed many old Dell and Intel (Foxconn or Flextronics) 850 series motherboards use free-standing FETs in the VRM output as well but with lower speed Pentium 4 Willamettes, Pentium 4 Northwoods, and good airflow, they don't actually run that hot in my experience, provided it's a three-phase buck converter with three FETs per phase and that the copper planes are thick.
                                        Last edited by Wester547; 06-05-2015, 10:28 PM.

                                        Comment


                                          Re: The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

                                          Originally posted by Wester547 View Post
                                          ^ That's a MS-7336 with a three-phase VRM and three FETs per phase.
                                          You are right again. I should have done my research for the DX2000 before commenting.
                                          Looking closer at the picture, the VRM layout on the MSI motherboard looks very similar to my DG33SX, but definitely not the same. In particular, the MOSFETs appear to be soldered on much bigger copper planes. On my DG33SX, they are ridiculously small.

                                          And yes, MSI usually designs their VRMs very well, so then I guess those WFs probably failed all on their own then.

                                          Originally posted by Wester547 View Post
                                          I noticed many old Dell and Intel (Foxconn or Flextronics) 850 series motherboards use free-standing FETs in the VRM output as well but with lower speed Pentium 4 Willamettes, Pentium 4 Northwoods, and good airflow, they don't actually run that hot in my experience, provided it's a three-phase buck converter with three FETs per phase.
                                          Indeed.

                                          However, when it comes to Prescott and Pentium D, you will want things done more seriously. My guess is that's what killed the MCZs on the DC7700 motherboard I got from eBay.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X