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Old 10-14-2016, 12:29 PM   #1
eccerr0r
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Default USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

Another one of these silly patented methods to lock out manufacturers... It goes both ways I suppose, prevents crappy chargers but...

LOCKS OUT THE TINKERER!

Anyone know if these 9V 2A (18W) USB charger protocol has been hacked? I suppose this shouldn't be too hard to reverse engineer (at least I would think it is) - supposedly these high speed charge capable devices can poll the charger whether it supports 18W and then manually switches to this mode, and then the charger can automatically and immediately shut off 9V when the device gets unplugged.

What I'm wondering is if these chargers have a USB host implementation in it... would think that it needs to.
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Old 10-28-2016, 05:21 AM   #2
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Default Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

Are you talking about USB Type-C chargers here? The USB Type-C specification can be programmed to deliver up to 20V and a maximum of 5A through negotiation on the configuration channel.
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Old 10-28-2016, 07:16 AM   #3
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Default Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

No, this is an older quick charger standard, uses a regular USB-A 4-pin connector.
I believe Qualcomm is holding this patent.

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/snapdr...logy-explained

Last edited by eccerr0r; 10-28-2016 at 07:21 AM..
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Old 05-28-2022, 08:28 PM   #4
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Default Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

Hmm... knew I posted something about this before.

Just wondering if anyone did some experiments with this. As far as I can tell, at 18W with 4+ volt lithium ion cells, at 100% conversion efficiency (HAH) these charger can pump 4 amperes into a cell phone battery. This is insane, though most smartphones are like 4Ah or so so this would be near 1C charge rate.

However I've noticed that though it does occasionally hit 1C charge rate, frequently it drops down to 8W charging. I've never been able to see on charging apps whenever it hits 1C charge rate, is this typical for most phones to simply try to reduce heat generation, and never use 1C charge rate when someone's using the phone?

(and when the phone is not being used, it will then use 1C charge rate? But not always? Have you caught your phone charging at 1C?)
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Old 05-29-2022, 04:09 AM   #5
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Default Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

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Old 05-29-2022, 04:51 AM   #6
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Default Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

USB-C is a connector,

your refering to "QC2.0 or 3.0" or similar which is a communication protocol to command the charger to increase output.
most QC compatable chargers have a regular TYPE-A socket on them.

if you go to sites like MAXIM you can download datasheets for charger chips that support these things
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Old 05-29-2022, 07:59 AM   #7
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Default Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

With Quick Charge, they are using higher charging voltages than 5V in order to be able to not increase cable and connector size.
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Old 05-29-2022, 09:30 AM   #8
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Default Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

USB-C charging spec (versus USB-C connector) is better than QC2/QC3, alas yes I'm only talking about QC2/QC3 which many phones appear to still use over the USB-C charging spec, even if it has a USB-C connector... my crap cheap phone is such, it has a USB-C connector but uses the QC protocol over the USB-C connector.

It appears the USB-C charge protocol has been either documented or hacked, was curious about QC protocol initially... now that I have three QC chargers it's not much of an issue for me anymore, though still curious...

Still surprised my 8-year old phone will still occasionally draw 17W from the wall through its adapter to charge its battery.... at 17W it must be charging quite close to 1C charge rate with its 3Ah battery pack.

My "new" crapphone also with QC will likewise occasionally draw 17W+ from the wall, again with efficiency loss this is expected. A 5Ah battery pack, dumping 4A into the pack is not quite 1C but that's what's necessary to fill the pack closer to an hour instead of several hours...
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Old 05-29-2022, 09:51 AM   #9
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Default Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

all the fucking phone makers have their own protocols btw,
samsung, htc, apple etc.
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Old 05-29-2022, 04:00 PM   #10
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Default Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

QC and USB-C charging are "standards" ... but as usual, there are so many standards to choose from.
Seems Asus and OnePlus seem to use the same QC protocol and the chargers can be swapped without an issue...
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Old 05-30-2022, 04:02 AM   #11
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Default Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

iPhone and iPad use there own system that does seem to work like it has been described the most that you can charge with is 2.5 amps but your voltage has to be no higher than 5.25 volts or it turns off and refuses to charge correctly anymore until you power cycle it

So I do not have the voltage higher than 5.21 volts and I use a medical grade switching power supply that has a voltage controller circuit that is very easily adjusted to what ever voltage from 4.75 to 5.75 volts

Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 05-30-2022 at 04:06 AM..
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Old 05-30-2022, 04:28 AM   #12
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Default Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

apple stuff is easy, you indicate the charger current with 4 resistors
2 voltage dividers - one for each data pin.
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Old 05-30-2022, 04:36 AM   #13
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Default Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
apple stuff is easy, you indicate the charger current with 4 resistors
2 voltage dividers - one for each data pin.
I've done so on one of my solar chargers. Works perfect.
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Old 05-30-2022, 04:59 AM   #14
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Default Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

I was referring to the charging protocol for charging with USB C type chargers I have a couple of them they do not charge any different than a usb a type cable I have a IPhone SE 2020 that came with a USB C cable

I have one of those usb tester that shows you what charging profile and it not show it as the iPhone profile the newer iPad does not show up this way either so I do not what is up with this

I know that the device works correctly because I have the charging devices that are 9 12 15 and 20 volt and they show up correctly

Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 05-30-2022 at 05:07 AM..
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Old 05-30-2022, 09:18 AM   #15
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Default Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

I think my Asus and Oneplus, despite being QC, will also happily draw 10W from a 5V USB brick. Alas, I was more interested in how QC works as a standard USB power brick better not be outputting 9V if not asked for -- for those non QC devices that would release magic smoke at 9V.

I really need to get a bona fide USB volt/current meter, but I'm pretty sure pumping 18W via 5V will make a lot of USB cords cry foul when trying to pass more than 3A. At 9V it's a lot more manageable.
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Old 05-30-2022, 12:27 PM   #16
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Default Re: USB "Quick" 18W charger ... protocol

Quote:
Originally Posted by eccerr0r View Post
….—>I really need to get a bona fide USB volt/current meter, but I'm pretty sure pumping 18W via 5V will make a lot of USB cords cry foul when trying to pass more than 3A. At 9V it's a lot more manageable.
When you find one that is good please post a link to one because

I have tried a couple of them and not very impressed with them because they are very picky about showing the charging type if it has a usb type a this is the only ones that I can find but they also have usb type c also
which to me is not going the way to go you have to find a usb type c input and a usb type c output and no other type of usb connectors on it for best results ( but I have not yet found one to buy )

I have tried to hack a couple of them and each time I have fry something on the board or destroy the boards because most of the ones that I have tried to do there a minimum of two boards and one of them had three of them and the components are so tightly packed together I have given up trying to hack them just going to make a wall one into a table model and add a cooling fan and be done with it

Because I on having a couple devices that are meant for this type of charger

Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 05-30-2022 at 12:39 PM..
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