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Bad caps in HP Pavilion t370.nl?

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    Bad caps in HP Pavilion t370.nl?

    Two days ago I freed my computer from a very bad Trojan (PRORAT) and everything worked fine again until this morning. I expected to find my computer busy with downloading but it was out. I did put it on again and I saw the familiar HP Pavilion welcome screen (please inform me if somebody knows how to turn that off!), but the computer did shut down instead of booting Windows XP. I looked on the website from HP and followed their instructions like disconnecting the hard drive but the behaviour was the same. I checked all cables, but everything looks fine. So, I concluded that something went wrong before the booting process started. Then I noticed that each time I switched on the computer it did shut down faster. That gave me the idea that faulty capacitors could be the cause. I never heard before about this problem and I know hardly anything about hardware, however I'm capable to assemble a computer… At least the following symptoms are obvious:

    1) Windows XP started booting twice after the computer was out for some hours.
    2) It is reproducible that the computer shuts down much faster after the first booting attempt.
    3) It is possible to access the Bios when the computer was out for some time, but also then it shuts down after 5 up to 10 seconds.
    4) None of the capacitors looks bulged, burst etc, however one has some black stuff where the plastic cover starts but this can be dust as well. Anyhow, I red on some others forums that capacitors can be bad even when no visual sign are present.

    I have a HP Pavilion t370.nl with a MSI MS-6577 v2.1 motherboard (mobo). I hope this information from HP is correct. I bought my computer in December 2003, but I believe it was produced around September because the drivers where several months old. It is clear that MSI mobo's are affected in general, but I can't find any specific information about my mobo, probably because it was exclusively produced for HP, like my TV tuner card etc.
    I hope that somebody has more information about my motherboard or at least can confirm that the symptoms point in the direction of faulty capacitors.

    I hope that somebody has more information about my motherboard or at least can confirm that the symptoms point in the direction of faulty capacitors. This is a great website and I consider this a high quality forum! It is good that somebody brings together all information about what seems to be a big cover-up!

    Michael

    #2
    The MS-6577 was a common board for bad caps, I've seen quite a few of them. What are the brand names on the actual caps? You might also try a clean install of the OS and see what that does. Yes, more than not, caps can be bad without showing physical signs.
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      #3
      Pavilion t370.nl, Possible bad caps

      Thank you Topcat for your fast reply. I would like to inform you about the brand names from the caps, but the problem is that I have still guarantee, so my computer will be sent tomorrow to HP. The 'carves' on top, colours (bleu/green) and black printings resemble quite well the pictures shown on many sites, but I guess there exist so many vendors that this is quite irrelevant. Nothing is written on top and I can't read what's written on the side without disconnecting the motherboard (mobo), which probably would void my guarantee. I tried nevertheless unsuccessfully to read the text with a small mirror.
      The information on many sites suggests that most bad caps where used in 2002 and 2003, but apparently the show goes on. Maybe this is because of the economical recession that some vendors try to save a few dollar cents on each motherboard. You can be sure that I will post a message if I get a new mobo or more relevant: if any caps on my mobo are replaced! I will not buy another computer from HP. They use too many weird components. I'll check that the mobo in my next computer has good caps and I hope for the general public that this site contributes to higher production standards.
      I would appreciate very much if you can tell me where I can find explicit information about bad caps on my mobo on internet.

      Greetings,

      Michael

      Comment


        #4
        Additional info on HP Pavilion t370.nl

        It is quite impossible to install Windows XP again Topcat because my computer shuts down almost every time before Windows is started. I tried to boot with a bootable Linux CD with Knoppix and a Dos floppy, but also these approaches did not work out. As mentioned before, I can could only access the Bios for a couple of seconds.
        There is the possibility that the powersupply causes the problems, but the fact that the computer shuts down much faster when I put it on again immediately again indicates in my opinion that it is more likely capacitor related. I do not see why the powersupply would function 'better' once after the computer was out for a longer period of time... Alas, my time-zone (Europe) shuts down, but I look forward to recieve more information.

        Michael

        Comment


          #5
          make sure the hsf is properly installed.

          Comment


            #6
            HSF looks fine

            :|

            I guess HSF is an abbreviation for Heat Sink Fan? I'm a newbie if it concerns English abbreviated computer related terms, but the answer is yes: my HSF looks fine and functions good. I phoned today the technical helpdesk from HP in my country (The Netherlands) and described the symptoms. The advised me to de-charge my mobo. I'll try it this evening and I hope it helps. But something is definitely not alright with the caps if the problem reoccurs during the next months. I asked the guy from the helpdesk if he works directly for HP or that he works for a third party service supplier. His answer was: “I'm not entitled to answer this question…” and he was really interested to more about faulty capacitors!

            Comment


              #7
              he probably means clear cmos.
              and you are correct about the hsf.

              Comment


                #8
                Time to return computer to HP



                I tried all sugestions from the HP technical helpdesk, like removing the charge from the mobo and resetting the BIOS etc, but my computer shuts down faster and faster, so I hope they collect it soon and I'll check if they replaced any cap when it is returned. Anyway, thanks for all sugestions from forum menbers and at least I know that I should sometimes check if no caps have swollen heads etc.

                Michael

                Comment


                  #9
                  Mobo gone...

                  The technical repair centre, used by HP in The Netherlands, confirmed this morning that my mobo is gone. They confirmed that it is most likely that one or more caps failed and that the caps will be replaced. So, I asked if they can use Japanese caps. The answer was elucidating: “Guess not, we use what HP gives us!” I know some people with influence in Dutch politics and I'll try to get this item via them on the agenda from the European Parliament (EP). It is ridiculous that consumer rights are violated on this scale and it is bad for the environment too!

                  Michael

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Sorry to hear about your problems. It will be interesting to see how a major like HP deals with this issue, whether they will just install another board the same or provide a real solution.

                    I guess the best thing for you to do will be to post the type of new board they put in and details of the caps on that board and we can tell you how long it will last.

                    Personally, if they are still going with MSI i would forget it and buy another motherboard to install. At the moment i am installing intel original motherboards only in new computers because the caps are consistently from quality manufacturers. I am not sure of your case layout. Probably it will only fit a micro atx board with 3 pci slots. If so and you dont want to buy a bigger case then the Intel D865GLCL would probably be a good choice but pls check first. Also to check your i/o plate (where you plug your mouse and stuff in) can be detached to allow the one for the new board to be attached if different than the HP layout.

                    Regarding making an issue in the EP, great idea. Excellent also the environmental issue (I never thought of that). Imagine the numbers of mobos (full of toxins) that just get trashed due to the capacitor issue.

                    The thing is many consumers are not aware of the problem or probably would not understand it. If it was something more obvious like the computer catching fire or smoking badly, the size of the epidemic would be much more obvious to the EU.

                    Just think, the general non technical computer user's computer has problems starting, so it gets taken for service, once it is fixed he/she does not enquire about the exact cause of the problem (or probably would not understand it anyway, or was advised only "defective motherboard") so another case of capacitor failure is hidden from the consumer.

                    Really manufacturers should be forced to have their products which contain capacitors certified by EU inspectors that the caps used on the product meet certain standards.

                    There are standards for Capacitors for fluorescent lights but you could see that there would be action there because of the safety factor. Here is a URL with some mention of that standard.



                    Probably the only way to get this moving would be to make a class action in the european courts against manufacturers. MSI would be a good target
                    capacitor lab yachtmati techmati

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yes. time for action!

                      Thanks for your reaction willawake. I have a tree year service contract and my computer is used a lot for compiling sources, running databases etc, so if HP replaces the mobo with a similar one (MSI), or as intended replaces the caps with bad ones again, then it should break down within a reasonable period of time again. I'll buy another computer anyway within 3 years, but my nephews will like this one, so I guess my brother who has the skills – will replace the caps if necessary. But it would be nice if European legislation can be changed before I need another mobo. Many people don't realize that producing a computer costs 250 Kg stone coal, produces some kilograms of toxic waste and requires 1400 L of highly purified water. So, it benefits the environment indeed when computers/mobos survive one or two years longer! I'll look into your sugestions about replacing the MSI mobo when my service contract with HP expires.

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