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    My way to recap

    Hi!

    I would like to hear some opinions about my way of doing a recap.
    First of all I've done this on all recaps and I never failed
    Here's the way I do it, I cut off the capacitor with a plier about 1/3 of the cap height from the board then I carefully lift what's left of the capacitor leaving to legs on the board, then I just grip one leg at a time with a plier and heat with the soldering iron on the other side of the board and very carefully drag them out one by one.
    Think this will save lot's of vias for those who isn't to familiar with a soldering iron.
    what's good about this?
    Since you just heat once the chance that the vias are destroyed are at a minimum.
    Ofcourse on some boards caps are mounted pretty close so getting the plier there could be a problem

    Northern Swedish way of doing it

    #2
    Re: My way to recap

    where do you get your caps in sweden? what brands do they have?
    capacitor lab yachtmati techmati

    Comment


      #3
      Re: My way to recap

      Mostly Farnell and Elfa, Farnell is faster most of the time, you got the package day after order and they got most of the components I need and their prices are good.
      Think I ordered panasonic last time but have tried Robycon also.
      It's not that often I recap so when it comes to what is "best brand choise" I can't tell , were I work we got about 100 computers running and that includes all student computers so there is some recapping once in a while.
      A good way to learn about this is to read application notes on different DC/DC-converters used on motherboards, interesting reading about specs for output filter caps etc etc, try it.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: My way to recap

        I found your method of cap removal interesting. Do all the lead removals leave a clean hole?

        It does sound messy cutting the caps, but otherwise seems a good way.

        You mention application notes for DC to DC converters. These are many and varied . Do you have any particularly good links to some of these?

        I am better equipped and experienced than most. Been soldering for fifty years and involved in PCB design and manufacturing. So I find the solder sucker (solderpult) and 0.8 mm PCB drill very effective for reccapping. Drill is used to clean out vias that are difficult, incompletely sucked out.

        Good to read your input.
        Last edited by davmax; 12-19-2005, 06:07 PM.
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          #5
          Re: My way to recap

          Hi davmax!

          Do all the lead removals leave a clean hole?
          Not always but most of the time, I use solder sucker and a small drill to clear the via too.
          It does sound messy cutting the caps, but otherwise seems a good way.
          Yes sometimes it is but I used to wear thin rubber gloves when I do this, caps are quite dry so there isn't much.
          Do you have any particularly good links to some of these?
          I'm at work right now and all links and downloaded application notes is at home, I'll be back with them as soon as I get back home.
          I discovered the good thing with application notes when i was repairing a dead Jetway board for some years ago, there was a 10 ohm resistor SMD 0603 in series with the Vcc to the driver ic that was oc, without data sheet or application notes it would have been almost impossible to repair I would say.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: My way to recap

            Drills aren't recommended here for clearing holes for the new capacitor's leads, but if it works it works.
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              #7
              Re: My way to recap

              Hi Newbie2!

              You are right drills should be used with care, most of the solder comes out with a solder sucker but sometimes its hard to get rid of the very last in a through hole via, I think more harm will be done with to much heat.
              What do you mean by "but if it works it works"?
              Last edited by Decade; 12-21-2005, 12:25 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: My way to recap

                Originally posted by Decade
                Hi Newbie2!

                You are right drills should be used with care, most of the solder comes out with a solder sucker but sometimes its hard to get rid of the very last in a through hole via, I think more harm will be done with to much heat.
                What do you mean by "but if it works it works"?
                I don't know why i use "but if it works it works" but it think it doesn't make any sense.
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                  #9
                  Re: My way to recap

                  I know what you mean Newbie2.
                  It's easy to totally destroy one of these tiny vias so your words were just right.
                  I would like to have more feedback if anyone else have tried my recapping method maybe I just had big luck all the time
                  Promised to check some application notes and put up the links here, hopefully it is to any help for someone.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: My way to recap

                    i can tell you firsthand drilling out the solder is foolish.
                    someone tried that on a logic board on a hitachi seiki mill.
                    i worked 11 hours straight to save it.the idiot that drilled it got fired!
                    that board was for a custom system and nearly the purest form of unobtainiun.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: My way to recap

                      Never drill the holes out, it's just asking for disaster. I also strongly recommend against the solder sucker, unless its a pneumatic. Mechanical (spring loaded) suckers can also destroy boards easily. Not to mention they're messy. They drop solder boogers all over the board. If you miss some and they're sitting on the CPU socket pins, there's a strong chance you'll see smoke the first time you power it up. I still swear by the stainless pick method. I can clear a hole with the pick faster than one can clear one with a pneumatic sucker.
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                        #12
                        Re: My way to recap

                        Originally posted by kc8adu
                        i can tell you firsthand drilling out the solder is foolish.
                        someone tried that on a logic board on a hitachi seiki mill.
                        i worked 11 hours straight to save it.the idiot that drilled it got fired!
                        that board was for a custom system and nearly the purest form of unobtainiun.
                        OMG! Working 11 hours straight to save a logic board on a htachi seiki mill. What things did you do to it to save it during 11 hours of work?

                        Originally posted by Topcat
                        Never drill the holes out, it's just asking for disaster. I also strongly recommend against the solder sucker, unless its a pneumatic. Mechanical (spring loaded) suckers can also destroy boards easily. Not to mention they're messy. They drop solder boogers all over the board. If you miss some and they're sitting on the CPU socket pins, there's a strong chance you'll see smoke the first time you power it up. I still swear by the stainless pick method. I can clear a hole with the pick faster than one can clear one with a pneumatic sucker.
                        Topcat has the most knowledge here and wrote things to teach us how to successfully recap a motherboard.
                        My gaming PC:
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                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: My way to recap

                          i can tell you firsthand drilling out the solder is foolish.
                          Hi kc8adu!

                          Yes it it folish but didn't say I was drilling I said that I was using a drill and I don't use a drilling machine it's only by hand, using a drilling machine is probably the best way to destroy a via.
                          The only thing I do is to clear the hole if there is any solder left just to get the legs through.
                          I've been working ”some” years with radar PCB design so I do know how brittle these vias are, I'm sorry if I said something that was misleading so to those who intend to use a drill, don't do it it's crazy!!

                          I also strongly recommend against the solder sucker, unless its a pneumatic. Mechanical (spring loaded) suckers can also destroy boards easily. Not to mention they're messy. They drop solder boogers all over the board. If you miss some and they're sitting on the CPU socket pins, there's a strong chance you'll see smoke the first time you power it up. I still swear by the stainless pick method. I can clear a hole with the pick faster than one can clear one with a pneumatic sucker.
                          Hi topcat!
                          I agree but what do you say to those that doesn't have those tools like pneumatic suckers?
                          I think that quite a big number of the forum members don't have any pneumatic sucker, I got one because I work with this in my profession but I'm seldom using it. I read the recomended way to remove caps in
                          ”How-to's to- removal” a solder sucker is what they use nothing about what kind of sucker.
                          I'll try your stainless pick method sounds like a good way.

                          Topcat has the most knowledge here and wrote things to teach us how to successfully recap a motherboard.
                          Hi newbie2!
                          Does this mean that it's just a waste of time to have any other ideas?
                          I was just sharing my experience on how to recap and I would be more than happy if someone got helped by my method, never said that this is the way to do it.
                          English is not my mother tongue so please have patience if something looks offensive I can guarantee that it is not my meaning.
                          Last edited by Decade; 12-22-2005, 02:29 AM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: My way to recap

                            I am sure that you have had much experience Topcat. My experience is a little different in that I have used a a solder sucker for decades, the one I use does not spray solder. Working on the back side of the board with both the soldering iron and the soldersucker, it sucks directly from the tip of the soldering iron bit. I have just completed two motherboards without the slightest problem using both the solder sucker and a drill, yes a drill that is the right size and just clears the hole out.

                            When I have finished soldering the cap leads are cut off. I notice that sometimes this tends to leave a larger than desired solder diameter on those vias surrounded by earth plane. To remedy this I place the soldering on an offending lead and quickly flow the solder. This in fact draws the solder over the top of the cut lead and makes it hard to distinguish the soldering from original. I always clean up any flux with a lint free rag moistened with methylated spirits.

                            I was stunned to read about the many hours recovering a drilled board. I suspect that damage was achieved by someone using incorrect technique or drill bit.

                            What ever any of us do with motherboards we would all agree that great care must be taken.
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                              #15
                              Re: My way to recap

                              Originally posted by davmax
                              I am sure that you have had much experience Topcat. My experience is a little different in that I have used a a solder sucker for decades, the one I use does not spray solder. Working on the back side of the board with both the soldering iron and the soldersucker, it sucks directly from the tip of the soldering iron bit. I have just completed two motherboards without the slightest problem using both the solder sucker and a drill, yes a drill that is the right size and just clears the hole out.
                              I'm just wondering WHY.... If you have a pneumatic solder sucker, you'd have no need to drill them out. No offense, but drilling a motherboard is just dumb. There's absolutely no need for it. There's also no such thing as a mechanical solder sucker that doesnt drop solder flakes and boogers.

                              The reason I'm so publicly against drilling boards is because a lot of inexperienced people come here for advise about recapping boards. Drilling holes in motherboards is a bad idea for experienced techs, and just plain stupid for an inexperienced one. I certainly don't want people ruining their boards over advise that came from here, hence the drill technique is most definitely NOT promoted here. The stainless pick is cheap, quickest, and most effective. I'm yet to meet a hole on the thickest and heaviest ground plane that I couldn't get a pick through.
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                                #16
                                Re: My way to recap

                                Topcat I have no argument with your method that you have used so well. I just found working on both sides of the board difficult. Having said that I believe that I can work your pick idea from the back of the board so that I can clearly see and manage both pick and soldering iron.

                                Quote
                                I'm just wondering WHY.... If you have a pneumatic solder sucker, you'd have no need to drill them out. No offense, but drilling a motherboard is just dumb. There's absolutely no need for it. There's also no such thing as a mechanical solder sucker that doesnt drop solder flakes and boogers.

                                1. There is an occasional hole that will not clean out completely with my solder sucker. Hence the drill. First a drill bit is chosen that slides through a cleared hole then it is run through partly cleared holes. It would be bad news to attempt drilling on a full hole, the drill bit would drift. I totally agree that the inexperienced should never attempt or be encouraged to take up a drill.
                                2. I do own a solder sucker that does not drop flakes etc. Because there is obviously much experience behind what you say and my solder sucker is getting close to a useby date, I went and bought an equivalent and discovered why solder flakes do and do not occur. My solder sucker is not self cleaning so everything is drawn inside and held there. It is not long in a desoldering process that I have to use a rod to push solder from the inside of the tip to the inside of the sucker, then I unscew the head and remove all remnant solder. Now the new sucker is very different, it is self cleaning and therefore pushes out scraps/flakes of solder each time it is loaded. I prefer my old unit, it works well and definitely does not spread solder.
                                3 "drilling a motherboard is just dumb" Is this expression and others that followed in the spirit of the forum? Let me quote Decade in a previous post:
                                Hi newbie2!
                                "Does this mean that it's just a waste of time to have any other ideas?
                                I was just sharing my experience on how to recap and I would be more than happy if someone got helped by my method, never said that this is the way to do it."

                                Surely we need open experience discussions. Moderation and giving people credit rather than aggression, insults or put downs. Surely people are free to read inputs and make their decisions on any point of view or experience.

                                TOPCAT
                                I must nevertheless congratulate you on setting up and running a very informative forum. I personally have been aided considerably.
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                                  #17
                                  Re: My way to recap

                                  Originally posted by davmax
                                  Topcat I have no argument with your method that you have used so well. I just found working on both sides of the board difficult.
                                  First of all, you don't use the pick from both sides of the board, it's done solely from the back, leaving the front mess-free. I couldn't even imagine trying to heat one side and poke the pick through the other. That would be a nightmare, and is definitely not how it's done.


                                  Originally posted by davmax
                                  2. I do own a solder sucker that does not drop flakes etc. Because there is obviously much experience behind what you say and my solder sucker is getting close to a useby date, I went and bought an equivalent and discovered why solder flakes do and do not occur.
                                  On top of the flakes and boogers, there are also other dangers of mechanical solder suckers. They're spring loaded, which causes recoil. The expected happens then the tip impacts the board in delicate areas, such as on traces or surface mount components. I've seen solder suckers destroy far more boards from impact damage than flake droppings.

                                  Yes, I will still maintain my statement that drilling a mainboard is dumb. There is absolutely no need for it. If one can afford the precision drills required to properly drill a multi layer PCB, they can afford a pneumatic solder sucker or a stainless pick. I certainly can not tell someone how to recap their board. However, I don't want dangerous practices condoned here. I've been in this field well over a decade, and have seen my share of "do it yourselfers" destruction and the methods that lead to it. I certainly won't moderate or delete this thread discussing drilling (nor will my moderators). I feel as you do, and people should see all the options, weigh the pro's and con's, and be able to make an educated decision, that's what a forum is all about.

                                  Originally posted by davmax
                                  TOPCAT
                                  I must nevertheless congratulate you on setting up and running a very informative forum. I personally have been aided considerably.
                                  Thanks, glad to have you here.
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                                    #18
                                    Re: My way to recap

                                    TOPCAT. Thanks for getting me correct on your pick method. I obviously misread something.

                                    I guess that enough has been said about drilling and solder suckers. I just used the gear that I am used to and was extremely successful with my first two motherboards overcoming the shock problems etc. You are at least more informed of the methods used. It is different.
                                    Because I design and manufacture PCB assemblies in small quantities the need to desolder is occassional and investment minimal.

                                    I noted that my new solder sucker has an internal spring that would really contribute to the production of flakes etc.

                                    Well thanks again for your exchange.
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                                      #19
                                      Re: My way to recap

                                      Topcat. I thought that I had misread parts of the forum re hole cleaning. On checking apparently I did not. It seems that some editing is required to have everything right to avoid confusion.

                                      You are adamant about not using solder suckers, yet your own instructions (section 4) quotes the use of a solder sucker on the front of the board.
                                      The instructions by Willawake include pushing the pick from the front side of the board.

                                      The matter is further confused by your response to my statement that I found it difficult working on both sides of the board, meaning pick and solder sucker on front side and soldering iron on back side, as deduced from the instructions quoted above. I have prevoiously stated that I found working on the back side with all tools much easier.

                                      Your response
                                      First of all, you don't use the pick from both sides of the board, it's done solely from the back, leaving the front mess-free. I couldn't even imagine trying to heat one side and poke the pick through the other. That would be a nightmare, and is definitely not how it's done.

                                      This seems to contradict the instruction in the forum.

                                      I have managed to complete my objectives but it would seem a good idea to get the instructions deconfused. Hoping this will enable improvement for those who follow.
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                                        #20
                                        Re: My way to recap


                                        that writeup is over 5 years old, it was referenced to a pneumatic, not a mechanical. it definitely needs to be revised, but unfortunately, I have a life that doesn't leave me much time to sit and make writeups anymore. however, working a pick on one side of the board and the iron on the other is hard. Its not with a solder sucker though, if you can walk and chew gum at the same time, you can use a solder sucker on one side and an iron on the other.
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