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Old 01-31-2020, 08:16 PM   #41
Curious.George
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Default Re: What TRULY Renders an Operating System Obsolete?

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well to be fair, that was a command-line system and if it had a GUI it was probably similar to GEM on the atari st.
Sure. OTOH, I was running X under SysV on a 2MB OPUS coprocessor with a 40MB disk in the mid 80's (the PC acting as a fancy "I/O controller" to manage the disk and VGA display)
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Old 02-01-2020, 11:38 AM   #42
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Default Re: What TRULY Renders an Operating System Obsolete?

dont get me wrong, modern coding practices are shit - object-oriented lego bloat!

i had a bootable floppy once with the o.s. AND a functioning web browser on it.
it was a demo from VX-Works.

personally i learned to program in machine-code with a hex editor (6502)
followed by learning to program pic's using assembly.
then 68000 assembly.

i cant stand all this multi-gB IDE shit with blated abstract languages we have now!
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Old 02-01-2020, 11:44 AM   #43
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Default Re: What TRULY Renders an Operating System Obsolete?

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dont get me wrong, modern coding practices are shit - object-oriented lego bloat!
It's not just OOPS that leads to bloat. Much of it comes from trying to leverage existing "packages" to provide some feature or capability. These invariably have lots of extra cruft to cover uses that your application likely won't need.

Quote:
i had a bootable floppy once with the o.s. AND a functioning web browser on it.
it was a demo from VX-Works.
QNX had a similar offering.

Quote:
personally i learned to program in machine-code with a hex editor (6502)
followed by learning to program pic's using assembly.
then 68000 assembly.

i cant stand all this multi-gB IDE shit with blated abstract languages we have now!
The trend is to insulate the developer ("programmer") from the mistakes that he is likely to make -- instead of educating him on how NOT to make those mistakes in the first place! It's equivalent to giving a child "blunt tipped" scissors -- out of fear he might hurt himself with "real" scissors -- instead of just teaching him how to use the real scissors properly/safely.

Imagine having to cut your steak with a butter knife to protect you from injuring yourself with a real, SHARP knife! (fine, if the world consisted solely of 2 year olds)
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Old 02-01-2020, 11:54 AM   #44
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Default Re: What TRULY Renders an Operating System Obsolete?

Speaking of obsolete OS's....I was given an Acer 720 Series Chromebook, which even google doesn't support anymore.... With some firmware hackery, I was able to install UEFI based Windows OS's (W8 or newer).... I threw W8.1 on it, but it wouldn't activate with the DAZ loader because of the UEFI partitioning, and it's not worth buying a license for....so Linux Mint runs quite nice on it....and modern browser support = revived system. Worthless, but revived....as a matter of fact, this post created from it. Dual core celeron, 2gb RAM and a 16gb SSD. None of which are upgradeable....
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Old 02-01-2020, 12:29 PM   #45
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Default Re: What TRULY Renders an Operating System Obsolete?

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Imagine having to cut your steak with a butter knife
that's the future for the u.k. unless there is a violent revolution soon!
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Old 02-01-2020, 01:51 PM   #46
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Default Re: What TRULY Renders an Operating System Obsolete?

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Speaking of obsolete OS's....I was given an Acer 720 Series Chromebook, which even google doesn't support anymore.... With some firmware hackery, I was able to install UEFI based Windows OS's (W8 or newer).... I threw W8.1 on it, but it wouldn't activate with the DAZ loader because of the UEFI partitioning, and it's not worth buying a license for....so Linux Mint runs quite nice on it....and modern browser support = revived system. Worthless, but revived....as a matter of fact, this post created from it. Dual core celeron, 2gb RAM and a 16gb SSD. None of which are upgradeable....
I use a rescued ASUS Eee PC 1000 with NetBSD 8.1 to, periodically, download "packages" for my *BSD boxen. Internal SSDs (I think there is one for the "system" and another for "scratch") are way too tiny -- the packages are many hundreds of GB. But, hang an external disk on it and it's a nice, safe way for me to grab all that stuff without having to involve a Windows machine!

(previously, I would drag out a SFF machine, keyboard, monitor, etc. What a PITA! The Eee PC has all that rolled into one -- and, it's *tiny* so I can store it in a desk drawer)
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:50 PM   #47
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Default Re: What TRULY Renders an Operating System Obsolete?

I have an interest in retro gaming and have two PCs that run Windows 98SE

One is a Core 2 Quad with AGP and a Geforce 4ti 4200 which I use to 'max out' the settings on Win 98 games

The other is a period correct Super Socket 7 machine with K6 CPU, ISA Sound Blaster AWE 32 and a Geforce 2 AGP (that I want to upgrade to voodoo3) that can play games which will not run properly on faster hardware, and supports DOS games very well.

Seeing as both computers serve the purpose I intended them for, and indeed a later OS would not serve that purpose, then that would suggest the Win98SE OS is not obsolete.

Obsolesence to me, would be when something has no use, or something else serves that purpose vastly better.

Would we consider vinyl, or a turntable, obsolete (for music)?

Would we consider through hole components to be obsolete?

I would argue no in both cases.

Last edited by dicky96; 02-05-2020 at 12:54 PM..
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Old 02-05-2020, 05:03 PM   #48
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Default Re: What TRULY Renders an Operating System Obsolete?

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Seeing as both computers serve the purpose I intended them for, and indeed a later OS would not serve that purpose, then that would suggest the Win98SE OS is not obsolete.

Obsolesence to me, would be when something has no use, or something else serves that purpose vastly better.

Would we consider vinyl, or a turntable, obsolete (for music)?

Would we consider through hole components to be obsolete?

I would argue no in both cases.
Obsolete can mean many things. By your own (above) definition, don't digital media formats "serve the purpose vastly better" than vinyl? When was the last time you heard a "skip" in an MP3? Or, turntable rumble/wow/flutter? Or, encountered duplication losses? Or, allowed random access within a title? Or...

The obsolescence of an item that is no longer in use is likely not going to be questioned.

An item that is "losing favor" in its intended market/application domain is obsolescent and likely to become obsolete (e.g., thru-hole components as cost and size increasingly favor SMT devices).

[You can probably find a cache of DTL somewhere that likely still works... but, would you consider it NOT obsolete?]

If I have an old cell phone that can't get service (3G and earlier) -- but it keeps great time! -- is it "obsolete"? Obsolete as a phone? Obsolete as a clock?

I think a better definition of obsolete is "when something can no longer be kept operational". What will you do when your games can't find suitable hardware to host/emulate them? Clearly, the software and OS still are operational (the code hasn't changed); there's just no platform available on which they can be made to operate!
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Old 02-11-2020, 04:56 AM   #49
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Default Re: What TRULY Renders an Operating System Obsolete?

And yet new vinyl is still being produced today (not only for dance music which has always been played by DJs on vinyl) and in fact you pay a premium for it over a digital media.

Indeed the demand for vinyl has increased greatly (ergo it's "gaining in favour") over the last couple of years so how does that tie in with it's apparent obsolescence?

I do agree the use of old OS like Windows 98SE and even DOS6.22 is basically to support the interest in retro gaming and retro hardware, but yet again the retro gaming scene has increased in popularity over the last few years, as is witnessed by the eye watering prices that are being asked for some old hardware these days - eg Super socket 7 motherboards, K6-III+ CPUs ,early graphics cards (Geforce 256 3D blaster, voodoo 2,3 and 5 etc) and old computers like the Amiga 1200. I have an old 386DLC40 PC in working order myself. I found it in a skip (dumpster) and it is worth a considerable amount of money.

Again these items are apparently gaining favour of late - and gaining in value too

Keep your phone for 20-30 years - it may be valuable by then

Last edited by dicky96; 02-11-2020 at 04:57 AM..
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:51 PM   #50
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Default Re: What TRULY Renders an Operating System Obsolete?

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Originally Posted by dicky96 View Post
And yet new vinyl is still being produced today (not only for dance music which has always been played by DJs on vinyl) and in fact you pay a premium for it over a digital media.

Indeed the demand for vinyl has increased greatly (ergo it's "gaining in favour") over the last couple of years so how does that tie in with it's apparent obsolescence?

I do agree the use of old OS like Windows 98SE and even DOS6.22 is basically to support the interest in retro gaming and retro hardware, but yet again the retro gaming scene has increased in popularity over the last few years, as is witnessed by the eye watering prices that are being asked for some old hardware these days - eg Super socket 7 motherboards, K6-III+ CPUs ,early graphics cards (Geforce 256 3D blaster, voodoo 2,3 and 5 etc) and old computers like the Amiga 1200. I have an old 386DLC40 PC in working order myself. I found it in a skip (dumpster) and it is worth a considerable amount of money.

Again these items are apparently gaining favour of late - and gaining in value too

Keep your phone for 20-30 years - it may be valuable by then
I know its driving me nuts trying to find a decently priced voodoo 3, what really cracks me up is how the Chinese built some fake Geforce 2 MX400 but are really voodoo 3's and made the bios show up as a geforce 2, so fake geforces 2s and they ended be worth substantially more later for being a real voodoo...
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Old 02-11-2020, 02:27 PM   #51
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Default Re: What TRULY Renders an Operating System Obsolete?

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And yet new vinyl is still being produced today (not only for dance music which has always been played by DJs on vinyl) and in fact you pay a premium for it over a digital media.

Indeed the demand for vinyl has increased greatly (ergo it's "gaining in favour") over the last couple of years so how does that tie in with it's apparent obsolescence?
Demand has nothing to do with it. When something is SCARCE, then demand appears higher. How many LPs are actually *pressed* each year? Contrast with CDs? Digital downloads?

Why haven't we seen a whole lot of new "portable record players" introduced -- so you can take your vinyl with you while jogging? :>

Quote:
I do agree the use of old OS like Windows 98SE and even DOS6.22 is basically to support the interest in retro gaming and retro hardware, but yet again the retro gaming scene has increased in popularity over the last few years, as is witnessed by the eye watering prices that are being asked for some old hardware these days - eg Super socket 7 motherboards, K6-III+ CPUs ,early graphics cards (Geforce 256 3D blaster, voodoo 2,3 and 5 etc) and old computers like the Amiga 1200. I have an old 386DLC40 PC in working order myself. I found it in a skip (dumpster) and it is worth a considerable amount of money.
The Delorean was a dog of a car. Yet "classics" command a pretty penny, today. I have a 35yo vehicle that would sell for more than 10 times what I paid for it 35 years ago. But, its still a 35yo car -- and, if demand was so great, why hasn't it been reintroduced into production?? (ANS: people want the 35yo edition, not a modern IMPROVED version)
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