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    AC to Ground?

    OK, I'm not asking if this is a good idea ... cause I know it's not ... but I am curious ...

    IF you connect the supply side of an AC line to a circuit and the other side of the circuit to earth ground ... will it power up?

    #2
    Re: AC to Ground?

    it should, but it will trip any RCD or GFCI on the circuit.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: AC to Ground?

      Originally posted by EasyGoing1 View Post
      OK, I'm not asking if this is a good idea ... cause I know it's not ... but I am curious ...

      IF you connect the supply side of an AC line to a circuit and the other side of the circuit to earth ground ... will it power up?
      Originally posted by stj View Post
      it should, but it will trip any RCD or GFCI on the circuit.
      Yes, unless as stj stated the circuit has GFCI protection, however you will potentially make the entire ground circuit in the building "live" in the process (although current limited by the device, i.e. something like an LED lightbulb would only be a few mA, while something like an electric heater or toaster 10A+ which could give a nasty shock, anything that is metal and grounded could now potentially be "live", though current will take the path of least resistance so it depends on the distance the load is from the panel, and how conductive whoever touches it is if they would get a shock or not). In the US electrical system neutral and ground are bonded at the main panel, however ground is intended as a "safety" in the event of an electrical fault and should not be made used as a neutral and made "live" (even though a neutral isn't "hot" doesn't mean it does not have any current on it, if a device on the circuit is drawing current that current will be on the neutral (due to the "alternating" aspect of AC).
      Last edited by dmill89; 06-02-2021, 07:01 AM.

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        #4
        Re: AC to Ground?

        I wouldn’t advise it tbh, keep all mains stuff as it should be.
        Please Do Not PM My Page Asking For Help Badcaps Is The Place For Advise, Page Linked For Business Reasons Only. Anyone Doing So Will Be Banned Instantly !

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          #5
          Re: AC to Ground?

          Originally posted by EasyGoing1 View Post
          OK, I'm not asking if this is a good idea ... cause I know it's not ... but I am curious ...

          IF you connect the supply side of an AC line to a circuit and the other side of the circuit to earth ground ... will it power up?
          The only reason why you would do this is if you are testing a grounding rod for a machine or if you are using a grounding rod at your house but make sure that you do not have a GFCI circuit or outlet while doing this test you will trip it if it is working correctly

          Use caution while doing this test if you have not done this test before

          This test is done with a 100 watt incandescent light bulb which should light up at full brightness if you have a good grounding rod connection
          Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 06-02-2021, 02:55 PM.
          9 PC LCD Monitor
          6 LCD Flat Screen TV
          30 Desk Top Switching Power Supply
          10 Battery Charger Switching Power Supply for Power Tool
          6 18v Lithium Battery Power Boards for Tool Battery Packs
          1 XBox 360 Switching Power Supply and M Board
          25 Servo Drives 220/460 3 Phase
          6 De-soldering Station Switching Power Supply 1 Power Supply
          1 Dell Mother Board
          15 Computer Power Supply
          1 HP Printer Supply & Control Board * lighting finished it *


          These two repairs where found with a ESR meter...> Temp at 50*F then at 90*F the ESR reading more than 10%

          1 Over Head Crane Current Sensing Board ( VFD Failure Five Years Later )
          2 Hem Saw Computer Stack Board

          All of these had CAPs POOF
          All of the mosfet that are taken out by bad caps

          Comment


            #6
            Re: AC to Ground?

            If you're thinking about a way to save a wire, no, likely getting an equivalent good ground is unlikely and you'll end up with lots of different voltages around, generating ground loops...but yes with a proper ground it should work as it's "theoretically" equivalent, hence the electrocution danger and the need for isolation transformers where there's a risk of accidentally grounding a live wire through a human.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: AC to Ground?

              Originally posted by eccerr0r View Post
              If you're thinking about a way to save a wire
              My curiosity was purely academic.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: AC to Ground?

                it can be used at very low current - i use it to power neons in lamp switches.
                (find the switch in the dark. )

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: AC to Ground?

                  Originally posted by stj View Post
                  it can be used at very low current - i use it to power neons in lamp switches.
                  (find the switch in the dark. )
                  Have you ever stood under large high-power transmission lines with a fluorescent bulb tube (like what you often see in a garage) and held one end on the ground and watch it light up? It's ... interesting ...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: AC to Ground?

                    Originally posted by EasyGoing1 View Post
                    Have you ever stood under large high-power transmission lines with a fluorescent bulb tube (like what you often see in a garage) and held one end on the ground and watch it light up? It's ... interesting ...
                    This does not sound like something you would want to do very long microwave oven do the same thing so really can not be good for you in the long run
                    9 PC LCD Monitor
                    6 LCD Flat Screen TV
                    30 Desk Top Switching Power Supply
                    10 Battery Charger Switching Power Supply for Power Tool
                    6 18v Lithium Battery Power Boards for Tool Battery Packs
                    1 XBox 360 Switching Power Supply and M Board
                    25 Servo Drives 220/460 3 Phase
                    6 De-soldering Station Switching Power Supply 1 Power Supply
                    1 Dell Mother Board
                    15 Computer Power Supply
                    1 HP Printer Supply & Control Board * lighting finished it *


                    These two repairs where found with a ESR meter...> Temp at 50*F then at 90*F the ESR reading more than 10%

                    1 Over Head Crane Current Sensing Board ( VFD Failure Five Years Later )
                    2 Hem Saw Computer Stack Board

                    All of these had CAPs POOF
                    All of the mosfet that are taken out by bad caps

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: AC to Ground?

                      Originally posted by EasyGoing1 View Post
                      Have you ever stood under large high-power transmission lines with a fluorescent bulb tube (like what you often see in a garage) and held one end on the ground and watch it light up? It's ... interesting ...
                      seen it done - that's why you get cancer clusters under power lines and why the land is cheap.
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXxQKUPB0vs

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: AC to Ground?

                        Originally posted by sam_sam_sam View Post
                        This does not sound like something you would want to do very long microwave oven do the same thing so really can not be good for you in the long run
                        It was something I did once around 20 years ago.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: AC to Ground?

                          Originally posted by brethin
                          Your intresting things will get you or some killed. Asking questions when you should know better just shows how stupid you are. Go lick some 110v ac and tell us how it went for you, moron.
                          Never been electrocuted in the 50 years I've been on this planet.

                          Funny that you call me the idiot, yet I'm the one asking questions, and you're the one asserting that I do things I don't ever do ... Pretty hostile for someone who doesn't even know me ... your posts are VERY "Troll-ish" if you ask me.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: AC to Ground?

                            Originally posted by EasyGoing1 View Post
                            Never been electrocuted in the 50 years I've been on this planet.
                            that's lame - your not trying hard enough.
                            my best yet - 16KV from a 14inch crt anode!!!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: AC to Ground?

                              Not quite as good as a CRT anode, but I stuck my hand across a photoflash flash capacitor I thought was discharged... yow. "Test before touching" ...

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: AC to Ground?

                                Originally posted by stj View Post
                                that's lame - your not trying hard enough.
                                my best yet - 16KV from a 14inch crt anode!!!
                                That probably had a hell of a kick ... did you suffer any serious injuries?

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: AC to Ground?

                                  I was always careful around CRT's but car ignition coils on a 555 timer were such a blast.
                                  I connected one to a TV HV multiplier and was watching the arcs many inches, it must have been well over 150kV, full power lol, when the arc jumped to all the junk on my workbench. You know, nuts, bolts, tools, test leads, boards etc.
                                  It then arced onto a test lead that had one end dangling by my leg and through my jeans and nailed my leg. That hurt and was not at all expected. Keep your workbench clean lol.

                                  Running AC mains current to ground works but the safety is low.
                                  In North America, earth-ground and Neutral are bonded together in the electrical panel (service). So using Neutral as a GND, or GND as a Neutral can and does happen.
                                  There is of course a danger if that (panel) ground connection went high resistance or open-circuit, that all devices grounded to that would float up to shock levels, due to the leakage currents. This is why people flip out about it.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: AC to Ground?

                                    Originally posted by EasyGoing1 View Post
                                    That probably had a hell of a kick ... did you suffer any serious injuries?
                                    i hurt my back when it threw me into a worktop.
                                    i'v said before, it's not the voltage or current that kills people - it's the thing you get thrown against!

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Re: AC to Ground?

                                      Originally posted by stj View Post
                                      i hurt my back when it threw me into a worktop.
                                      i'v said before, it's not the voltage or current that kills people - it's the thing you get thrown against!
                                      So I remember back in school, we were told that if you see someone being electrocuted by standard home electricity, you were supposed to grab a piece of wood and knock them away from the source ... the wood part makes perfect sense, but what's the deal with someone holding on to the wire or whatever is feeding them current? Is it normal that people hold on when - for example, they accidentally grab a live wire with their bare hands? Why wouldn't it knock them back like what happened to you with the CRT? And is that a reflex that is more common with AC vs DC?

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: AC to Ground?

                                        Electricity affects the human body a few different ways. A sine-wave is different than DC or pulsed DC, to both the nerves and muscles.
                                        Nerves will get activated- a tingle, all the way leading up to pain receptors being activated, which triggers a reflex to pull away.
                                        At higher voltages, muscles will turn on to varying degrees depending on the voltage, frequency.
                                        High voltage mains 50/60Hz AC shocks, the muscles just turn on and you can't move or let go. This commonly kills people.

                                        For the physiotherapy electrical muscle stimulators, they are optimized pulsing waveforms that activate a muscle but not the pain receptors. A narrow few kHz DC pulse train but AC coupled through a capacitor, this turns on muscles.

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