Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

[holmes222]

found this psu in old NEC MY28V/R-G case .. its ACBEL API4PC17 non-PFC rated @250w 110v (TFX based psu)
this been converted to 220v , use this psu to powering my ubuntu proxy machine
main caps : nippon chemi-con SMG
other caps are nippon chemi-con KY, rubcon YXA,YXH
fan made by protechnic MGA8012HB-A25
i get this case with psu included for about 5$ here and the local shop have plenty stock

[Pentium4]

^ Looks good! Love those copper heatsinks

So right here might just be the only reliable Logisys PSU on planet earth? I was surprised to see this in a customers computer. I got to keep it and recapped it

It was 80 Plus certified, but I have doubts it can actually do 750W. I could be wrong though. Those heatsinks just don't look good enough unless that fan was really moving air. I think most of the parts seem capable though.

It's got good input filtering. 5 Y caps, 3 0.22µF X caps, 2 coils, but no MOV

PFC cap is Panasonic CE 390µF 400V

Bridge rectifier is on the heatsink and rated for 15A

PFC FET is Infineon 24N60C3 (TO-247) rated for 24.3A @ 25C and 15.4A @ 100C

PFC Diode is MOSPEC U15A60 (15A)

Switching FETs are Infineon 20N60C3's rated for 20.7A @ 25C and 13.1A @ 100C

Primary IC is a Fairchild BH0170

Secondary silicon:
3.3V = STPS40L45CW
5V = STPS40L45CW
12V = Two S40D45CS's in parallel

Secondary IC is a Weltrend WT7502V

Fan spins well and has plenty of oil, looks like a differently styled BaoDiKai fan that are often found in Logisys PSU's. This kinda looks like a YueLin to me, but I'm not quite sure...Is it maybe Keerda like most Logisys?

Original caps were BH and GL. Really glad I recapped it, on the primary there was a 22µF GL cap physically touching a resistor AND the primary heatsink! Can't imagine it would have lasted a long time.

Does this look capable of 750W?

[goodpsusearch]

Can't say for sure.

62A * 12V = 744W for 12V. I don't think it can output those watts, just look at the main toroid coil. It depends on the fan control circuit. Is it one of those completely "silent fan" designs? Then, I am quite sure the coil will cook itself if someone asks those watts from it. I always mod that circuit when needed.

But, I think it can output 40A or more on 12V and that is great anyway. I would keep it.

[Pentium4]

Yeah, the main toroid isn't small, but doesn't look good for 750W. Just to give you an idea cause it's hard to tell from the pics, the coil is 40mm tall, 15mm wide, 40mm length. At idle, the fan spins very slow. I loaded it up to 275W and the fan revved up a noticeable amount after about 30 seconds.

[goodpsusearch]

Put it in the most energy consuming PC you can set up (I use a Pentium D 2.66 with dynamic overclocking up to 3.2GHZ & gforce 7600 gt), disable PC case fans and let it run like that for 40minutes. Check periodically with your hand the air that comes out of the psu. Then, stop the PC and immediately put out psu and touch the secondary heatsink (NOT THE PRIMARY!) and the toroid coils. If they are too hot to touch for even a fraction of a second, I doubt it will be able to do its full rating for more than a couple of minutes..

[c_hegge]

Those switchers would be capable of 750W. The Dell H750P-00 uses the same switches on an even smaller primary heat sink, and managed 900W on the load tester. But yeah, the secondary side could be a problem. Logisys have also been known to use fake 80plus badges on their PSUs.

[Pentium4]

Originally Posted by goodpsusearch

Put it in the most energy consuming PC you can set up (I use a Pentium D 2.66 with dynamic overclocking up to 3.2GHZ & gforce 7600 gt), disable PC case fans and let it run like that for 40minutes. Check periodically with your hand the air that comes out of the psu. Then, stop the PC and immediately put out psu and touch the secondary heatsink (NOT THE PRIMARY!) and the toroid coils. If they are too hot to touch for even a fraction of a second, I doubt it will be able to do its full rating for more than a couple of minutes..

Will do. I have a Prescott P4 and a 8800 GTS OC

Originally Posted by c_hegge

Those switchers would be capable of 750W. The Dell H750P-00 uses the same switches on an even smaller primary heat sink, and managed 900W on the load tester. But yeah, the secondary side could be a problem. Logisys have also been known to use fake 80plus badges on their PSUs.

I thought so too about the fake 80 Plus but it looks legitimate: http://www.plugloadsolutions.com/psu...50W_Report.pdf

[Behemot]

If it is truly certified, than it has to provide the power - they load it up to 100 %. Well, at least the units they obtain for certification

[lti]

It may be a real an 80 Plus Bronze rated 750W PSU, but there are only two crappy caps on each rail for filtering. I don't see any pi filter inductors. I don't think the ripple will be very low.

[Pentium4]

Originally Posted by Behemot

Well, at least the units they obtain for certification

Good point See your caps there on the 12V rail?

Originally Posted by lti

It may be a real an 80 Plus Bronze rated 750W PSU, but there are only two crappy caps on each rail for filtering. I don't see any pi filter inductors. I don't think the ripple will be very low.

Yeah, forgot to mention that but you can easily see in the pictures...At least it's double forward so the design creates less ripple than half bridge, but you're probably right. Not worried about the minor rails, but those two caps for the 12V are 3300µF. On some of c_hegge's reviews, a low end half bridge unit kept ripple in spec up to 250W with a single filtering cap and no PI filter, so I imagine with this newer design and two caps, I'd expect ripple to be in spec at least up to 500W. Wouldn't really want to go higher continuously anyways. Wish I had a load tester

[momaka]

Originally Posted by Pentium4

Does this look capable of 750W?

For a fraction of a second before the fuse blows... maybe

I think goodpsusearch and lti mentioned some good points.
Without the pi coils, I don't think you can go too high. Maybe 500W like you said, or maybe less (but not more). Also, I don't know if it's the picture or not, but the wires on that secondary torroid don't look that thick. The torroid itself looks big enoughm though.
And finally, with just a single S40D45CS, the 12V rail will be (safely) capable of probably no more than 30 to 35A. So with two in parallel, it might be able to deliver up to 45A, but I wouldn't push it that far. Ripple at that point will probably start to dance around quite a bit too.

But other than that, it looks good. I think it will power a high-end system just fine as long as you have only one graphics card. And for a free-bee, it's definitely a nice score!

[Behemot]

Have you even noticed it is 80 PLUS Bronze certfied? You guys are sometimes frozen back in middle 90s when 400W PSUs had shitload of components inside and weighted like a ton. Nowadays PSUs do 1000 watts with barely any components in there, I have seen ATNG (or something similar)-made PSU which judged by you would barely make 400 watts, it did 650 or something and had 80 PLUS Bronze certification. OFC, you cannot run that at 100% capacity for years but weeks or months woud be OK. Not any „fraction of a second“ or another BS of yours.

They had to provide at least two units for testing and pay not really small fees, do you think they sent different units for that just to obtain the certification and paid the fees? That's just insane. I have been dealing with one company around, they will never pay the amount required for licensing and neither will do any other manufacturer. They may be selling cheap crap by milions but also have tiny income per unit, they won't sell that much extra units having the sticker on to justify the money for licensing.

Just my 2 cents cause whats enough is enough, sometimes I have the feeling anything is crap cause it will burn for sure according to you. Open your eyes, it's not always that case.

[370forlife]

Originally Posted by Pentium4

^ Looks good! Love those copper heatsinks

So right here might just be the only reliable Logisys PSU on planet earth? I was surprised to see this in a customers computer. I got to keep it and recapped it

It was 80 Plus certified, but I have doubts it can actually do 750W. I could be wrong though. Those heatsinks just don't look good enough unless that fan was really moving air. I think most of the parts seem capable though.

It's got good input filtering. 5 Y caps, 3 0.22µF X caps, 2 coils, but no MOV

PFC cap is Panasonic CE 390µF 400V

Bridge rectifier is on the heatsink and rated for 15A

PFC FET is Infineon 24N60C3 (TO-247) rated for 24.3A @ 25C and 15.4A @ 100C

PFC Diode is MOSPEC U15A60 (15A)

Switching FETs are Infineon 20N60C3's rated for 20.7A @ 25C and 13.1A @ 100C

Primary IC is a Fairchild BH0170

Secondary silicon:
3.3V = STPS40L45CW
5V = STPS40L45CW
12V = Two S40D45CS's in parallel

Secondary IC is a Weltrend WT7502V

Fan spins well and has plenty of oil, looks like a differently styled BaoDiKai fan that are often found in Logisys PSU's. This kinda looks like a YueLin to me, but I'm not quite sure...Is it maybe Keerda like most Logisys?

Original caps were BH and GL. Really glad I recapped it, on the primary there was a 22µF GL cap physically touching a resistor AND the primary heatsink! Can't imagine it would have lasted a long time.

Does this look capable of 750W?

LYP part number = LongYi Power. LongYi made a lot of the cheaper Coolmax units. They are good at ripping off Delta and Hipro designs, and screwing them up a bit in the process.

[ratdude747]

Originally Posted by holmes222

found this psu in old NEC MY28V/R-G case .. its ACBEL API4PC17 non-PFC rated @250w 110v (TFX based psu)
this been converted to 220v , use this psu to powering my ubuntu proxy machine
main caps : nippon chemi-con SMG
other caps are nippon chemi-con KY, rubcon YXA,YXH
fan made by protechnic MGA8012HB-A25
i get this case with psu included for about 5$ here and the local shop have plenty stock

AcBel makes some pretty legit PSU's... And unlike some, this one has good caps. Great score.

[momaka]

Originally Posted by Behemot

You guys are sometimes frozen back in middle 90s when 400W PSUs had shitload of components inside and weighted like a ton.

Sorry. I'm just spoiled by those older 250W HiPro, Delta, Newton, and LiteON units, which now I can get ay my local Micro Center for $5 each. Yeah, they may do 300W or 350W fine... But they weren't labeled that way - and for a good reason so that damn thing lasts.

Originally Posted by Behemot

OFC, you cannot run that at 100% capacity for years but weeks or months woud be OK.

That, I don't like there. If I build something, I want it to last and not have to touch it, even if stressed at or near 100% capacity. Those HiPros are an example of that. I've worked with enough OEM PCs to stand by that. Yes, I am in the stone ages, sorry .

Originally Posted by Behemot

Have you even noticed it is 80 PLUS Bronze certfied?

Yet they can't be bothered to get a UL or CSA certification . Hmmm, ain't that strange now? Heck, even the other certifications look forged to me. But who cares, it's 80 PLUS Bronze .

Originally Posted by Behemot

I have the feeling anything is crap cause it will burn for sure according to you. Open your eyes, it's not always that case.

Hey come on, I wasn't that negative with my post above.

Just said you can't expect to pull 62A from it on the 12V rail. Not long term anyways.
Now on a serious note - okay I agree with you somewhat.... if that 80+ cert is real and they really paid to get it, then maybe this PSU is alright. But to me, it just looks like things would be running on the edge if you were to load things to the max according to the label.

[Behemot]

I am not saying it is anything wonderfull, I wouldn't touch it without protecting gloves, but it's not crap which will set your balls on fire either.

[Dan81]

Okay.....I've got a Delux ATX-400W P4 PSU.
I have two questions about it:
1.ALL,I mean ALL voltages are in their ranges,even if caps are CapXon.How does that happen?None of those caps are bulged.
2.How long do those CapXon caps last?It's been 1 year since I have this PSU.(I had to move this PSU's innards in a new case (Codegen 350W) )

[Agent24]

Originally Posted by Dan81

Okay.....I've got a Delux ATX-400W P4 PSU.
I have two questions about it:
1.ALL,I mean ALL voltages are in their ranges,even if caps are CapXon.How does that happen?None of those caps are bulged.
2.How long do those CapXon caps last?It's been 1 year since I have this PSU.(I had to move this PSU's innards in a new case (Codegen 350W) )

Even bad quality capacitors like CapXon work fine when they are new. The problem is they just don't last very long.

Measuring voltages does not give much information aside from serious problems. When the capacitors are beginning to fail you would notice increased noise\ripple if you looked at the output with an oscilloscope. You will NOT normally notice anything obviously wrong if you just measure with a digital multimeter or look at voltage readings in BIOS or with software.

Voltmeter and BIOS readings don't update fast enough to be of much use. The noise and ripple you need to measure is in kHz range.

By the time the voltage readings go out of whack, the PSU and its capacitors are seriously sick.


If your PSU has not been loaded much, has been kept cool, and is after all, only 1 year old, it's not really a surprise that even some CapXon may still be OK.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about how long they are going to last, I'd rip them out and replace them before they had a chance to fail. But depending on the PSU, it may not be worth it. IIRC the last Delux PSU I was not exactly what you would call high quality.

[Dan81]

It sees light use (3 hours max)so maybe that's why.
System it runs is a Celeron D 330,so not that power hungry considering the motherboard in there doesn't use the 12V 4 pin plug.

However my main PC uses a Delux ATX-450W PSU that is 6 years old.
This one has some caps marked with the Saturn planet and a S on them (what brand is this?),and they have black tops.I came across those caps on a old AT PSU too.
So far I had to replace just the motherboad because of a bad BIOS flash.Is it me or this one can last longer?
I only had to replace the fan so far,because the fan that came with it was on its last legs.Now it runs fine,without a problem.
This one,unlike the 400W PSU,is used 6 hours daylight and 7 hours night.
Also,I seen somewhere on this forum that fan controllers make the PSU overheat.Is this true?

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Is it the one with the green label? If so... i'd throw it away. It has a cheap fan that will wear out and no protection circuitry. Depending on your luck, it'll either fail gracefully due to capacitors gone bad, or it'll melt a trace and blow up everything connected to +5V and +3.3v.

Not fun. Seen one where the 12v went open circuit, and 5v went to 8.3v, 3.3v to 7.5v. Needless to say the motherboard and the hard drives didn't make it.